I don't think ds got off to a good start with his new head this morning. How can I help him?

[scrooged]

"So you're in year 5?" (head teacher)

"might be" (ds)

"I think you are in year 5"

"could be"

"Are you nervous?"

"No, I don't get nervous"

"I think we need to work on the mannars here"

Glad the bad start turned positive scrooged. Hope it continues for both of you

Scrooged sorry to ask a personal questions ... I haven't read the entire thread so forgive me if this has already been asked - has your ds got a man in his life ? He sounds very similar to my nephew once his dad left the family home. Just wondered.

No ICANDOTHAT. His dad has never been around for him. He did do a club so he could have this influence but 1 hour a week isn't much.

Thanks Smee

My nephew is a very bright lad, but became quite 'lost'. This manifested into rudeness, not knowing when to shut up, barging into situations/conversations etc. I think my sister was aware of his behaviour, but always seemed to compensate for his loss or lack of a male role model by tolerating it.

She eventually got him to join a local football club run by dads and a few others. It helped hugely and after a while he's behaviour changed as it was not accepted by the fellas. I'm not saying women or mums are 'suckers', just that I think boys respond differently to men. I have 2 boys and I know their behaviour if different around their dad or grandfather. They also change/grow up a lot around 9-10 years. Sorry to witter on .... just an idea if you thought it might help him. Good luck

It's alright He's just moved out of a private school into the local state so there's alot more in his class, I don't think this will help him, he was shocked with all the noise, that children just went up to the teacher to ask a question whilst he sat with his hand up. He's lost as to his role I think. He believes that he has to 'look' after me, make me drinks, share his sweets, bring me blankets etc. It is quite sweet but in another way it's hard to get him not to as he's the child and I'm the one caring for him. He does get really upset because he wants to help but I don't know how much I can let him do so I do it all. He did like fencing, it was run by mainly men but it was only for 1 hour so we spent most of Saturday getting there and back. I don't allow sillyness, it drives me nuts so I'm soon on his case. I can take him to more clubs now I'm not paying school fees. He used to go break dancing (no mums!!) but this stopped as we didn't get home from school in time, he can go back now. I used to wait in the cafe and read a book for an hour, it was really nice.
I do think he needs input from other people, not just me. I keep trying his family but they are not really interested. Grandad meets us for lunch during the holidays and will give us money, Gran's crap, so's his dad. His uncle has not sent ds a birthday card for 5 years and my family live quite far away. I do feel sorry for him and I think it takes a village to raise a child, it's hard sometimes though.

What I find somewhat ironic is that some of the posters twittering about empathy have been the least empathetic people on this thread!

Oh really? I suppose you must mean me. Do explain how I have failed to be empathic?

scrooged - he sounds very bright and perhaps a little precocious. FWIW I have a 7 yr old DS who is youngest in his year. He displays more maturity watching the silliness of the other boys than some of the ones almost a year ahead of him. They are all different. I find the silliness hard to deal with when I see it in DS's friends as DS is not generally like that but I can see that so many other boys are that it is a normal stage.

His responses to the head i would class as precocious bordering on rude but that is easily dealt with tbh. You just explain and keep on explaining that he shouldn't speak to people like that as it is rude. And you say it when it happens - no matter who it is in front of. They need it drumming into them that it is rude. Same as I have to drum into my DS that not answering due to shyness is rude too.

Whilst your DS may be mature in some respects through being with adults a lot and being bright etc he can still be immature in other ways.

scrooged, we have talked before, but I have to say that I broadly agree with georgimama. I think it is very hard when you love your DS so much, and clearly feel a great sense of pride about his abilities, to take a step back.

Your DS really does need to be a child. Whether or not he thinks he is equal, he is not. He is a pupil, they are in authority over him.

I really think that you might need to try and look at the unconscious messages you are giving your son. It may be that you need to reinforce his status as a child at home, rather than a 'partner' in life.

lou, you sound caring, but have you read scrooged's post? She's obviously very aware of exactly those pitfalls and is trying her best to avoid them, so give the poor woman a break. Scrooged, have you got any male friends that you can hang around with? Sounds to me like that's what he's missing. Hard to get that from one hour classes, etc.

Just a suggestion - Scrooged, you say he thinks he's on a level with other adults. I'd interpret this as he wants to be on a level with adults, and this might be something you could work with, as he might be motivated by this - e.g., discuss with him how an adult would not talk in that way if asked those sort of questions? I'm not suggesting you make him grow old before his time but having some behaviour to model himself on might help?

Lou makes the point that your son is a pupil and the head is in authority over him, but it's not just that, is it? People will be in authority over your son for all his life, it's not necessarily just a 'child/pupil' issue - whether it is for example the police or his future employer/boss - and perhaps if he understood that it's not just a 'schhol thing', he might see why it's important that he speaks appropriately in these contexts?

'school thing', sorry.

Smee did you read any of scrooged posts in her previous name? Same issues, all excused by the tag of 'he is very bright', 'he thinks he is an adult'. Sorry, but that is not his fault. He needs to be shown that he is a child, and I cannot believe that scrooged is genuinely treating him as a child of his age when all of her posts go around the same circle of justifications of his behaviour.

The question was "How can I help him?" One of the answers is look at your relationship, and perhaps realise that because he has an exclusive relationship at home with his Mum, she has unwittingly allowed herself to treat him as a friend and equal rather than a child and son.

Now, if Scrooged wants to ignore that possibility, excuse the behaviour, and justify it, fine. But then her posts will be "...DS, 13,....how can I help him?"

That's what I started to type Lou, but lost the will to live.

lou nope, you're right I haven't read previous posts, my reaction's because I've been shocked by some of the replies on here - not yours actually - but surely you admit some are downright objectionable. Even if you think scrooged is barking and never listens, well there's ways to say that. + in scrooge's defence, in her post just a bit further up this page she does say 'he's the child and I'm the one caring for him', so she is acknowledging this may well be part of the problem. To me she's someone who's having a hard time, so needs a bit more empathy. Doesn't mean people can't be quite bold with any suggestions, but there are ways of doing that.
tbh I'm losing the will to live now too. I just don't understand why people need to be so snippy.

Smee, I think it's because we have posted on various of Scrooged's threads, many of which were concerned with exactly these issues. We have offered support and advice previously, and yet here we are again, same issues, same responses etc. etc. etc. Scrooged doesn't seem to recognise that they are manifestations of the same concerns, and to people posting on them, that is one of the issues.

Exactly, littlefish. I have no wish to upset scrooged and I did reread my post a few times before I pressed "post". But these issues have been raised so many times that some of us are starting to think that a more blunt approach is the only thing that might help scrooged make the changes she so obviously wants to make.

okay, I can see it's frustrating, but I still think there are ways of being blunt and some people have not just been blunt but mean too imo. And no I'm not having a go at either of you, but read back and surely you see what I mean. Some of the posts are so judgemental, and I just can't see how they're helping anyone.

I can see that some of the posts are rather blunt. However, Grammaticus is right, that some of us have been blunt for a reason. I agree though that judgemental is not helpful.

However, none of the judgemental, blunt or even opposing messages seem to be having any impact on Scrooged and her desire/ability to make changes to the status quo. In fact, the only responses that seem to be taken seriously are the ones that agree with her own ideas as to approach or why she or her ds are struggling.

As such, I feel that as Lou has said, she will continue to post the same concerns time and time again with her ds getting older and older.

I really hope for both their sakes, that Scrooged is able to access some rl support through either the GP or a parenting programme.

I think the bottom line here is that we have femanised education and our negative attitudes towards boys in general. As most teachers at this level are women, they find it hard to tolerate boys 'rude' behaviour or 'silliness'. I am not saying that either of these traits are acceptable, just that boys are DIFFERENT and until we stop banging on about how 'naughty' they are, their self esteem will suffer and we will go round and round in circles until we bite our own bums ! We need to change our attitude and approach to boys because at present they are sometimes seen as anti-social. We need to desperately get men into the classroom in earlier years and more so in senior years. I'm full of ideas, but sad when I don't think this will ever happen or know of a way to get it done

People are making too many assumptions without actually knowing my child. I do defend him but this is because none of you know him. It has nothing to do with my parening skills or lack of. Have any of you thought that you are wrong? No one's an expert, people come on here for advice, not a slating. If you can't be arsed to respond then do everyone a favour and don't. It's not construcive to say someone's child has problems when none of you know him. I don't need support, I know now exactly who ds is the way he is (thanks to Thumbwitch), he needs understanding which some of you very clearly do not have. You're not being blunt for a reason, you are being rude about a family which you have no idea about, I am aware of his and my faults, no ones perfect le alone some of you. I write about something he said yesterday and you have assumed that he's like this all the time. How wrong you are. What right do you have to judge a child that you no nothing about and I do emphasise the fact that he's a child. He does need more male input and I'm seeing to it that he gets this but he's not going to turn into a teenager from hell. There are people posting on this site about children far worse then ds.

If you can't offer anything useful besides snide comments and judgments on someone that needs support then don't post!

So I have a child who wants to be treated as an equal and says the wrong things sometimes. Well boo fucking hoo! He's not violent, he's not disruptive or distructive, he's caring, funny and very bright so I prefer him the way he is.

Thanks for helping me teach him tact and diplomacy!

You're right, boys are misunderstood and thought of badly. I agree with this. Thankyou ICANDO and the rest of you that offered support

Is a child not allowed to be nervous and say something out of order? Have you not ever done this????? He appologised, he won't do it again is this not progress?