37 weeks pregnant and found out yesterday that our baby has died

[CheeseandGherkins]

I'm still totally in shock, as is DH, our little girl has died. I hadn't felt movements since late on Wednesday and when I went in on Thursday they couldn't find a heartbeat with doppler. Sent straight for a scan and there was no heartbeat.

I already have 3 dcs who are so upset but it was DH's first baby.

I have to go in today, in a few hours, for a tablet to start things off but I can come home after an hour apparently and then go back 24 hours or so later (if nothing happens) to start inducement properly.

Does anyone have any experience of this? I'm scared of being induced, which sounds stupid under the circumstances but there it is. How long will it take? First 3 labours were fast, 3 and a half, 3 hours and just over an hour.

I still keep expecting to feel her move but of course she won't. Feels so surreal and that it can't be happening but it is. I was due on Dec 23rd.

I don't know what to do.

Cheese - you are amazing you know. You are coping with the loss of Scarlett, organising birthday parties and being very understanding and nice to your inlaws for your DH (the inlaws certainly don't deserve it!!). I'm glad you managed to get things on a more even keel with them for your & DH's sake - you did so well.

I'm glad the party went well, it sounds like they had loads of fun!

How are you all feeling (cold/health wise) now??

The photos are lovely. Your DH is a right cutie isn't he!! He looks lovely & cuddly too, the sort to make you feel loved and safe.

I hope you have some sunshine where you are, it's lovely and bright here. I find it helps a little.

itsnotgoingwelltoday - Thank you, I like hearing people say that about Scarlett, I think so too :) The party, hehe, I was up and down the stairs at the place we had it so many times escorting them to the toilet, mostly they didn't need to go just wanted to run up and down lol!

Lavita - Thanks too, appreciated. How are you and your two little ones? Hands full I expect? :)

Chipping - thanks :) I don't feel amazing at all, I feel like I'm failing all over the place lately, not sleeping that great and I don't think I've eaten anything at all today. My eating has got a bit bad again, really just don't feel like it at all.

I'm fine now, seem to be over the illness but dh and ds2 are ill! Dh is stubborn and doesn't want to go to the drs but he did say to me today that he might do as he's having a lot of trouble sleeping :( He's still not really spoken much to anyone about things so I don't think he's at the same point I am with dealing with grief. He's bottled it up a lot. Still think his brother should be there for him but hey, I could talk about that all night...you wouldn't believe the texts I've sent him just trying to get him to even reply to me and try and help dh and he's supposed to be the older one. Honestly, I feel bad even doing it, kind of like begging and I so just feel that I shouldn't have to and shouldn't need to and he rarely even dignifies me with a response. Seriously, I think once every 10 texts he'll say about 2 lines. I mailed the photos last night to him and sil too, doubt he'll say anything about those, she will though as she's lovely; she really is. I know and understand that he (bil) has issues and problems with things himself but, right now, he could do a little more I think. Sorry for the ranting but it's so hard. I just want us all to be a family and get on but when someone just ignores you it's hard to know what to do/say.

Dh makes me feel safer and more loved than anyone and yes he is a cutie :p I love him so, so much. He's feeling bad about himself lately though, keeps calling himself fat and ugly :( I told him that isn't true but he's also tryign to lose weight but with his health issues he can't really exercise as he can't walk afterwards (scar tissue in his leg from a few DVT's), and he doesn't eat too much either. He used to play rugby, do rowing etc before he became ill but then they put him on high dose steroids and other meds for a while and he put on about 5 stone in a couple of months as he also wasn't allowed to exercise. Has lupus too so that exacerbates things and he was lucky not to die from the pulmonary embolism he has as he was misdiagnosed and sent home at first!

I think we're due some luck? There is also more shit which I won't bore you with but my dad's quite ill too, and more but like I said, too much!

It was lovely today, I find the sun helps too, I'd love it to be sunny every day; cold or not, the sun helps so much.

Thanks for talking with me, this really has helped me so much, being able to say how I feel. I'm not good at talking face to face, in fact I'm really bad at it so if it weren't for this I'd be pretty bad I think.

Hi cheese, i am up as cant sleep so i thought id say hi,i have been watching your thread since Scarlet was born but didnt have anything usefull to say but didnt want you to be alone tonight.I have looked at the pictures and she realy was a pretty little girl wasnt she? It sounds as if you are doing as well as you can be and i really hope you do get the luck you deserve soon.My little brother was stil born 30 yrs ago,we have never forgotten him,i was 14 so it was a lot for me to take on,my Mumis ok but has never spoken openly about it,she went onto have my 2 sisters btw.I am on an ante/post natal thread at the mo and one of the girls has just lost her baby girl in similar to yours,she too is being very brave.It really must be the worst thing to have to face.Sending you lots of love.

c&g well done on the party. i bet the dc loved it.

Scarlett really is a little cutie. you must be very proud.

we're all good here, thanks for asking.

if you have other things going on in life that are getting you down, please talk about it. if not here somewhere else.

Hands very full, but we're all doing well thank you

I'm with you on the sun shining front, always makes me feel like getting up and doing something, going out for a nice walk, just sitting in the garden with a cup of tea. Daffodils are in the shops so Spring is on it's way.

You definitely deserve some luck, sorry to hear your dad is poorly and give your lovely man a big hug, you are both doing a fantastic job supporting each other, and the birthday party sounds lovely

I just need to post this before responding, had a message from sil today and she told me that bil was not even reading my messages or texts at all, just deleting them. Made me feel physically sick, it took a lot to send those words to him and to think he didn't even read. I don't know what to say anymore, I'm so upset right now and for dh as clearly that's not going to work either. I've tried so fucking hard and nothing, how can someone just ignore this? I just don't get it? Really? How? Only reason I've even tried is for dh, he's struggling and I think is depressed now, had noone to really talk to :( he won't to me as he doesn't want to upset me.

I don't know what else I can do :( I guess let go and it be nothing but then what about the family? Maybe i'm trying too hard, I'm so confused.

ledkr - she definitely was :) I'm so sorry to hear about your little brother and also about the lady on your antenatal thread, I never thought I'd be here in this position; not ever. I still find it astounding.

mumatron - they did love it, they loved the people taking them round the mission too, every time one of them went past us after they shouted out their name and said they were cool :o So glad you're OK, really and truely :)

Lavita - really pleased for you too :) Thanks, he'll always be bad as he's paralysed, has some arm movement but no hand, and I'm just scared he's going to die.

He's been unable to get out of bed as he has a bedsore for weeks/months now and had mrsa twice and another infection twice too. Was his birthday on Tues too and he's been stuck in bed for so long.

c&g i think you need to let it go for a while. you are not at fault in this situation. your bil is acting like a knob. i'd like to think a part of him ignoring you is guilt but some people are just crap. i think the best you can do is not give him anymore head space and be there for dh as much as you can.

don't forget yourself though. make sure you are getting as much support as poss. I get the feeling your too busy worrying about dh and not taking time for you.

if dh is depressed he needs to get professional help. have you thought of seeing a councillor?

mumatron - I don't know, I really don't, sil is speaking for him and she is lovely, but he gives nothing. I am worried about dh, he doesn't have what I do, I have the support here and with my family. Mine try with him but that's not the same is it?

I've been offered to see one but I don't thing I need to really, I'm feeling awful at times but that's just because of what happened I think/hope I'll be ok without. To be honest, I'm really bad talking face to face, that's why I vent here. I just can't do it. Makes me sound so crap, but I just can't. I pretend it's all ok and fine.

doesn't make you sound crap. it makes you sound human.

you are both going through one of the hardest things you'll ever have to face. your dh does need support from his family but you can't change them. you have tried to help the situation, but i think now is the time to take a step back. hopefully bil will see sense soon, but don't hold your breath.

ans stop pretending it's all fine. why should everything be fine? a shit thing happened and you are allowed to be angry and upset by it.

pretending that things are good wont make it go away. nobody expects you to be over it already.

keep talking here if you can't do it with someone in rl.

It isn't fine, of course it's not. Sometimes I need to pretend that it is. I feel like shit, I feel like I can't go on half the time but I do and I try. I just want Scarlett back but that can't ever happen so there's nothing that can be done about that. She's all I want right now

Cheese, I have posted before but have name changed. I just wanted you to know that I have not stopped thinking about you and Scarlett and your family and send you love. I cannot say anything to really help your broken heart but you are not alone this morning. Look after yourself sweetheart,

Thank you.

I still have baby clothes in the wardrobe and a snowsuit on the floor covered with my crap, I can't bring myself to deal with them.

Im tempted to say dont deal with scarletts stuff but I dont know if thats the best advice tbh.

Deal with it when your ready

C&G - so sorry to hear your BIL is still being such a cowardly knob. It really doesn't matter what his issues are - even if he had lost a baby in a similar way and it brought back terrible memories, you'd think he'd at least be able to sympathise. But he hasn't, has he - so what fucking excuse HAS he got? Not a good enough one, that's for damn sure.

Sorry for swearing - I just can't stand family that are so callous. I can't stand my brother at any price, but when his partner dumped him, I sent him an email saying "I'm here if you need to talk or anything" - of course I didn't hear back from him (he hates me too) but the point is that I made the effort because he's my brother. Mind you, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't do the same for me!

Anyway - enough of me.
Has anyone suggested going to Cruse? Bereavement counselling - it might benefit either/both of you, although of course there is SANDS as well, which is more appropriate and I am sure has already been suggested to you. Because it's specific counselling they might be able to help you put aside your "coping face" and let you get out how you are both really feeling, either separately or together. I think it would benefit your DH to realise how hard you are taking his brother's betrayal on his behalf, as well as give him a chance to tell someone objective about it.
My BIL is a PITA. But whenever I talk to DH about him (DH also thinks he is a PITA), there is an element of defensiveness from DH - I can't be as open as I would like to because it's his brother so he gets a bit partisan about it. I have to be even more careful with MIL of course. But DH and MIL can slag BIL off to their hearts' content, because he is their blood family (although DH goes further than MIL).

So perhaps, just perhaps, your DH would be able to tell a stranger more how hurt and betrayed he feels, because the stranger wouldn't immediately take sides against the brother, iyswim. I know it's a little convoluted but it's possible that strong support from you in this situation is pushing your DH into the defensive position. It's equally possible that it isn't, but by the sound of your DH's ambivalence about it, he wants to believe the best of his family.

I would also stop texting your BIL. It's obviously not working and is possibly counterproductive, so let it go. Perhaps tell your DH that you have no issue with him talking to his family but at the moment you would prefer to not have to deal with them, thank you.

Your pics of Scarlett are lovely - and I understand your reluctance to touch her entirely. I do.

In the meantime, have an unMNly (((hug))) because I'm sure you could do with one.

Hi Cheese

Don t know if you remember me??? I posted before i know exactly what you re going through as my DD was stillborn at 41 weeks on 10th October 2010.

With regards to your BIL it seems to go with the terriority we have had a lot of problems with my MIL since Georgie's death.She's always been selfish and me,me,me but she refused to contribute to Georgie's charity website [we raised over £1500 in lieu of the delivery suite staff] saying we should make her contribution in lieu of a "loan" my hubby had from her 25 years ago for his first car1!!! Over xmas she was ringing us up threatening to commit suicide saying no one loved her etc.....My husband was dealing with the loss of Georgie,taking care of me and had just started a new job with a 1 hour commute either way.All this culminated in a big row between me and her with Dh present.I have severed all contact with her and DH is fine with that.She manipulated and tok over Georgie's service to the notice of all 60 odd people that attended.She bought flowers for Georgie's coffin then took them home!!!!!

She sent my mum's blood pressure sky high.She added, not helped, to a truely awful situation.She brings nothing to us.My counsellor said "would you put up with this if she wasnt your mil???If she didn t have the title of MIL???"

I don t miss her and it hasn t caused any problems between me and dh he wishes we could get on but has witnessed her selfishness and spiteful ways and understands my reasons for having nothing more to do with her.I have Georgie to thank for that.

I had counselling via work and like you thought whats the point ???????it won t bring Georgie back but it has helped me with different perspectives and to find ways of living with the situation.Yes its shit i miss Georgie all the time, i still have a full wardrobe of her clothes in her room .they will stay ther till i m ready.However, Georgie's not here and will never be and i need to find ways to live again as i know thats what Georgie would have wanted.

I return to work next week, phasing in , which is the last piece of the jigsaw in repairing me.

Take care XXXX

Hi Cheese

I found this thread purely by accident and have spent the last hour reading every single post (I had to skip the poems as I wouldn't be able to see through the tears)

You are an extremely brave woman even if you don't feel like you are.
Just by sharing your awful experience, you will be able to help others that are going through something similar.

Keep taking one day at a time.

With reference to your BIL, I can not understand why he is ignoring you. You are meant to be there for your family and he clearly isn't.
I can't advise you of what you should do, I know what I would do!

Thinking of you, your Dh and Scarlett. Thank you for sharing the precious photos you have of your beautiful daughter, I love the way she is holding her hands, she looks so peaceful.

Mumatron I don't think I can yet anyway tbh, I'm still not sure whether to keep it to be used again if we ever had another daughter or not, I'm leaning towards keeping but I don't want it to seem morbid; if that makes sense.

thumb - I've thought a lot today, long and hard about things with bil and just trying to understand why/how he works. Mil said he cried when she told him what happened so he must care, the only thing I can think is that he just can't deal with it? I know that doesn't help me or dh but that's the only thing that makes sense to me if you see what I mean. He's lost his father (as did dh) when they were young, dh was about 8 or so and bil 5 yearsish older and also their nan. Bil doesn't have children and hasn't lost any. I'm trying to understand, that's what baffles me a lot of the time, that sometimes I kind of get it but I think I'm being generous; I don't know. I want to avoid conflict too but I'm aware the longer this goes on the harder it will be to rectify.

See I said the same thing to sil when first speaking to her, that he seemed callous, but she assured that he wasn't but just didn't know how to deal with it. He's like this with everyone, even her, according to her (which much be hellish) but he's been like it and been allowed to get away with it. Maybe that doesn't help either, he's just "like that", so it's OK, as that's what he's like. I guess it's a good way to reliquinsh responsibility for anything or your actions (or lack of).

Sorry about your brother, being ignored is hard isn't it? I find that harder than someone actually speaking to me and saying the issue. Being ignored is just horrible.

I've not heard of Cruse. I'm worried about talking through things face to face with someone as it will make me feel worse, not sure how dh would feel about that though, he's meant to be seeing the dr again next week. He went this week as he's ill but saw a locum who he didn't feel comfortable speaking with so will try next week, our drs here are usually very good so it should help. I do end up telling dh now and again but he just tells me to forget about him, I know he doesn't mean that though from what he says, eg he was telling dd today about food in Argentina and that he's brother had been there and told her a story about it. Things like that tell me he still cares. I won't contact bil but I'll try and keep lines open for dh's sake, for mine too as I just want a family. My family are so supportive and amazing so I know that's helped me a lot too.

I know exactly what you mean about the blood family, I know mil and dh have spoken about bil and even she says she can't believe how bil has acted and that's she disgusted with him.

Thanks for the hug, definitely needed. Talking through things like this is so cathartic though and I'm truely grateful to everyone that's spoken with me, it's got me through (well still in but through the hardest part) a dark time.

louisesh - I do remember you, how are you doing now? So sorry you're having problems with in laws too. It's not nice to deal with when you're already hurting so much. Your mil sounds absolutely awful. You've done really well raising so much money for Georgie's charity, well done :) I'm glad the counselling has helped you, I'll have a think about it myself.

kid - thank you, means a lot. Scarlett does look lovely in those photos and I'm glad you think so too :)

I'm feeling ok a the moment, just relaxing and browsing about. Hoping it stays this way.

Louisesh - so sorry that you are also having IL traumas - your MIL sounds horrific! good luck with going back to work - you'll need to wear some strong mental armour, I think, because people will largely not know what to say and some will put their foot in it. They almost certainly won't mean to but chances are they will. :(

C&G - sounds like your BIL is the one who needs counselling to come to terms with dealing with loss at all. There is no good age to lose a parent but puberty has to be one of the worst. my DH lost his when he was nearly 18 and he says that was pretty bad, transition to adult sort of thing - both he and his brother went off the rails a bit because they missed out on that guidance they felt they needed on how to become a good man.
Your BIL was obviously severely affected by the loss but it still doesn't excuse his behaviour now, he should be made to realise that he has to learn to deal with these things - what the hell is he going to be like when MIL goes, or his wife (in many years of course). He is being very selfish by refusing to help his brother out at all.

Well, it's easy to talk about what he needs to do but whether or not he will is another matter. Can you suggest to your SIL that he might need some counselling himself or is your relationship not that close? I would still leave him to himself but if you can keep comms open with your SIL it might help.

Talking through face to face might make you feel worse initially but look at it like this - by talking it through, you get it out of your system. The body can't deal with being in deep grief permanently, which is why you have calm periods. But by not getting it out of your system, you're just pushing it down under everything else. I don't know if you've ever had one of those big zits that just won't heal over? They don't heal until all the zit stuff is out, they just keep scabbing over. This is kind of what is going on with you emotionally - the wound "scabs over" and you feel better for a bit, but the stuff is still all in there, so there is no chance for you to heal. You need to squeeze your mental zit (i.e. talk about your pain) to help the healing process.
Healing does NOT mean forgetting. Of course it doesn't, you will always remember Scarlett! But it does mean coming more to terms with what has happened and being able to deal with your very natural grief.

You may still not be ready for it though - it may take a while yet before you feel it will be of any benefit, and that's ok too. But take your BIL as a warning of what could happen if you internalise too much. :(

In the meantime, keep posting - you're getting some of it out on here so that's definitely therapeutic and beneficial - but you're missing out on the human interaction and response that you would get from a counsellor. Bereavement counsellors have extra training to deal with the grief in a very empathic way.

not much to add, except stay strong and thank you for sharing the pictures of Scarlett, what a beautiful baby girl xxxx

I am not trying to excuse your inlaw families actions at all but when I lost my baby and then one of my twins they just said Oh. Not a word or an apology and if I ever mentiuoned it -which I never do to them now - nothing. Maybe it is a generational thing.

Cheese yes mt MIL is a cow but thats her problem not mine.I really never give her a thought now and its lovely.I m not bad plodding on.What elae can you do? Its coming up to 6 months since Georgie was born so that will be hard.But what isn t?
Yes, Georgie's charity was excellant, the girl done well

Take care.Don t waste too much time on petty peolpe loosing Georgie has made me realise my priorities its the good people in my life not the shits.

thumbwitch thanks.I know people are worried but as i say to them "what can possibly hurt me any more than loosing my daughter?" X

Cheese I have just come across this thread and my heart goes out to you and your fmaily. Thank you for sharing those photos of your beautiful little Scarlett. What comes through so strongly in your posts is how much you love and care for your DH. You must have an amazing marriage in that alongside your terrible grief and the crap from his famiy you are so tender about his feelings. Your children are very lucky to have parents who love each other so much.
I can't imagine when or why the pain of losing your darling daughter could ease but I hope you get to a point where the pain is not so sharp.

Been a while, sorry, hard to deal with sometimes and also had a letter from the hostpial about Scarlett's PM and the cons appt we had, was more detailed than on the day.

thumb - he also lost his nan at a similar age, fairly recently after his dad (but again so did DH), but he spent a lot of time there and ended up living with her for a while afaik so it clearly wasn't good. I'm sympathetic to him a lot but I just don't like being completely ignored when all I'm trying to do is be nice. Is it that hard to reply to someone? Regardless of anything in the past? I really don't know anymore. I think there's no way he'll do counselling from what sil has said to me, I've been keeping in touch with her though so, will see how things go. I just hope it isn't too late, this has hit dh hard, I don't have siblings so I don't really get it but I can see how it's been. It's just adding to all the pain at the moment to think that your own family don't care enough to pick up the phone or pay you a visit, it's hard to stomach.

I do find it incredibly hard to talk face to face, I'm close to my mum but still find that hard, I see her most days and am always on the phone (live 2 mins away) but I find it so much easier to just talk when it isn't face to face. I say I'm ok as I don't really know what else to say. Most people don't want to really hear that you cry, can't sleep, feel awful etc even if it isn't all the time now. Sleeping is a problem again too. The thing with face to face is that I know I'd cry and I don't want to, I'm just so scared of feeling out of control, maybe at some point it could work but I don't think I could handle it I really don't.

Thanks Lulu

FourForty - mil is 50's and bil late 20's so, younger than me, my mum and dad are same generation as mil and they've bent over backwards to support us both in any way they possibly could. I feel eternally grateful for that too.

louiseah- I know what you mean about the priorities in life, sadly I feel they are even though they're inlaws, patched things up with mil since and I know she's been hurting too so I kind of get it. I don't know about bil, I understand but I think if I were him I'd make the effort, I don't know what he wants from family but it clearly takes a little bit of effort to get something back and I can't do anymore.

saffron - thank you, I do love him with all my heart. He's a stepfather to my children though but he loves and cares for them too, they also love him. I think my life is like a soap opera sometimes, if I said everything that had happened I'm sure people wouldn't even believe me half the time. It's so bad I have to laugh or I'd cry. Good things though are my children and my dh, wonderful family and friends, I just hope I've had all the shit in my life already now and that only good things will follow.

Going to type the summary of the letter out now, I had to google to understand some of it:

"In summary, this was a 37 week non-dysmorphicmacerated female infant with foot length consistent with 39 weeks gestation. There were no significant structure abnormailities identified at post-mortem apart from the brain showing the appearance of a severe irreversible hypoxic brain injury. The changes were acute and there was no evidence of infection. The brain was normally formed. This severe irreversible brain damage was caused by oxygen deprivation which occured a few hours before death. The baby weighed 3 kg. The cord was descreibed as a hypocoiled umbilical cord. There was evidence of extensive thrombosis within the placenta. This may has represented a feto-maternal haemorrhage which would be a cause of hypoxia. Alternatively, this could be associated with maternal thrombophillia and therfore a thrombophillia screen will be organised. The villi also appeared to be immature, and taken together with the birth weight and organomegaly, the possiblity of gestational diabetes must be considered.

In view of these findings and low protein s reslut, I will organise a thrombopillia screen three months after the delivery which will be around the first few weeks of March. I discussed with the coupld that the reason for the stillbirth was more likely to be the entanglement of the cord around the baby. I was present at the birth, and the cord was tightly wound round the neck three times, around both wrists and the body was also tightly twisted in the cord. The likely explanation for the stillbirth was due to the instability of the baby's lie and unfortunately because of the baby's movements there was a cord accided of entanglement resulting in stillbirth".

Oh C&G... just read the PM report you typed out :(
If you need anything translated, let me know - I was a nurse before I became a chiropractor so speak "Medicalese".

I haven't seen any of your posts lately - how are you? I mean, other than crap, of course. I totally get saying "I'm ok" because you can't imagine what else you'd say. But I really want to know. Are you sleeping? Eating? Are you able to smile occasionally? And I don't mean that fake grin we put on when life is just too shitty to bear.

Just did a brief read-back and I see your BIL is still MIA in the support department. I agree with Thumbwitch that he needs counselling and also with what she said to you re counselling for yourself. Listen to her, she's a wise woman and very very lovely.

Still thinking of you and Scarlett.
(((((HUGS)))))
xxJM