Threatening a misbehaving child with a cold shower

[Bonsoir]

I just witnessed DD's class teacher having a word at pick-up time with someone who I think is the grandmother of another girl in DD's class. The teacher was obviously very angry about this little girl's misbehaviour because she was raising her voice a bit and looked very cross.

Two minutes later the grandmother was telling the little girl off good and proper - so much so that the child had a screaming meltdown tantrum on the pavement opposite school. Grandmother hit the little girl and threatened her with a cold shower.

Poor, poor little girl. She is adopted and has some developmental/behavioural issues. But that doesn't seem like the right way to go about helping her overcome them...

Do people really do that? Offer assistance to parents of a tantruming child? I have never ever seen it happen or know anyone who does it. In fact, when a child is having a meltdown I would expect most people to pretend they haven't noticed or give a sympathetic smile.
I would suspect the GM wouldn't have taken too kindly to someone poking their oar in. And sadly, this type of thing ie nasty threats, people dragging children and hitting them, does go on, and will continue to do so. Very little you can do, imo.

Anna, I think you could have posted that you witnessed the girl being chained up and fed only bread and water and people would still question your account. I think if you had posted under a different name you would have got a different response from certain posters imo.

I make wild threats of extreme punishment to my chiildren (and the children I teach...) to defuse situations. So I might say I will remove their intestines and show them just how long the duodenum is for example. It's quite effective. But this doesn't sound effective.

More that the teacher was shouting at the grandmother though. Blimey.

I have thought about this already, obviously.

It is difficult to say seeing as I do not know or even know of the people involved. However, if the Grandmother was remotely approachable I might seek her out and speak to her. I may say something like 'I am sorry that I didn't offer some assistance yesterday, you looked like you could have done with some help.'

Based on the results of that conversation, I may feel it appropriate to speak to someone in authority should I have any concerns.

'I tend to think that if you can't control yourself in public, then most likely, worse things are happening when no-one is around ... '

I'm not sure that this is true Jamie. I have dragged my DD through a shop by the arm, whilst she had an immense tantrum. The reason I have done that is because I had no other choice; she wouldn't listen to reason, wouldn't let me pick her up, I had DS in pushchair, and just needed to get out of the shop asap! I have NEVER dragged DD by her arm at home, as I would just leave her to it or send her to her bedroom if she tantrummed at home.

That said, as with a lot of threads like this (usually regarding neighbours and screaming children) it is very difficult to guage, having not been there at the time, whether these threats appear to be idle or not. I think the OP needs to look at it objectively, and not in relation to her own parenting style. If OP then still thinks it is very concerning, then speak to the teacher.

Using humour to diffuse a situation is very different to hitting, dragging and threatening though.
I do agree that the teacher shouting at the GM is rather questionable, especially if she is aware of how badly the GM deals with these situations.

Bosoir - that sounds throughly unpleasant for all concerned.

But actually that silly teacher shouldn;t have complained/rasied voice shouted at the grandmother.

I think the UK has become too child-centric. I find my feelings on the matter buoyed, mid-Channel. I am definitely with the British about no smacking but I'm with the French about expecting children to behave themselves sometimes. And boff if they're bored.

Interestingly, the most recent child I saw smacked was french with a french mother. In the loos in a restaurant in town. The small girl had wet herself and the maman gave her a sharp and hard crack across the legs. It was deeply shocking. But the woman was v glamourous and reed-thin.

Undercover - fair point. I too have dragged a toddler in extreme circs.

But this situation involved more than that.

Oh and I meant to say, I am always telling my small children I am going to put them in the bin. I have never actually followed through.

Gosh what a lovely package of neuroses that child will have Swedes. Smacking because the poor child had wet herself? Presumably she gets smacked if she does as much as look at a crepe de chocolat....

Pixie

'..the grandmother hit her on her side/bottom. She then dragged her across the pavement away from the roadside towards the hedge.'

How did this become:

'dragging them across a road and slapping them.'

Dragging the flailing child away from the roadside sounds like a good idea IMVHO.

And yes, I would much rather someone questioned my parenting style than suspected I was abusing my child.

Pofarced yes, I think you're right. It was alarming. My own DD asked me shy the lady had smacked the girl and I didn't have an answer. I wish I'd said because that lady is v v hungry.

Swedes

Making lighthearted or preposterous threats to a secure child who knows you are only teasing them to get them to toe the line (and I do plenty of this) is quite different to what I witnessed today.

We have already had issues at the school with teachers grabbing parents/carers at the school gates on matters that really ought to be dealt with in private, and it was stamped on for a while. But it seems to be starting up again.

I actually feel really upset and sick that someone would give a child a cold shower as a punishment. Just imagine, they would have to hold/trap a screaming and struggling child under the water, the water would get splashed everywhere so the adult would get wet as well, the child would get automatically in panic mode, all their instincts would be screaming. They would be shivering and miserable all night. Imagine being that child. It is much worse than hitting them IMO.

I have just bathed my children, and when DD1 was shivering and crying when she got out but I had to get DD2 safe first (DD2 is a tiny baby) I felt awful. But that was an unavoidable 30 seconds. (DD2 had pooed in the bath so I didn't have time to do anything else except grab the kids out before they got covered in yellow poo )

I can kind of imagine how you could get so out of your depth and flustered that you might snap and hit a child in the heat of the moment (never been there myself, but can see where it comes from) but I cannot imagine how you could actually plan, take a child to the shower, turn it on, trap or hold them under the water as they scream, then I suppose you wouldn't give them comfort or a nice warm fluffy towel afterwards. Just think how miserable it is if you get trapped in an absolute downpour, now add in your carer making you suffer that, now add in being too small to understand it isn't your fault, now add in not getting comfort afterwards, now add in that being your life.

Urgh. I am actually seriously upset at the concept.

I talked to DP about this when he got in this evening. He shrugged - and said that it is parenting of another era. He got hit with a slipper and a cold shower as punishments in his youth

Oh, that is sad, Bonsoir.
Only you saw the situation and only you can judge whether or not it seemed an empty/real threat. I think you seem rather disturbed by the whole episode.
I suppose if it was a commonplace punishment of old and it was the child's Grandmother then it could well have been meant.
I really hope that you speak with the school though, truly.

Your post made me ButterPie, I really really hope it was an empty threat

Ime children are less mollycoddled in France than the UK but even so. If I had seen what the OP saw and overheard I would mention it to the teacher. I hope that the GM meant nothing by her remarks but the GM is most likely from that generation where a cold shower was viewed as an acceptable punishment. Times have changed but GM may still think it is acceptable.

I doubt I'd have offered assistance at the time unless I knew the GM to talk to.

I agree, Anna, I think you should speak to the school.

Even if they don't act on the information, at least it might give the teacher a bit more awareness of the situation and dissuade her from marching out to the parents and adding fuel to the fire.

Butterpie, you are right.
I bathed my 2 boys tonight and despite them being in a lovely warm bath in a warm house my skinny as a rake DS1 who is almost 6 was shivering as I wrapped him in a towel then got his younger brother out of the bath.

Sticking either one of them in under a cold shower as a punishment? No matter how much they misbehave I just couldn't do that.

Don't patronise me, Bonsoir. I have read the thread thank you very much.

Clearly no one is allowed to disagree with you or offer an alternative view.

I'll leave you to continue speculating on whether the grandmother is abusing her grand daughter because, unless you are in her house, that is all you are doing.