'The mention of my child's name may bring tears to my eyes, but it never fails to bring music to my ears' - bereaved parents thread.

[DawnOfTheDeementedDead]

'PLEASE SAY THEIR NAMES'

The time of concern is over. No longer are we asked how we're doing. Never are the names of our children mentioned to us. A curtain descends. The moment has passed. Life's slip from frequent recall. There are exceptions: close and compassionate friends, sensitive and loving family. Still look. Still ask. Still listen. Thank God for them. For most, the drama is over. The spotlight is off. Applause is silent.

But for us the play will never end. The effects on us are timeless. What can be said, you ask? Please say "their names" to us. Love does not die. Their names are written on our lives. You may feel that they are dead. We feel that they are of the dead and still they live. They ghost-walk our souls, beckoning in future welcome. You say, "They were our children"; we say "They are". Please say "their names" to us and say "their names" again. It hurts to bury their memory in silence. What they were in flesh is no longer with us. What they are in spirit stays within us always. They were of our past but they are part of our now. They are our hope for the future. Please understand we cannot forget. We would not if we could.

We know that you cannot know, yesterday we were like you. Understand that we dwell in both flesh and spirit. We do not ask you to walk this road. The ascent is steep and the burden heavy. We walk it not by choice. We would rather walk it with them in the flesh, looking not to spirit worlds beyond. We are what we have to be. What we have lost, you cannot feel. What we have gained you may not see. Please say " their names" for they are alive. We will meet them again, although in many ways we've never parted. Their spirits play light songs, appear in sunrises and sunsets. They are real and shadow, they were and they are.

Please say "their names" to us and say "their names" again.
They are our children and we love them as we always did.
More each day.

'PLEASE, SAY THEIR NAMES'

In memory of my darling forever-baby Ciaran. I loved you from the moment i saw those two pink lines, and i'll love you til i draw my last breath as a wizened old woman of 103. You taught me what it was to truly love, and although you could only stay such a short time, you made me a better person and my world a better place. I'm so glad to have known you.

Oh God Dee. I am so sorry for your friend and her lovely boy.

May I offload a wee bit?

I'm tired and angry today. angry at myself, MrAz and his parents. I've spent the weekend in hiding from his son (age 3) and his parents who have been over from abroad.

The day before Charlie's funeral they had SS over for the whole day. Apparently to make everyone feel better. Never mind my poor parents who had just seen their grandchild in the chapel of rest. And now i have to make as though Charlie never existed for the benefit of MrAzs mother who "cant possibly be upset".

When Charlie was alive they were never that bothered about him anyway. i have to give up my house for four days out of every month so that they can demonstrate how much they love ss without ever mentioning Charlie once.

The worst thing is that I find myself resenting a poor little 3 year old boy who has no idea of the maelstrom that he is the centre of. I am such a bitch. I love him dearly but I wish that I could just be given some time with him to relate to him on my own terms. As it is I have to wait till they're gone for me to have a snuggle with him and tell him how much I love him. I still feel like talking about his half brother is off limits.

Charlie was my baby. He was wonderful. Why the hell do I have to respect the people that invade my house without invitation every month, who don't give a toss about me or my child but question me, my cooking, my way of life, every minute they are here?

Aggravated of Hornchurch (and with massive amounts of love to all).

Gaaah. x

Azir I know what you are talking about.

My MIL and stepFIL were a disgrace when we lost our children. MIL told everybody she thought I was on drugs because I talked about them all the time, had their pictures everywhere and SHOCK HORROR still put their Xmas stockings (with their names on) on the fireplace with everybody elses. Selfish nasty sod that she was. You should carry on the cuddles with SS - in time you will be able to talk about Charlie with him....he will become curious. When you do talk to him DONT even mention your inlaws views.....dont bring yourself down to their level. Family are bloody hard work sometimes - aren't they? xx

Oh shabs you are a godsend. It just makes me so angry how they take over my spare room with an excess of toys (far more than me or my brother had between us at his age) because every day is Christmas - how am I supposed to give ss a lovely present at Xmas when he expects 4x that every other weekend? It makes me terribly sad for ss too. I feel like such a cow for resenting him. He's 3 years old for God's sake. xx

Morning girls xx

Morning ladies xx

I think that small children need love more than toys Azira. Don't go down their road and try to compete he will know you love him if you give him your love and attention. You don't really resent him you are just going through the worst possible time that anyone can have. I think you are brilliant just for putting up with them. Why don't you just put him in his pushchair and take him to the park maybe and have a bit of fun time with just you and him. Just do it, then they may take you seriously. You are a mum and know what toddlers need. They sound like bullies to me. xx

That is horrific Dee for a young boy to take his own life. My stepgrandson is 13.It is so difficult to work out what he is thinking, teenagers are so 'complicated'. I really can't imagine what the parents are going through. Life is really cruel. xx

Morning all.

Just a little chink of light to share, not to detract from the sadness, but something to make us feel that there are good things happening... A wonderful friend is finally going to propose to his girlfriend, in part because of Mia, as he has realised how important love and family are, and how important it is to most the most of life.

Oh that is lovely. xxx

Morning all x

Miasmummy what a wonderful tribute to Mia. I do think this awful time we are all going through puts everything in to perspective. It's certainly made me realise what is important in life.

Everlong hugs. I thought of you when Dee posted last night. Hugs xx

Everlong, i'm so sorry if my post upset you - i didn't think, i'm sorry.

No news as yet, but i'll ring my friend later and see how they are all doing. And send them all our love.

Yesterday was a day for it - we also found out Manshapes great aunt had died - she'd fallen down the stairs, and her son found her. She was 79.

Such a sad day for everyone.

Not especially, Everlong, but his nan, her sister is absolutely distraught, and he's sad for her, iyswim?

Afternoon ladies. Lots of bad news at the moment.

Oh dear, lots of bad news today.
How awful for a young boy to feel that unhappy, and his poor brother, how on earth does anyone cope with that? I have just been listening to radio 2 and Jeremy Vine was talking about suicide. It is so sad that people feel that there is no hope of help.

My uncle's dsd commited suicide a few years ago. She was 17. She wrote a note saying that she was ugly, fat and stupid. She was none of those things, had in fact lost loads of weight and was very pretty. Sometimes to teenagers, problems seem insurmountable, particularly as they tend to stop communicating with their parents so we have no way of knowing what's going on inside their heads.

Hi everyone, such sad news that poor boy and his family. My eldest is nearly 17 now but those early teen years, watching him trying to fit in and all those emotions they go through can be such a difficult time for them.

azira how awful for you having to share your house with people you can't even talk about Charlie infront of as it might upset them!

Well tomorrow I have an appointment at baby group with ds3, it came through the post the other day and has been arranged by the health visitor who thinks I need to get out abit.

Obviously there will be baby's there. Probably very young baby's , I haven't been near a new born yet and feel abit nervous about how I will react.

I probably won't know anyone at the group, what if they ask me questions like how many children do I have, how old are they. I don't know what to say.
I don't want to say 3, I have 4 children, I don't want to make other people uncomfortable though.

Why am I so worried about upsetting other people.

Moomins, could you say, "I have three living children"? I think that's what I am going to say ( except with me, it's four)

I am going to see SIL's new baby girl tomorrow. Hope I can do it without breaking down.

For me, the words that 'work' are - 'I have been lucky enough to have four wonderful sons.' Then, depending on who I am talking to, how I am feeling...and sometimes even what the weather is like - I MAY go further with the story xx

I think that's probably a good idea, to just say I have 3 children just feels wrong some how.

Hope seeing sils baby isn't too upsetting for you chip It just seems there are so many things you can't avoid doing when you loose a child that cause pain. I should be 30 weeks now and ds3 was born at 32.

Chip and Moomins - good luck with the newborns. When I went a saw my friends newborn a few weeks ago it really wasn't as bad as I thought. I was actually relieved after I did it strangely. I did however feel really really guilty afterwards that Erin wasn't the last baby I held so I went straight to her grave afterwards.

Got stopped by a market research lady in the street today. One of the questions was how many children do you have. So I answered confidently 2. Next question what ages are your children. I was flummoxed and mumbled 4 and 2!!! I have no idea why I just panicked

Afternoon all. My nan commited suicide when I was a teen, my Dad was so upset over it all. She did leave a nite but I've never had a chance to read it. I don't want to upset him by asking but I'll see it one day. I think I was 16/17 at the time, I remember it being not long after my other nan died.

dee sorry to hear more bad news :(

chip that por girl. I was going to say the same as you about teenagers, every problem seems huge, I felt the same way myself at that age. I was 18 when I tried to cut my wrists and still have the scars now at 33. I was desperately sad and really missed my nan. It wasn't until after that though that they even gave me anti-depressants which wasn't exactly helpful.

Moomin I was asked the other day at the checkout a few questions. The cashier was also pregnant and due christmas eve, I was dued dec 23rd with Scarlett :( She asked when I was due and if it was my first. I hesitated and just said I had 3 at home, without mentioning Scarlett, it was her first too so in a way I didn't want to worry her! Afterwards I felt really guilty for not mentioning Scarlett though, can't win. I hope it goes ok for you x

Whatever I couldn't (and still can't properly) deal with seeing newborns for many months. It took months just to not have to walk in the other direction, just too difficult.

Bear hugs to all today. Not much to offer here, but listening and feeling.