5 yr old DS is driving me crazy!!!Please help.

[chocciedooby]

I have been concerned with DS's behavious for some time now and I am really getting to the end of my tether. So many behaviorial things to mention but a few are that he is: -

Attention Seeking
Persistant
Stubborn
At times - aggressive
Very fussy eater

The list is endless. He does of course he has many great positive qualities but I really need help as I don't know how much more of this unacceptable behaviour I can take. I am exhausted physically and emotionally, am expecting baby no.3 in June and don't know how I will cope.

One of the things that I find very difficult is that he wants to be in control of EVERYTHING. I stand my ground, don't give in, say NO and stick to it but he continues to throw huge tantrums (sometimes over an hour long), has peed on the floor and in his bed for attention and will go to any lengths to win a battle.

He will not go to sleep in the evenings and constantly calls dh and I upstairs for silly things just to get our attention. I am so concerned that he is not getting enough sleep. His mind seems to be overactive.

I have tried many discipline techniques (in fact about all of them) over the years and nothing seems to work. I am now considering talking to a challenging behaviour therapist and wondered if anyone else out there is dealing with the same problems or has found a therapist of use.

Please please help.

The other thing I found can work is saying no without using the word iyswim. He says can I have x, you say, perhaps in a few days/weeks depending what it is, as we can't afford it at the moment, I haven't got enough time now but we can come back when you have x amount of stickers iyswim

Not having a good night again.
DS got to sleep at 10.40pm last night and he is still awake right now.
We had a really busy day yesterday and today so just can't understand why he can't get to sleep. He had school and had to be up at 7.15am. It was p.e day and after school (finishes at 1.25pm) I took him for 2 hours of indoor play where he ran aroudn with pals like a lunatic.
Surely he should be exhausted??? He is so different to me. I love my bed and my sleeps.

Hi chocciedooby,

Have been following this thread with interest. There has been lots of good advice.

I wanted to add the following (not sure if you will find helpful or not):

Your ds sounds similar to mine. My ds (also 5) is very strong willed, always wants control and has a really short fuse. I find him very hard work a lot of the time like you. He is also very affectionate, very funny and comes up with amazing ideas.

We have had absolutely no success with either rewards or punishments. He just doesn't respond to them. If this works for you then great, but to be honest it has been a big relief for me to throw out the star charts etc. I do make him sit on the bottom step if he has done something really awful like hitting me, but this is more so that he can calm down, then afterwards we talk about it. I am trying to get him to express anger in words or by punching pillows etc, but this is hard for a 5 year old. While he is on the step he will scream and shout and says he hates me/I'm nasty etc but I know he doesn't mean it and it's all part of his process of calming down. It takes 10-15 mins normally and I try to leave him to it.

Because he wants to rule the world I try to let him have as much control as possible, but it's hard to get the balance between that and pushing me around, I know. Hopefully if he feels he has control some of the time he will listen to me when it really matters.

Lastly I found a great book called "Playful Parenting". Strong willed children tend to back themselves into corners if confronted directly and this book gives great suggestions for how to handle things more playfully and avoid tempers rising.

Sorry, don;t have any suggestions re the sleeping. I would say do your best, try to relax about it as much as you can, you can't force kids to sleep, and it sounds like it's all part of the control thing anyway.

Good Luck, let us know how you are getting on.

choccie, hope your boy wasn't a demon after such little sleep. Was it better last night?
Here I posted on another thread - someone started it asking for help with her 7 yo who's the same in terms of inability to go to sleep. She suggested Craniotherapy to me, so I found one on the net, and contacted her. She's suggested that as my son's always been like this, it might be linked to his birth (long drawn out labour, then ventouse and forceps). She thinks it's possible my son has an 'activated nervous system' as a result. Apparently one of the drawbacks of that is poorer sleep. I'm going to take him along to meet her tomorrow after school. Who knows if she's right or can help him, but I'm always open to new ideas, and think it's got to be worth a try. I'll let you know how we get on Choccie. Wouldn't it be fantastic if it works...

HI Smee that sounds very interesting. Let me know how you get on. Hope it works for you. Would be fantastic if it did! My DS was always a great sleeper and we never had this problem until Christmas time when we were in UK at my parents. Since then he has lost all track of routine and also has no soother anymore (sent it to fairies on New Years Eve) .

Last night he fell asleep at 9.40pm.
Tonight - well he is still awake but very calm in bed so who knows??! I really feel for him as he is trying so hard to be good and not bother us but then gets frustrated when he can't drop off

KTNoo Thanks for your post.
Sounds like you have a similar boy That book sounds interesting. I have just started reading "raising your spirited child" and I went straight to the bedtime section which states that "Spirited" children can be prone to sleep problems, waking in the night etc. DS doesn't really wake as once asleep he gets into a very deep sleep so I must be luckier than some. I will keep on reading and let you know if anything helps.

Hi Ladies

I've tried the cranial osteopathy, with DD2 and it is the one thing in the past which has calmed her down. However it's expensive and private medical insurance will only pay if refered by GP.

As most GP's say it is alternative medicine, they don'y believe in it! I know it works, but try telling a GP who doesn't have a problem child. Ahhhh

Sorry rant over.

Well the cranial woman I've found is £30 a session and she says she'd ideally want to see him for 2 or maybe 3 sessions. Not cheap, but if it works well worth it. We're going this afternoon after school. Only thing I'm worried about is whether he'll let her near him...

Good Luck today Smee.

DS went to sleep as I was posting on here last night Dropped off about 9.10pm so we are thrilled. He was very relaxed so made a big difference. I know that he has lots going on in his little head including "homework". Can you believe 5 year olds get homework??!! He has been writing on paper upstairs his letters and numbers etc. The poor pet just can't switch off and must be a worrier.

KTN00 the sticker chart that we are using seems to be working well (so far).
The big difference between this chart and many others that we have tried is that he has to bring it into school every day and discuss it with his teacher/principal. They reward him with the odd jelly if he has been good and write encouraging remarks on his chart etc. He loves the positive attention he is getting from it and the school are being brilliant to support me on this.

We have similar problems with my DS (4 yrs) I understand about boys behaviour and their need to 'release their energy' but I'm worried mainly because it is worse when he is at pre-school and when we go out. I don't take him out much at the moment due to his behaviour (infact he has been banned from the place we usually go) He is very aggresive, I don't know where it is coming from he just gets so frustrated when things don't go his way and it ends in hitting and biting!!
He swears to get attention, he constantly attacks his younger brother, he still wets and poos even though I know he can go dry when he tries.

I am at my wits end with it too and finding it very hard to deal with anything else rationally as I am so drained by this.
He does sleep well though but I put that down to the amount of energy he uses in the day.
His pre-school are talking about getting funding in to help with his behaviour and that they'll need to liase with his Primary school when he starts (he is already in a reward system at pre-school to try and stop the biting!!)
I'm going to go to the Docs to see if I can ask for some support intothis and see if there is something else going on inside his little head (it breaks my heart to not know where this is coming from) He is very imaginitive and social when it is on his ground so I don't think Autism is possible but not sure???

Nannyjo, that sounds so hard. Makes my lack of sleep worries seem tame. Does he get upset when he loses control and bites, etc?

I too have tried all the reward systems, not bothered by charts...'you do it' is the response I get. Time out doesn't work (just huge tantrums and no positive effect. I tried taking his favourite things away and he ended up bringing the ones I missed to me to put away!!!
I'm constantly trying to punish his bad behaviour because it is litterally from the minute he wakes to the minute he goes to bed. There are very few good times at the moment (VERY FEW!!) and it upsets me that I spend all day dealing with him and spend little time with No2 and 3 ( which I know is what he wants)It's hard to really reward the good times when they rarely happen ( and I do try to make a point of positive attention when possible)

I just want to enjoy my little boy :-(

Sorry that was long x

no he's proud of his bitng and syas 'I just bit because I wanted to, I know I should use my words but I wanted to bite!!'
He is verbally very intelligent, knows about the mechnics and engineering of everything...I wonder whether this is a part of it all??

If he really doesn't understand that he's causing others pain and isn't responding or caring about any attempts to help him stop, then I'd say you're right to try and get some support. He sounds bright and articulate and you sound lovely. I really hope you can find some help soon. I would go to the doctor too, why not as the more advice you can get the better. Don't take your son with you though - if he hears you telling the doctor all about this, it might make him worse. Really hope you get somewhere soon though x

gosh nannyjo,you sound like you're having a hard time of it. imo I'd go to gp/ or health visitor (as they have equal power to refer) and be persistent in asking for referal. (I got fobbed off for a while). My DD2 doesn't show behaviour outside of family, so I feel for you . It's hard when it's at home but at pre-school as well.

You sound very patient, and I know from personal experience it's hard to keep patience. Especially when you have other DC to look after as well.

Sorry Smee, how did it go today?

Cranial woman was lovely. She didn't want to talk infront of him which I agree with, but said she thought it worth our going again and said '..there's an incredible amount going on in there.' Which let's face it is interesting, even though I know not what it means. It's got to be worth a try, so we'll return next week. Though having said that, last night he didn't get to sleep until 9.45, so it's hardly an instant fix..

chocciedooby - My ds aged 6 (dx ADHD) had Craniotherapy and it was amazing. He calmed down and 'appeared' more focused. Believe me, I have tried everything - diet, fish oils, behaviour charts, homeopathy. They all contributed to better awareness and behaviour, but the cranial massage was truly something brilliant.

hi chocciedooby and others, how long will you be waiting for this assessment in ireland, I live in Galway and having been waiting for appointment for 3 months for my 5 yr old ds please tell me he will not be a teenager by the time it comes round.

Nannyjo - I would go to health visitor and see how they can help with DS's biting. You never know, they may have some great ideas and will have dealt with many kids that bite before. Do feel for you.

Smee - Cranial sounds interesting. I really hope it works for you.

Hi Icandothat.

Sweetblossom - I was referred 2 weeks ago and DR told me it would be a 3 month wait, however others have told me that it could be up to a year . I was advised to keep calling the clinic every few days to push for an appt.

My DS has been pretty good this week. I am so much more relaxed and he is much happier too Still staying on waiting list for assessment etc as teacher says there is definately something going on in his little head.

Had a nightmare morning struggled to get ds dressed he then ranted that there were no croissants (this is no five star hotel),he would not eat anything else. Then his tooth fell out but in his excitment to show me it flew up in to the air and has not been seen since, he will obsess all day about finding the tooth so I have been like a character from CIS on the floor with one of those giant torches. Some days I look at him and think there is nothing wrong with him he is perhaps a little different. He was in trouble yesterday at school for fighting, do not get me wrong but I feel his teacher almost enjoys telling as she is the one who says something is wrong with him, because his vocabulary is advanced and he is obsessed with dinosaurs. God I needed that big moan.sorry!

Chocciedooby - I have been told it could be up to a year wait for assessment maybe I will start putting the pressure on by phoning the clinic. thanks

thanks guys, I went to docs, he just smirked when he said 'thats just what some kids do'!!!!

I persisted tho and said that if he didn't do something then his pre-school would so we'vw set the wheels in motion now!!

Could be ages tho before anything is done, you know what th NHS is like!!

Anyone know if a referal with regards to child psychology is quicker or the usual months?

hi ladies

Not been on recently as broadband went down. DD2 seems tp have calmeddown due to me making sure she has a sleep during day. Don't know if normal for a child of 3y 8 m still to have sleeps? But she is having less tantrumstand seems to be okay going to bed .

She has had eye test for her cross eyed problem and has been refered for full MOT, as something there .

I've been told referal takes about 3 months in england.

How's everyone else been?

Hi Mrspurple. Good to hear from you.
I haven't been posting for a while as DS has been pretty good but the last 2 nights it seems to have fallen apart
He is pretty good during the daytime but is saving all his anger etc until bedtime.

He has started to come down the stairs again, laughing and saying he is not going to bed etc etc. I have simply run out of ideas on how to deal with this.

DH and I are finding it increasingly difficult to be patient with him when he does this and last night ended up resorting to giving him a choice of staying in his bed or going outside in the cold . Guess which he opted for????

I felt like a terrible parent and was very upset (unbeknown to him).

He came up to me and hit me in the stomach and said "now the baby is dead"! "I hate you", "I don't love you" etc etc. I know I have to ignore the things he says but I am getting upset and my raging pregnancy hormones do not help.

Can anyone advise me on how to deal with this situation? He has gotten in to bad habits and we really need to break the cycle.HOw do I persuade him to stay in bed without using force or punishment?