Calling all Mum's of demanding kids - are your fuses as short as mine? :( sorry, bit long)

[balanomorey]

Am wondering if I'm normal or in need of anger management!!
My coming up to 3 yo dd is so demanding, I seem to spend 3 parts of my day bawling her out or saying no - it's so demorilising - I'm sure for her too, although I know I have to set boundaraies, don't I?

Her speech and awareness of what's going on around her is, imo sometimes gobsmacking for her age. She knows exactly what she wants, can ask (demand) for it very articulately and comes out with expressions that very often floor me! She seems to know too much at a young age. But as she is so young, she is obviously so very immature in many other ways and always wants to run before she can walk ("I do it" is her favourite expression) and when i say no, because imo what she is asking for she can't do or it is dangerous to have etc, she goes off on one. She also takes forever to do what I ask - all in all, she can be SOOOO frustrating - but at the same time, adorable and I lurve her to bits!

However, as I said all this continual conflict of interest is wearing me down as I am constantly saying no and shouting to the point where she will say 'don't shout at me' before bursting into tears or she will panic if she knows or thinks she's done something wrong as she will say "sorry, sorry, sorry" over and over and looks genuinely scared I'm going to tear her off a strip .

Feel really bad this morning as we were late getting to nursery and she suddenly decided just as we were going out the door that she needed the potty. I was not best pleased as she has used the potty as an excuse lately to keep getting out of bed or stall bedtime...she sits there for ages insisting she needs to go and nothing happens, so assumed she was playing this game again. This happened last night at 3 in the morning (the sides have just come off her cot, and I think she thinks this is a great excuse for disturbing the household in the middle of the night now that she can get out and tell us she needs a wee)...so this morning I bawled her out for needing the potty (frazzled on the back of a bad night, maybe) and felt awful as she then proceeded to do a big wee...told me to say sorry for shouting at her...and told me how much she loves me ..so have been feeling guilty and crap mum all morning.

Just a bit of a rant really, but make me feel better by telling me I'm not unusual to shout - I hate shouting and am fed up of spending a large part of my day bawling and getting wound up. Am I alone in this?
Thanks for reading, sorry so long, just needed to vent. x.

Hi Yawning, I don't know a lot about Aspergers except that you can have varying degrees and that adults can (and do) live with this quite happily/successfully. Have you had any more information/support on this other than the diagnosis?

balono - thank you for posting this - reading through the advice has really helped me and I hope it has helped you too. No point repeating advice/sympathies etc - but did want to thank you for raising it

My kids are being difficult the last few days, doing the opposite of what they are told, tantrumming, going on and on at me nagging for what they want.

I'm just reminding myself that if I shout at them ALL day (like I have been doing), they just seem to stop hearing it. I need to talk nicely to them and explain things and tell them about consequences and carry them out if necessary. Save shouting for the most extreme bad behaviours so that it will have more effect.

I think my problem is I give them too many chances before I carry out the consequence.

My DP told me a week ago that I have been shouting at my DS too much in recent times. I was a bit shocked at that as I wasn't even properly aware of it. So this week I have been trying to be aware of it and if I feel the urge to raise my voice I curb it - try to find some other way of communicating despite whatever level of frustration. It has been challenging as my Ds is coming up with every increasing will-fullness and corresponding anger if he is thwarted in what he wants. He has got into hitting and kicking me instantly if I say no to anything. It's not all a battlefield as he is also a delightful, funny, playful and hugely affectionate boy but his anger can be so instant and volcanic it can take my breath away. I'm having to re-learn again how to provide boundaries. The hitting/kicking thing is upsetting and I'm having to use threats/punishments about taking away treats like TV programmes - but it's hard at times to be consistent/follow through with that as everything can come so thick and fast I just forget!

Oh God, half term next week I'll have DD demanding stuff all day every day and winding DS up, great!

I CAN do the 'right' things but it takes all my energy and will power to keep calm (and lots of herbal remedies). If I get a bit ill or a bit tired or she does something really bad I'm in danger of losing it and then not being able to tolerate anything for the rest of the day! I can't believe I have to resort to 'herbal drugs' to cope with her!

I don't want to never give her what she wants so I do some of it but she is the sort of child who will push and push to see how much she can get out of you until I get annoyed - then I don't feel like doing anything that she asks me for next time. I suppose I should do a few things then say something like "I've done a few things for you and I will do more later when I've had a rest" DS asks for the occassional thing but he doesn't go on and on at me for one thing after the other and wear me out.

When she is naughty and I tell her off she really doesn't care! Small punishments don't affect her, she just doesn't care! So then I'm thinking of doing really horrible things which will really upset her, just to make her sorry for misbehaving. It feels horrible. I become obsessed with how to upset her and that feels so wrong! If I tell DS off, not even very authoritatively, he cries tragically! I can imagine when DD is older she will say "Well what are you goind to do about it?" when I ask her not to do something.

DD has no idea about people needing any space. She is in my face, in DS's face, in DH's face, going on and on, never stopping talking or wanting things. DS gets overwhelmed by it and ends up crying. It is hard to give him attention that is just for him when she is there because she butts in, talking loudly, physically getting between me and DS, demanding ALL the attention. Even if I send her into the other room eg to get her school uniform on, she is jumping about and making a noise and trying to get us all to take notice of her. She can't seem to stand not having the attention for a second!

Even her friends find it too much sometimes. I've seen one friend go and hide in his bedroom complaining that she talks too much, and she came home from school the other day saying her friends kept running away from her in the playground and "I was only trying to tell them something" but I can imagine that she just wouldn't stop getting in their faces and going on and on at them!

At the moment I'm trying to keep calm and keep explaining that people need space and if she goes on and on at people they get annoyed and won't want to do things for her or be her friend. Is it sinking in though if she isn't really changing her behaviour? When DS is getting ovewhelmed by her I ask him if he would like to come and sit with me away from her for a few moments to get some space and she hates that, so it is some kind of punishment for her and he gets some space and doesn't get so overwhelmed.

I'm just venting really because I find her so wearing and I'm wondering if I will cope with half term! We have some activities planned (not so many that they will be spoilt and overloaded though).

Are you all looking forward to half term?

AN the half term isn't relevant to me given my child's age and my current location, but hope it is going all right for you - better than you anticipated anyhow!? It does sound like a painful dynamic with your DD. I can guess that when that is all going full-swing then the more she pushes for attention the more you pull away - ad infinitum. Do you have time just with her sometimes to do something together - something you enjoy too so you can give her some of your attention happily? And do you think she would enjoy acting/drama?

Thanks SkyDancer, it is going really well so far! I should have known it wouldn't be as bad as I had thought and I shouldn't have got myself wound up!

We are doing some fun things together and I'm actually ENJOYING being with the children! This is a big thing for me because I went through a phase where I found it hard to feel, well anything, for a while.

The key to it has been conquering my anxiety and coming out from inside my head and my preoccupations and seeing what makes the children them and what makes children, children. The anxiety blocked my positive feelings and the preoccupation made me blind to things in the real world. The anxiety was also causing me to get angry and irritable much more often. If it helps anyone, it isn't just 'mental' techniques that are helping, I'm finding herbal remedies helpful as well. The ones I use are Relora (for stress), Rhodiola (for stamina), Ginkgo (for mental clarity), Lemon Balm (for calmness) and also effervescent B vitamins dissolved in a glass of water as soon as I wake up (when I'm normally furious just to be awake!)

I think DD WOULD like drama activities! That is a good idea. I could get her to join a children's drama group. She is 'mad' but I feel she is also very talented and special, and I want to give her opportunities to develop her talents if she wants to.

We both like art and craft and realising there is something we both like and can enjoy together really helps our relationship.

We do have time that is just for DD and me because DS's nursery is open on school holidays so at those times we have 2 days a week which we call DD days when we do things we like together. You are really right about this helping. When we first started doing it I didn't feel very motivated and didn't feel it would make any difference but the improvement in our relationship has happened since we first starting doing 'DD Days'.

Hope everyone else is having a good half term x

Do you know what makes you a fab mum? And that is that you recognise that things need to change and you have posted on here being honest. I am exactly like you and have never had the guts to post or even realised I needed advice.

What we both need to do is remember that they are still just such little people - not even 3 years old! They have no idea about the trouble caused about changing their mind ove choc etc.

And we need to not shout so much - I now try to ignore dd when she is throwing a strop and say to her - when you have stopped crying I will talk to you. After a few minutes she comes to my saying 'i feel better now'. And we can then get on with things.

She is obviously a bright child so maybe you could try doing more things with her - cooking, puzzles, pretend play etc and enjoying your time together.

Thanks for posting, you have helped me to realise that I shout far too much too xx

dear Balanomorey,not sure youll even be reading this post as it was started last sept. but have just come across it and wanted to contribute.i have 6 children, two with SN, so i can honestly say i am not mother earth.i too can shout, but can also see it doesnt achieve anything.i dont know if you have other children so as what to know is age appropriate, but i think this helps.child num 6 is 3yrs old. she is so grown up in her speech, and plays the Wii and X-box like a pro, but, she still likes her bo-bo(bottle) and teddy.having the ability to see things from a childs perspective helps, when the tantrums and the I DO IT starts.agree with previous posts, that being able to second guess what little person may say or respond to given situation, really helps.of course your daughter forgives you when you loose it, my kids do too, but, if you shout alot, she will become anxious and even afraid of your response.she is already saying, sorry, sorry, and i love you.at this point, she is telling you shes frightened, and should be a visual clue for you to stop.this is not the same as ignoring bad behaviour, but altering your response to it. also agree with other posts, telling child when they stop tantrum etc, they can have your attention, is much more affective than yelling or giving more than two punishments. remember she is only coming up for 3-a baby.you cannot have an easy life with one child or ten-you loose that right, when you decide to have a child, no matter what has gone on in your life, or is going on.try to enjoy this stage and remember you are her universe-neither of you have a choice in this.my eldest, is nearly 15yrs old-in a few yrs shell be leaving home-im happy and sad at the thought-where did my baby go?

I'm just popping back on here to say that after my post of Mon 19-Jan-09, we are back to the bad old days again re: DS2's behaviour. I think I've resigned myself to the fact that he is just going to go through these bad phases till some day in the distant future there are more good phases than bad. With it being half-term it's very, very wearing as he is getting on DS1's nerves too and then they wind each other up. Am having to try very hard to keep my temper with him some days, as it just seems that he cries at ANYTHING. And I mean anything - he's such a drama queen over the littlest thing. A lot of the time it's not just whingeing - there are actually loads of tears from him and he just seems beside himself with abject misery at, for example, having to go to pick DS1 up from school when he was engrossed in playing with his trains or something. Soo all a bit at the moment cos I thought we'd kind of left those bad whingey moods of his behind for ever.

Not had chance to read the past months posts yet but will when I get a chance.

Oh, and ActingNormal, the way you describe your DD in your last couple of posts sound EXACTLY like my DS2. He is coming up to age 3, but I think as soon as I can get drama lessons for him, he'll be going there. He also wants all the attention - constantly, and is always showing off. As an example, I took him into Next the other week and was trying on some boots, he went over to a nearby seating area where we could both still see each other but was a bit away from where I actually was. And he was saying in this loud, attention-seeking voice "Oh no, where has my mummy gone?! Where IS she?" And all the while he was looking at me with this big smirk on my face, and also looking around to see what customers were noticing him!!!!! I can't believe him sometimes!! That actually made me go and sit right next to him as I didn't want anyone to think I wasn't supervising him closely enough! How manipulative can they get?!

My DS also does all the jumping about and talking very loudly to get attention. Sounds like I'll have to prepare myself for it going on a few more years - I just hope he can channel some of his energy into entertaining people on the stage when he's older!

hello girls. i haven't been on here for an age so just wanted to say hello (hi rachel! i just realised you posted recently on the meditation thread didn't you. but i didn't recognise your new moniker hence my lack of !) will post properly soon just wanted to say you are all still in my thoughts. also that i am halfway through an amazing book 'buddhism for mothers' which i cannot recommend highly enough as a guide through the stresses and strains as well as the joys of childrearing xxx

Oh good i sympathise with you so much! My daughter is 5 now and i also thought i had a short fuse.

When she was 3 i thought other mum's were sooooo patient in comparison with their lilttle one's.

Then i realised that at times their children displayed behaviour my daughter wouldn't dream of and realised that i hadn't done all bad!

I learnt to chill out a bit and not to shout and instead i would count to 10 and think about how bad the behaviour really was..

So much of it is normal i would only really worry about outright defiance and alway's give them the benefit of the doubt.

Don't beat yourself up, try and learn from each experience it's really hard being a mum no matter how patient you are.

What you feel bad about your child will have forgotten already anyway! As long as you don't use put downs or deny your love for them, kids are very forgiving of the odd cross word..

Katiek! Great to see you again on here

Yesterday

quite a fright as DS fell over backwards into a tree well and hit his head hard on the concrete surround. I heard the dull thump and then paroxysms of tears, a bruise welling up and an a small gash producing an alarming amount of blood. It was horrible but at that point I wasn't too worried, as he's had plenty of minor scrapes in two and half years. But then he wouldn't stop crying and it was the 'wrong' pitch of crying - too high - and he became limp and excessively sleepy. At this point I was off to the local health centre where they patched him up and recommended I got him to the local hospital fast (five minutes and he wasn't to fall asleep) to be checked over/x-rayed. They didn't offer an ambulance, which is weird in retrospect. I rounded up DP, whom I'd managed to scare on the mobile so much he was somewhat beside himself by the time he found us, and we hopped in a taxi with DS to the local hospital. They checked him over very thoroughly including head x-rays and he was fine apparently - but to be watched carefully over a 48 hour period.

Just the threat of a serious injury was so painful. I discovered I understood quite a lot and could be quite effectively insistent in Spanish. I'm so not a fan of him but really felt for David Cameron and his son dying. Excruciating. I just want to rejoice in my DP for a moment because he is such an excellent, loving and brilliant father.

Today DS, despite looking somewhat as if he'd been in a boxing ring the night before, what with his patch, bruise and swollen eyelid, has been fighting fit all day. I made the huge mistake of going to ToysRus to window shop for pushchairs with him. He had a whale of a time trying out every toy he could get his hands on, but I couldn't persuade him to leave the shop. In the end I had to prise him kicking and screaming out of a wendy house and he tried strangling me and then raked his nails down my face, slightly grazing one cornea of my eye. So I think he's feeling all right now

Katiek! Great to see you again on here

Yesterday

quite a fright as DS fell over backwards into a tree well and hit his head hard on the concrete surround. I heard the dull thump and then paroxysms of tears, a bruise welling up and an a small gash producing an alarming amount of blood. It was horrible but at that point I wasn't too worried, as he's had plenty of minor scrapes in two and half years. But then he wouldn't stop crying and it was the 'wrong' pitch of crying - too high - and he became limp and excessively sleepy. At this point I was off to the local health centre where they patched him up and recommended I got him to the local hospital fast (five minutes and he wasn't to fall asleep) to be checked over/x-rayed. They didn't offer an ambulance, which is weird in retrospect. I rounded up DP, whom I'd managed to scare on the mobile so much he was somewhat beside himself by the time he found us, and we hopped in a taxi with DS to the local hospital. They checked him over very thoroughly including head x-rays and he was fine apparently - but to be watched carefully over a 48 hour period.

Just the threat of a serious injury was so painful. I discovered I understood quite a lot and could be quite effectively insistent in Spanish. I'm so not a fan of him but really felt for David Cameron and his son dying. Excruciating. I just want to rejoice in my DP for a moment because he is such an excellent, loving and brilliant father.

Today DS, despite looking somewhat as if he'd been in a boxing ring the night before, what with his patch, bruise and swollen eyelid, has been fighting fit all day. I made the huge mistake of going to ToysRus to window shop for pushchairs with him. He had a whale of a time trying out every toy he could get his hands on, but I couldn't persuade him to leave the shop. In the end I had to prise him kicking and screaming out of a wendy house and he tried strangling me and then raked his nails down my face, slightly grazing one cornea of my eye. So I think he's feeling all right now

Sorry posted twice.

hello sky blardy HELL that was some day and some fright indeed! as you say he seems to be getting over it now - and congratulations on being virtually fluent in the old espanol when the occasion called for it!! must dash (as usual) but promise to come back soon. do check out that book sky, i reckon you would really like it. it's helping me loads - good on emotional states and on remembering that every emotion is transient and WILL pass, including anger/despair/grief/fear etc. big hugs to you all, girls

Hi there Katiek and thanks for the greetings . Well that book certainly sounds really good and despite the fact that I've been a practising Buddhist for about 23 years I still reckon I could do with reading it !! I mean that, as there is very little teaching out there on linking practice to parenthood. I think my practice has informed and helped with all sorts of things but the lifestyle change is so huge any guidance on bringing the two together is fantastic.

sky - any time you would like some advice on something you've actually been quietly getting on with yourself for over two decades, come straight to me won't you - always happy to oblige sorry chum!!! but yes, ploughing on regardless, i think you will love the book bcs i agree - from what i read it's hard to actually marry up the somewhat esoteric average buddhist text (am two-thirds of the way through 'tibetan book of living and dying' and throughly bamboozled on the bardos/stages of dying/need for exotic tibetan saint to be present at bedside to achieve 'good' death etc but, at the same time, loving it!) and real life especially in its toddler-challenge incarnation. 'buddhism for mothers' is brilliant - down-to-earth sympathetic insightful and wise. she is an aussie i believe and just says it like it is.i like it a lot. do come onto the meditation thread now and again (can't do links but it's quite a prominent one in the religious/spiritual topic) bcs you would be a massive boon to it maybe you know some of the regular more experienced posters on it already. and do CAT me anytime bcs i sometimes feel a bit guilty for hijacking this worthy thread and diverting onto this sort of thing - sorry everyone!! have a lovely day all

If I knew what CAT was I would CAT you Katiek! I don't mind giving my email address on here if that's easier (?) because like you I don't want to hijack the thread but, oh yes, I like going off on this particular tangent and I'll look out for the other link - thank you.

sky email me anytime - CATting is emailing within mumsnet but here is my email address [email protected] i would love to hear from you. just hosted large drinks party and been standing up for 5 hours straight - how the hell do hairdressers manage that all day every day?! calves ache madly and am fit for nothing but an early bed! night night all x

Hello, haven't been on here for ages but sometimes things seem to flare up again. Can I ask you ladies a question? - How do I know whether my children know that I love them? Apart from the times when I tell them.

I feel guilty for telling them off a lot in case they feel like I don't love them but they are naughty a lot and wouldn't it be just as wrong to never tell them off and let them get away with bad behaviour?

I used to get angrier with them than what I thought a 'normal' person would because of my own mental issues but I've worked a lot on them now and it is quite a lot better. Sometimes I still can't help getting angry though. DH gets really angry as well and I think of him as being 'normal'. He just blew up at DD and I thought how could anyone not get angry in that situation and maybe it was never all because of my mental issues but because DD can be very very challenging!

Just now she had decided she was going to have a prize because she had done some writing (nobody asked her to). I wouldn't let her root through the kitchen drawers turfing everything out and making a mess and just taking what she wanted so she got angry. She took turns to shout at me and DH demanding that we give her something. DH said all we have got is little boxes of raisins but she thought that wasn't good enough. Even if we wanted to give her something more exciting we just haven't got anything else at the moment. She wouldn't accept this and wouldn't stop shouting at us in a spoilt brat way so DH lost it and put her in her room.

Surely we did nothing wrong? So why do I feel guilty? I'm scared she will feel 'got at' and unloved.

DD is so demanding all the time and talking so much and right in everyone's faces even when we are trying to do something else, and so active, jumping around, making loads of noise. It scrambles my brain (which is easily scrambled and I get anxious easily anyway).

She wants so much attention all the time and wants us to do so many things for us that lots of times I have to say no or ask her not to talk to me for a minute otherwise I wouldn't get anything done and just wouldn't be able to think straight because it is like a constant bombardment. But every time I do say no I feel like I am rejecting her and making her feel unloved. I've tried giving her all the attention she wants but it makes her want more. The inlaws were here yesterday giving the kids loads of attention and today DD is even worse!

So I suppose the question is, when I say no to some of her demands or don't give her attention every time she wants it, do you think this makes her feel unloved?

My mind is so scrambled I don't know whether DD is in the wrong or I am in the wrong.

It gets so bad that I become resistant to doing anything she wants whenever she comes near me because I feel so done in from her non stop ways. I also feel the more she gets the more she wants. I don't want to make her spoilt. I'm having trouble working out how to find a moderate way and how practically to do this. DS wants things but not so constantly and I don't feel resistant to doing what he wants.

And anyway WHY is it never enough for her?

I think it's reasonable to say no - sometimes you have to. I think it's reasonable to get angry - but it's best if you can say 'I'm feeling very angry and frustrated by this. I need some time to cool down.' Or similar. That way, you're showing her the behaviour you'd like her to have.

You're not losing it when anything doesn't go your way, and shouting. That's not good behaviour, from anyone.

Can you make an effort to find activities you both enjoy doing, and do them with her, sometimes?

AN, your dd sounds a lot like mine... very spirited, very demanding.

I know it's nigh-on impossible at times, and guilt-inducing but I think the worst thing we can do for our kids is be afraid to say 'no' to them. We have to bring them up to live in the real world where they'll be faced with disappointment from time to time.

I've started working on the principle of pausing and asking myself whether what she wants is actually feasible/workable. If it isn't i turn to her and explain why not as calmly and frankly as i can. Offer a reasonable alternative, then when the tantrum inevitably kicks off i have to force myself to ignore her for a bit. The idea is that she'll calm down when she's ready. Quite often it leads to her hitting me or destroying stuff, if that happens my last resort is to put her in the living room (which we've sectioned off with stairgates) and say 'Hitting is wrong. Let's both calm down.'

I find i feel far less guilty about this than i do if i end up arguing with her (which usually ends up with me being horrible and shouty). Gives me a chance to breath and get some physical distance between us, which helps, even if i can still hear her screaming like a banshee from the next room!

So you could look at it as actually showing your love for her by not giving in to her every time.

i also just wanted to share a quick thought about the 'arts and crafts' thing that lots of posters have been talking about.

i'm an arty type, a-level, art college etc. i was always really into it. some of my happiest childhood memories are just sitting and painting away, or cutting and sticking. i still am happy as larry spending an afternoon painting away at my easel (dh takes dd out for a few hours -it's my idea of heaven.)

I think perhaps the problems that are arising might be more to do with the 'crafts' bit that the 'art' bit. Personally, i can't remember having experienced the kind of frustration described here where art was concerned. For me, it was always a peaceful thing because there is not right or wrong. I think it was because my parents showed me that the joy was in the act of creation (sorry if it sounds pretentious as hell) and not in 'getting it right' or getting it perfect. On the 'crafts' side of things those little craft kit things annoyed the hell out of me and still do, for the reason that the photo on the cover is of something made by an adult with a lifetimes experience in needlework/ crochet/ foil etching and yet the kit says ages 5 and up or whatever.

so my advice; stick with Art, but encourage them to experiment with mixing colours, contrasting them on the page, creating abstract shapes, mucking about with huge wodges of cardboard, etc (because you can't get those 'wrong') maybe hold the crafts for a time when you can both give it your undivided attention and guide them through it step by step.