Is smacking always bad?

[Muon]

I have two boys, both very young, and have been to playgroups where older children often behave quite violently towards other children. These children seem to have no idea of the hurt they are causing.
If a child is smacked (once they've been told it's going to happen if they don't change their behaviour and obviously not hard enough to cause a bruise) then they get the idea that physical pain is a punishment. If they don't know what it feels like how do they know what they are doing to other people? It seems to come naturally to children to try hitting as a way of expressing frustration at an age when they're not capable of verbal reasoning, so an adult giving them a smack to control their behaviour at that age wouldn't seem unreasonable.
I believe that most children start out basically nice and, when they get to the stage where they understand other people have feelings too, they won't want to inflict something they see as a punishment without due cause.
I know this message is very nonPC but I also know some people agree, although to actually smack a child in public runs the high risk of abuse from other people. Can the choice to smack or not be accepted as a parenting choice without interference from other people?

Interesting point bloss, but hitting makes no logical sense, either :

Hitting a child to punish them for hitting another child - ridiculous !!!

Yes, smacking is always bad

Always. No debate to be had imo.

The thought of a child being smacked makes me feel sick to my stomach.

You're right, Bloss, and I made that point myself that a lot of parenting is damaging.

We don't do time out or any punishments for precisely the reasons you say.

That is a very good point Bloss.

However, I think there is a big difference between 'you did X so I am going to take away a toy to show you that your bad actions have consequences' and 'you did X so I am going to smack you to show that violence is the answer to all of your problems'.

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OP did it not cross your mind that these children you see being violent, and then subsequently being smacked, are being violent because thats how they have been shown to 'chastise'. ie; if i'm bold, mummy smacks me. this other child has been bold to me so i'll smack him/her.

smacking is always bad. in my own case i was only ever smacked when my mum lost her temper, both she and i knew even then that i ddint deserve it but she could justify it as discipline. which it isnt btw, its just hitting someone smaller than you rather than taking a few minutes out to think about whats best to do FOR THE CHILD.

"The children of smackers are ALWAYS running out into roads and playing with electirc sockets!"
Er....no. My dd has been smacked, she has never run out in the road and she has never played with electric sockets.

There is a really big difference between hitting and smacking.

We have smacked dd on occassion but DH and I have discussed in advance how we'll do it so we're completely consistent. Dd gets a warning that that if she doesn't do what she's being asked then she'll get a smack, the threat alone has made her change her behaviour for the better on countless occassions. If a smack is required she's taken calmly away to another room (so as not to add shame of being smacked in front of anyone else) and we have a calm chat about why her behaviour is deserving of a smack. She has the smack on her backside, not hard enough to leave a mark of course, then we have another quick chat about her behaviour, she says sorry and we have a cuddle, and by the time we go back to the room where we were playing we're the best of friends again and its all forgotten. We use the naughty step too, but a smack can be a more effective way of making a point about behaviour.

On the occassions where her behaviour makes my blood boil I never smack, as I would be doing it out of anger and to vent my own frustration and that would be totally unacceptable.

I'm now going to commit the unforgivable sin of posting something controversial then leaving the thread coz my baby has woken up, sorry!

Carrie. I think it's irrelevant whether or not it's hard enough to leave a mark. It's the power, or lack of it on your DD's side, that is what does the damage.

And the children running into roads and smacking thing was, I think, a joke alluding to the fact that smackers seem to often say 'but what if they run out into the road?' to justify their actions.

Carrie I think that your method would work without the smack frankly.

Carrie you post made me feel sick. The calmness of it all is vile. The fear she must feel being led into another room knowing what is coming. Shame on you.

I need to leave this thread I think as in my hormonal state I fear I will type in anger and may regret my harsh words later.

pitchounette, ive been thinking along the same lines as that for a long time but i always seem to resort to the naughty step, which ime doesnt work, ive been trying really hard not to let things get to that point with ds where he ends up there but i dont think i'm doing very well. how do you do it? do you not do any punishment at all? i'm surrounded by family and friends telling me the naughty step isnt working and that perhaps i should start smacking . thats the complete opposite to the direction i want to go in but i dont know how to do it. i know the naughy step isnt working and it makes us both resentful to take away toys and treats as punishment.

carrie

very sad that you can so calmy inflict pain on your child. very cold.

But if you have to smack them to show them that smacking is unpleasant and unacceptable- what other unpleasant behaviours of theirs do you have to copy to show how bad it is? Running into the road? Weeing onto their possessions? Tearing their books apart? Lying with your legs in the air screaming?

As far as I am concerned, I base my parental authority on the fact that I do not behave like a fractious toddler.

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I think it is always bad and the controlled smackers freak me outmore than the I've lost it momentarily and reacted badly smackers.
My older 2 very rarely got smacked but my youngest would try the patience of a saint.

Carrie - your post made me feel cold. God knows what memories you are creating for your dd.

Goodness me what a lot of perfect parents I am sharing board space with.

Carrie - I think your approach to your child is perfectly balanced and reasonable and NOT abusive. I would say that of course as I have also smacked my children. I can't remember that last time I did smack - isolating the toddler when her behaviour is unacceptable works better with this one - but I reserve the right to smack if necessary.

By smack I mean using my bare hand on her amply covered bottom (still in nappies). I full recognise that when I do smack it is as much about my loss of control as it is discipline, I'm not proud of it but neither am I going to hide how I run my family.

Bloss - I don't do that. I keep telling them why they shouldn't do it and see if we can reach an agreement about who has what toy amicably. They've always grown out of unpleasant behaviour and I've never had anything become a major problem, no more than any other parents anyway - in fact far less so IMHO!

I don't do punishments full stop.

Booooooooooyhoooo - Have you read How To Talk so Kids Will LIsten and Listen so Kids Will Talk? Try that. And/or Unconditional Parenting. And/or Winning Parent, Winning Child

No, not perfect by any means. I can understand smacking when you've lost it but I cant understand premeditated and the calmness of it.

I've never used time out, naughty step etc and my kids are no worse or better behaved than anyone elses. It doesnt make me perfect or a better parent or worse.