Calling all Mum's of demanding kids - are your fuses as short as mine? :( sorry, bit long)

[balanomorey]

Am wondering if I'm normal or in need of anger management!!
My coming up to 3 yo dd is so demanding, I seem to spend 3 parts of my day bawling her out or saying no - it's so demorilising - I'm sure for her too, although I know I have to set boundaraies, don't I?

Her speech and awareness of what's going on around her is, imo sometimes gobsmacking for her age. She knows exactly what she wants, can ask (demand) for it very articulately and comes out with expressions that very often floor me! She seems to know too much at a young age. But as she is so young, she is obviously so very immature in many other ways and always wants to run before she can walk ("I do it" is her favourite expression) and when i say no, because imo what she is asking for she can't do or it is dangerous to have etc, she goes off on one. She also takes forever to do what I ask - all in all, she can be SOOOO frustrating - but at the same time, adorable and I lurve her to bits!

However, as I said all this continual conflict of interest is wearing me down as I am constantly saying no and shouting to the point where she will say 'don't shout at me' before bursting into tears or she will panic if she knows or thinks she's done something wrong as she will say "sorry, sorry, sorry" over and over and looks genuinely scared I'm going to tear her off a strip .

Feel really bad this morning as we were late getting to nursery and she suddenly decided just as we were going out the door that she needed the potty. I was not best pleased as she has used the potty as an excuse lately to keep getting out of bed or stall bedtime...she sits there for ages insisting she needs to go and nothing happens, so assumed she was playing this game again. This happened last night at 3 in the morning (the sides have just come off her cot, and I think she thinks this is a great excuse for disturbing the household in the middle of the night now that she can get out and tell us she needs a wee)...so this morning I bawled her out for needing the potty (frazzled on the back of a bad night, maybe) and felt awful as she then proceeded to do a big wee...told me to say sorry for shouting at her...and told me how much she loves me ..so have been feeling guilty and crap mum all morning.

Just a bit of a rant really, but make me feel better by telling me I'm not unusual to shout - I hate shouting and am fed up of spending a large part of my day bawling and getting wound up. Am I alone in this?
Thanks for reading, sorry so long, just needed to vent. x.

Also, I can't remember if I this has been mentioned, but if you do get into a rage about something and you know it is unjustified, then apologise to your DCs afterwards.

Dear All
Once again, some great advice on here which I have been reading and absorbing with great interest. Keep posting.

I feel I haven't contributed much over the last few days - it's hard for me to find the time as dh dosn't know I'm posting (he wouldn't be too happy if he knew I'd been 'airing my dirty laundry in public', so to speak, as he's forever telling me to chill out, so would be upset to know I'm that unhappy about things that I'm posting on here...so I need to do it when he's not around which isn't always easy). Also, obviously, dd is around all day, so I can't concentrate to post when she's about as she is too distracting.

Was going to post this morning as she is meant to be at nursery - but she broke her heart about going this morning which is most unusual so I've had to keep her home, against my better judgement! Asked her why she didn't want to go and answer a) was because of the spider that was there last week and answer b) was because she didn't feel well - have given her the benefit of the doubt that it's answer b) as she has been a bit poorly this week...so no time to post today.

Just wanted you all to know I am still here and keeping tabs, but haven't always got the time to write a long, constructive post - but so wish all those struggling with temper well and hope things improve for you all.

When I have time will post an update on how I am getting on and I do have some issues I'd like a bit of advice on...so watch this space and in the meantime lets keep up the support on this thread. x.

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RobbieRotten, Being kicked in the face is horrible. You are doing really well to grit your teeth and resist the urge to react back.
My DC have done this in the past and I have dealt with it by removing their current favourite toy for a set period. The sanction has to be immediate for that kind of behaviour.

My DS2 who is 7 called me an idiot this morning. I can't remember why although it was something to do with me asking him to come and eat his breakfast.It's a phase he's going through. I really hate it though and I felt myself getting angry. I thought about this thread and the discussion about empathy. I did do a lot of finger shaking but managed not to shout. Basically I said I didn't like to hear anyone called an idiot, that I am not an idiot and that how would it make him feel if I called him one. I then went onto say, (which I now regret) that if he continues to call me an idiot I may have to reconsider the pool party we have organised for his birthday. Thinking about it now I should have removed something, but I was feeling really cross, I didn't think straight. Also DH is away for a few days and I am feeling tired and overstretched.

I don't like issuing these kind of threats but find I do it quite a lot when they misbehave. It's definitely better than smacking or shouting but still not good.
Does any one else issue threats?

I issue threats all the time, Mimizan! But i've been lucky in that I haven't had to follow up any "big" threats, IYSWIM. For example, what would you do if he DID call you an idiot again? I really would not know what to do in that situaton. I'd just feel too bloodyo mean to NOT let him have the party, but they have to know you mean business when you issue threats, don't they? It's so hard. It's totally understandable what you did though. Maybe a kind of anti-reward chart?! A kind of "3 strikes and the pool party goes" chart. Only joking......

Actually, that's KIND of something that some primary schools are doing (if you don't already know about it). My SIL told me recently about "Golden Time" which they have in her son's school. It's a short period of free time on a Friday afternoon when the children can choose a "play-based" type of activity to do. If they've had a certain number of reprimands for bad behaviour that week, then they lose their Golden Time. I have no idea whether it works, was the first time I'd heard of it. Similar type of concept, I suppose.

To everyone else, there is some really good advice here, I have been reading with interest! I like your idea of how to deal with a whingy/whiny child, Othersideofthechannel. Will try that with my two, it always helps to make them laugh.

Somebody mentioned something about not being able to deal with their kids during the morning rush. I can so identify with that! Also the kids mirroring your behaviour idea. Very true! The kids get so much more stressed if I am rushing about late in the morning, and it just makes them whinge and moan and drag their feet even more. The ONLY way I've found to deal with it is something totally obvious and that is to just get us all up earlier (much as it kills me! ), and leave PLENTY time for unforeseen situations which would otherwise make me get all tight-chested and shout at the kids.

I've not really got any time to write any more as DS2 refusing to nap as too snotty! He is off his food as well so extra demanding. Cbeebies has been on a LOT today!

Will keep popping on...

Skydancer, I love what you wrote about children sensing our moods before we even know our mood has changed! So if their behaviour starts getting worse we can say to ourselves "The children's behaviour is showing me that I am getting into a bad mood. What can I do/how can I think differently to make myself feel better". I think this will definately be useful for me because I really notice that DCs' and DH's moods change when mine does, they seem really affected by me.

OtherSide, I love what you wrote about saying to a child who has hurt another one "Look how you have made him/her feel". I am very anxious that DD might bully DS (anxiety comes from the way my bro treated me). My bro appeared to have no empathy or guilt at the time. Teaching my children empathy is really important to me but I didn't really know how to do it. Your idea is excellent.

Katie, I agree about labelling the behaviour and not the child. A problem has been that when I tell DD off it seems to have no impact on her. Ever since she was a baby she is likely to just laugh in my face. So I sometimes shout louder or say more horrible things to try to make her cry, to make her sorry for what she has done. I know this is wrong. I know that I need to store up in my mind consequences for her behaviour that really piss her off but aren't abusive, eg taking away her cloth, making her play upstairs on her own for 5 mins etc. DS is the other way - I ask him nicely if he wouldn't mind not doing something and he cries loudly and tragically for ages! So I end up being softer with him and DD must notice the difference which must look like favouritism.

I feel very reassured and comforted by you saying that it is ok to come down hard on bad behaviour (I feel I have a problem knowing what is and isn't ok and normal, I go between not enough discipline because I'm scared of damaging their self esteem to being too controlling and psycho when I can't take anymore). You are saying it is ok to come down hard on bad behaviour so long as I express strongly that the behaviour is bad and not the child (just reiterating to myself).

RobbieRotten, I SO know what you mean about losing it more when you are in a rush. I get overwhelmed really quickly when I am trying to do more than one thing at once and under pressure for time and then children complicate it all with their bad behaviour. I don't have much self control at these times. I suppose the thing to do is to prepare lots of things in advance eg the night before and leave extra time. A playground friend said she allows "10 minutes pointless faffing around time" on top of the time she thinks she needs to get out of the house.

Rachel- They have the red, yellow, green card scheme at the DSs school. Apparently it works well. I have tried to do this kind of thing at home, but even star charts tend to get complicated. Also I don't really want home to be regimented like school is IYKWIM. My DSs are very well behaved at school, and I know it stresses them out having to always be good boys, and to an extent home is a release for them. They do 'let it all out' on me. Even so I don't think I should have to put up with it. I'm contradicting myself here.

However it could be that it is all part of the emotional maturing process. Perhaps children, especially the spirited ones, learn step by step and in different situations to behave appropriately and to learn how to behave empathetically (sp?) It's probably a good sign that they feel secure enough in their relationship with their mother to completely push the boundaries. It's bloody exhausting though to be on the receiving end of it.

skydancer what you said here: "children are like intuitive precision-radars and seem to reflect back our state of mind sometimes even before we know what's going on with ourselves. They pick up on stress levels, unhappy vibes or short fuses and somehow reflect them back to us parents in 'bad' behaviour much like one of those exaggerated circus mirrors. So when I can remember this as I start being annoyed with my DS I try to become more aware of my own mental state and to manage it better. If I'm successful I find I can manage my Ds better (and he usually seems happier when I calm down anyway so it often takes away the need to 'manage' the child). Often I realise I am preoccupied with something totally unrelated to the child but I haven't had time or space to deal with so it is 'leaking' into how I relate to him." hits the nail on the head for me and thank you for explaining it so much better than i could do myself.

Over time I have become much more consciously aware of the thoughts, however fleeting, that are constantly passing through my mind. 100% of the time these thoughts are nothing to do with the DC's but the thoughts make me feel angry almost without realising it and as soon as the DC's do the tiniest 'naughty' thing my anger leaks out at them. I feel terrible as I'm writing this as I realise how often my DC's have been the innocent victims of my anger which should rightfully have been directed at somebody else (this is where the stately homes thread comes in).

A while ago, when i realised what i was doing i started apologising to DD every time i got angry at her unjustifiably. On the positive side now that I know who I should actually be directing my anger towards, my DC's are very rarely the targets anymore if at all.

Like I said I do still get cross at DD if I have to tell her not to interrupt for the zillionth time, but I don't 'lose the plot', I merely tell her very firmly to stop interrupting.

On a very practical note, I have found that if my blood sugar is low I also tend to have a short fuse. It's easier said than done, but making sure you eat regularly (and not biscuits/sweets/chocolate) is extremely important as is drinking enough water. I am actually quite placid on a full stomach, whereas if i haven't eaten I am on edge/tense/anxious and it doesn't take much to set me off.

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I love this thread so much that I've copied and pasted each bit of good advice into a document to make a kind of childcare manual! I will keep reading it to remind myself to do the techniques.

I can relate to the stress under time pressure thing, that is when I'm not very good either. I am also not good at doing lots of things at once, I need to contrate on one thing at a time (not a multi-tasker obviously) but at the same time I think I ought to be able to do lots of things at once as I am a woman and ALL women are good at multi-tasking....apparently.

So when I am trying to get something done and DD/DS come along and demand me to do something as well....I find it really hard to stay calm. DH just seems to be able to 'zone out' the DC's when they are being demanding and he stays calm and does things when he is ready. But then he only spends probably a tenth of the time with them that I do so perhaps that is something to do with it.

ActingNormal, I got that empathy idea from Alfie Kohn. It's not my own.

Your child doesn't have to look remorseful when you point out what they have done wrong. Providing you know they have heard you, it is often enough just to say something.

As for threats, I think some kinds of threats are worse than shouting, the kind that are about taking away a future treat for immediate compliance.

I don't mean this kind of threat:
"take the bouncy ball outside, it might break the tv"
child continues
"if I can't trust you not to throw the ball in the living room, I'm going to have to take it off you"

I mean this kind of threat:
"take the bouncy ball outside, it might break the tv"
child continues
"if you don't stop throwing that ball in here, I won't take you to the playground later"

Surely it's better just to shout something simple 'Stop throwing the ball'?

OSOC- I agree with you about the threat with the ball. Obviously it is quite simple that you remove the ball after threatening to do so.

My problem was that my DS calls me an idiot, which is obviously unacceptable. I admit I reacted inappropriately this morning by threatening to cancel his birthday party if he continues to call me an idiot. I was very frazzled, trying to get 3DC ready to get out for the schoolrun.

What sanction would you suggest for this behaviour?

I probably would just say that he's entitled to feel cross about what I asked him to do. It's not much fun having to come and have breakfast when he's busy but that he needs to find a less hurtful way of expressing his anger. And then we'd try to come up with ideas together.

No need for a sanction IMO.

Just remembered, I thought about something a couple of weeks ago that made me feel better and have a more positive approach.

When the children are naughty or have cried a lot that day instead of feeling angry and feeling the day has been a failure, think that they have learnt more about life that day so the day has been very worthwhile. When they are naughty it is an opportunity to teach them how they should be behaving. When they are expressing their feelings in an extreme way it is an opportunity to teach them how to deal with their feelings. If these things never happen then they won't learn much! Then when they are older and less open to learning how will they cope when they can't have their way or something upsets them.

So long as you have made it clear what is and isn't acceptable behaviour without being abusive and said the right things with the approach of teaching them how to cope in the real world (by behaving in a way that doesn't upset people or cause danger) and how to be happy (by expressing their negative feelings in words rather than violence and expressing positive feelings/thoughts as well) then you shouldn't feel guilty about disciplining them but should feel that you have done a good job as a mother.

It is a really important job to do this and a job you should be proud of. The harder work your children are, the more proud you should feel that you are surviving it and not in a mental institute yet.

I hope this doesn't sound patronising, you all know I am not a smug perfect mother!

AN- LOL at 'the harder work your children are the more proud you should feel that you are surviving it and not in a mental institution'.
The joys of motherhood.

Thanks for that advice Otherside. It's helpful to have the situation reframed, and to look at it from DS's perspective.

Oh yes, and Therapist said that if you feel you have done something wrong and said or done the wrong thing it is an opportunity for you to learn how to do it better next time. Don't beat yourself up for too long but think about what you will do differently next time to do it better.

mimizan
i wrote a long post earlier but it doesn't seem to have registered - never mind - mainly i wanted to say that i am reading 'how to talk so kids will listen' right now (have you read it?) - it is very good on 'alternatives to punishment' - basically it seems to say punishments essentially don't work(!) - haven't time to write more just now but will write more soon - i recommend getting a copy anyway if you can, it's sensible stuff in the main (though very very american).
our mornings can be astonishingly bad too let me make sure my other long and rambling post really didn't register (bcs i would be embarassed to bore you twice over with the details of said mornings) and i'll write later x

KatieK- Is 'How to listen' by the same author as 'Siblings without Rivalry', do you know? That was a very 'american book' with good tips but I found the tone annoying. It's worth a try though. I know I make lots mistakes in how I communicate, and with a little more thought could make everything much more easy. I keep thinking we need to make the changes now before the teen years.

the teen years......my biggest dread.....

yes! it is by the same authors. my pal in washington told me the sibs book was great too but i can only handly one american parenting manual in the house at any one time

back soon DD in total meltdown mode bcs DS didn't do EXACTLY what he was told during their game just now

yes mimi and others - just had to tell you that mornings can be truly hideous in this house too. what happens is that first of all DD (who is often reminiscent of a human landmine, but never more so than first thing in the morning)has to be fed, nothing else is of greater importance to us ALL than getting her breakfast down her.
(i must have told you that for about a year every single day began at half six in the morning with a massive tantrum because her cornflakes had been poured into her bowl in the WRONG-SHAPED HEAP?).
at the moment they aren't too bad at getting into uniforms after the briefest and most cursory of washes, bcs the rule is now no playing until dressed. once they are dressed they can play for 20 mins or listen to a story CD. all okay so far.
the trouble then comes with getting them away from said game or CD. if my DD is in one of her PMT-esque moods (and god how i dread the onset of the real thing for her in a few years' time!!) then a massive rage can be sparked by the words 'kids -shoes on!'. it's the interruption that is like a knife through her heart!! she can then lash out at her brother, who reacts (moderately) causing her to get virtually hysterical with heightened rage at how unfair the world is, how 'mean' we all are, and how 'it isn't her fault' she's like this.
my DS and i are SO used to all of this that we exchange a knowing look -he has even got a bit of an adult eye-roll thing going on, at 5 - and leave her to it. eventually she calms down and we get to school but not without a few more spats along the way. it's SO WEARING.
luckily this is no longer a daily occurence - today was bad bcs she is overtired as having loads of bad dreams but often we get out of the door with only minor skirmishes. but about a year or so ago things were terrible. i remember one conversation with her on the way to school 'mummy when i grow up i want to be a scientist, you know making those magic potions' - 'oh yes darling, you mean a chemist, that's a sort of scientist' - cue monumental tantrum bcs she was confused by the word chemist and i had contradicted her (in her view). argh!!!it was so prolonged and dreadful that i phoned my DH (who escapes to work with GLEE long before we get out of the house)to let him listen in on the hell that he was missing out on! he liked that a lot

but (forgot to add something more positive) i can now discuss this sort of thing with her - when she is calm, obv.
so she can talk about how frustrated she gets and can discuss possible strategies for the future. we even made a list tonight, DS helped too. except that the anger-calming ones never work!!! (punching pillows, counting to ten etc). all that works is leaving her to it in her room. i suppose that's something!

and can i now just briefly change the subject - we found a dead either a/ polecat or b/ mink on the way home. isn't that intriguing? am new to this country lark as you can tell.

on which autumn-watch-esque note

night night girls

Hi actingnormal and oneplusoen - I'm glad you can relate so much to the thing about children reflecting us back. I meant to qualify that one by also saying along the lines of - of course they are individuals too with their own agendas/feelings/whole-universe-within going on! And then there's the whole sibling thing and just having more than one child - when I read you all with bigger families I start getting a bit about my struggles with one. But I comfort myself I came into this business rather late in life -had all those years thinking it was hard enough just looking after myself .

I love what some of you on here have written about your relationship with your DCs...such as really looking at your children (AN? - sorry, too tired to read back now) and so many practical, useful strategies. I knew the one about coming down on the behaviour not the person - but still that is good to be reminded of as it is very important for self-view, self-esteem/keeping integrity.

Well I had an easier day with my DS I'm sure because of this thread. I remembered to enjoy him and have fun with him and laugh a lot. He still had nuclear tantrums a few times (supermarket was one lovely experience of course - they let me jump a whole check-out queue in sympathy )

Oh and Ds told me he didn't want to go to nursery today (he only goes for a few hours) because 'its dirty'. I still took him, poor lamb.

I have been working through this thread for the last few days, and I LOVE IT. Thank you all so much. I am in the grip of severe pnd and 'lose it' with ds 2.8 far too much for my liking. Since sunday, I have been so much more positive towards him. I even missed him so much last night, i took him into my bed when i went up so i could feel him close by. I have lapsed a couple of times when he has been hurting his baby sister (defo bad behaviour) however it seemed to stop him quicker than before. A GP once told me that it just becomes 'white noise' to dc when we shout/raise our voices on a regular basis. In 3 days I have started to enjoy my children. I cannot tell you how grateful I am, especially to Balanomorey for starting this thread. I have so often thought of seeking help with my parenting and this thread has made me more determined to overcome my difficulties. It has inspired me to become the mummy i want to be. All of you have given me hope that this is now achievable. Thank you so much x x x x x