Calling all Mum's of demanding kids - are your fuses as short as mine? :( sorry, bit long)

[balanomorey]

Am wondering if I'm normal or in need of anger management!!
My coming up to 3 yo dd is so demanding, I seem to spend 3 parts of my day bawling her out or saying no - it's so demorilising - I'm sure for her too, although I know I have to set boundaraies, don't I?

Her speech and awareness of what's going on around her is, imo sometimes gobsmacking for her age. She knows exactly what she wants, can ask (demand) for it very articulately and comes out with expressions that very often floor me! She seems to know too much at a young age. But as she is so young, she is obviously so very immature in many other ways and always wants to run before she can walk ("I do it" is her favourite expression) and when i say no, because imo what she is asking for she can't do or it is dangerous to have etc, she goes off on one. She also takes forever to do what I ask - all in all, she can be SOOOO frustrating - but at the same time, adorable and I lurve her to bits!

However, as I said all this continual conflict of interest is wearing me down as I am constantly saying no and shouting to the point where she will say 'don't shout at me' before bursting into tears or she will panic if she knows or thinks she's done something wrong as she will say "sorry, sorry, sorry" over and over and looks genuinely scared I'm going to tear her off a strip .

Feel really bad this morning as we were late getting to nursery and she suddenly decided just as we were going out the door that she needed the potty. I was not best pleased as she has used the potty as an excuse lately to keep getting out of bed or stall bedtime...she sits there for ages insisting she needs to go and nothing happens, so assumed she was playing this game again. This happened last night at 3 in the morning (the sides have just come off her cot, and I think she thinks this is a great excuse for disturbing the household in the middle of the night now that she can get out and tell us she needs a wee)...so this morning I bawled her out for needing the potty (frazzled on the back of a bad night, maybe) and felt awful as she then proceeded to do a big wee...told me to say sorry for shouting at her...and told me how much she loves me ..so have been feeling guilty and crap mum all morning.

Just a bit of a rant really, but make me feel better by telling me I'm not unusual to shout - I hate shouting and am fed up of spending a large part of my day bawling and getting wound up. Am I alone in this?
Thanks for reading, sorry so long, just needed to vent. x.

Hi Skydancer-I'm still here. Could have written your last but one post. However it would have been about my 9 year old not my toddler. He's quite ill really and worn out from a long term at school, but boy has he been pushing the boundaries. Dh and I are exhausted.

Christmas can a difficult time for families. The DC get whipped up into a state of frenzy with all the excitement. They are then exhausted, don't get enough sleep, then misbehave. Parents get stressed out trying to create the perfect christmas, then have to deal with all the difficult behaviour from their DC. This is my experience anyway.

Obviously there are enjoyable bits too. I really love getting stuff together for the DCs' stockings, and watching them open them is even better.

How's everyone else getting on?

Oh, I am busy renewing my vow to stop shouting I ranted so much at dd1 the other night, I nearly lost my voice . We have introduced a rather complicated points system, which seems to be working a bit (but not sure if it is just down to novelty value atm!) and I have introduced a "no-shouting" rule- which includes DH and me as well. Unfortunately, as many of you have said, I find mornings and dinner-time/ school pick up time very stressful. Having to be somewhere at a set time is something I loathe. And to make matters worse, ds (13mths) has gone from a lovely smiley baby to a truculent toddler, who roars and cries at the drop of a hat and wants picked up all the time- at the most inopportune moments, which makes my fuse a lot shorter with the girls

But I am trying! [hopeful emoticon] One day I will be a lovely calm and serene mum

Mimizan, so glad you said this: "Christmas can a difficult time for families. The DC get whipped up into a state of frenzy with all the excitement. They are then exhausted, don't get enough sleep, then misbehave. Parents get stressed out trying to create the perfect christmas, then have to deal with all the difficult behaviour from their DC. This is my experience anyway".

It is so true and very reassuring to hear someone else say it so I know it really is normal!

I'm exhausted too and probably misbehaving as well!

hello girls
oh yes...i still shudder at the memory of xmas day last year - we spent it at my in-laws, who told us their system was not to open presents until after lunch, much to the kids' appalled horror! a nightmareish 5 hours then ensued, as i was on 'DD-containment duty' - a painful and tense time! hoping for better things this year (and waking up in our own house on xmas day, which should help masses!)
back soon - nursing a cold, so off to bed. spent a chunk of today trying to instil the embryonic beginnings of a social conscience in the kids (ever the optimist ) by getting them to write a card each to a political prisoner of their choice (from an amnesty leaflet) which was...interesting! led to some good discussions at any rate. trying to explain dictatorship and the concept of 'prisoners of conscience' to a 5 and 7 yr old was challenging to say the least

Wow Katiek, you must have a lot of energy, encouraging your DC to write letters to prisoners, especially when you are feeling under the weather. However I probably used up more energy refereeing for the DSs while they were on the PC, and dealing with their strops.

Acting normal- I am sure christmas is stressful for most parents, unless they are loaded financially, and have lots of positive family support.(I just wanted an excuse to see what that smiley looks like)

hi I hope I am not intruding but it was suggested I have a look at this thread. I have read through a bit of it but not all to be honest. I would like to tell you our story if you are willing to listen.

I got so angry at ds1 yesterday I was beside myself I was ringing handbells at church for the Christmas program. I brought him with me for second service - he wanted to come and has done so before. I put a little chair behind me (I'm on the back row) so that he could watch us play from there. Halfway through the piece I noticed out of the corner of my eye that the chair was empty Not only had he gotten up he was crawling around on the floor under the tables of handbell ringers and at one point halfway up the stairs to the pulpit area I was absolutely mortified. I managed to get him home and then told him to go to his room. I just had him stay in there for an hour or so. He's 5 years old and certainly should know better

yawningmonster - welcome and of COURSE you are not intruding - as if! it would be great if you shared your experiences with us. please do when you find the time. we're all ears.
jabber - feel for you!!! you are very brave to take your kids to church at all - i sometimes lurk on the religious and spiritual threads (we've bumped into each other there haven't we ) and am amazed at how many people apparently have their DCs trained enough to take them regularly to church. mine groan at the very mention of the word . as does DH, so wonder where they get that from . i am sure you did the right thing and that he will remember the consequences of his 'misdeeds'. my 5 yr old DS was reported as naughty from school recently.nothing major but a couple of minor incidents which i was concerned about. when i found out he had already gone home with a friend for his first-ever sleepover. DH and i had a rapid discussion and arranged a swat-team-esque swoop on my friend's house to retrieve him. he was devastated, but it was an effective punishment (for once...not usually my specialty ).
better start work...x

thanks katie, it will be a bit long but I just don't know what of our history contributes to the way ds is and how much he would be this way anyway iykwim.
So ds was born 4 years ago with a bowel condition. I won't go into intricate detail but over the next 18months he had surgery, weekly blood tests, severe reflux, extreme difficulty in processing solid food, xrays, barium meals, constipation, a great deal of pain, motor delays (did not roll until 10months)and food and environmental allergies, he was failure to thrive (surprise surprise) He also had extreme reactions to immunisations and we have chosen not to complete the immunisation schedule at this stage. He breastfed every two hours around the clock as he needed small and often and he cried (screamed pretty much all day long) In the two and a half years since then things have still been quite intense and needless to say we have a four year old now who is very, very sensitive to anything intrusive such as hairwashing, nailcutting, baths, clothing, touch, hairbrushing, haircutting, temperature, noise, etc. He has a very high need to control his environment and everyone in it. He has very unusual play skills and almost no ability to entertain himself. He still has difficulty with sleeping, he still has environmental allergies, he has great trouble in seperating from me and has only in the last few months started to cope with being left with dad, grandparents and childminder without a major reaction. We are very much in the camp of positive parenting and attachment parenting but to be honest it has been trial and error with ds as he couldn't co sleep as his sensitivity to touch meant that all hell broke loose if you brushed against him, we don't shout (or to be honest we very rarely shout but I have been driven to it on occasion), we don't smack. We have plenty of positive experiences and feedback for him. We try to be very accepting of who he is without being permissive of inappropriate behaviour. We believe we are very united, consistent and firm about our boundaries but even so we have
daily
Kicking, biting, shouting, name calling, punching, throwing of items etc. Just for completeness sake I will also share that I am 21 wks pregnant (I will admit to feeling dreadfully bad about this now as I think it is unfair on almost everyone...on ds as I don't think he will cope, on the baby who I shouldn't be subjecting to the way things are, on DH as he has enough to deal with, on me as I'm not sure I am up to the challenge of two when I can't even manage one)

thanks yawning. thank you for sharing your story and being brave enough to admit to your feelings regarding your pregnancy. so much to process i will come back later. i wonder if jabber might be able to help you as she has experience of a condition known as sensory processing disorder (have i got that right jabber? ) - have you read of this? it does sound like your little one might have some features? at work (nominally!) so better go but back soon x

katiek what a marvelous memory you have! Yes, ds1 has sensory processing disorder and it sounds like your ds is a prime candidate for that diagnosis. We did not know what it was until he was four and were just trying to deal with it on our own. Then I read a book called the Highly Sensitive Child. What an awakening!! I got him to an occupational therapist who diagnosed SPD and got him started on a therapy program. She recommended that we read the Out of Sync Child which gave some great recommendations of things we could do at home. I would highly recommend that you take him in for an evaluation. It can make such a difference. Ds1 is still a handful but we have managed to get him desensitized to some things and life is not quite as stressful. It is an ongoing thing of course.

The other thing is not to feel guilty about having another child. My dh was not at all supportive of having a second child but ds2 has been the best thing that has happened to our family - especially ds1 It has also been nice for me to experience being a mother to an NT child.

Oh, and we have bowel issues here too so I can sympathize. Ds1 has not needed surgery but has had 3 fecal impactions and undergone colon rehabilitation over the last 2 years which really put a strain on us, especially on top of his other issues. For some reason bowel issues and hypersensitivity and/or autism frequently go together.

ooh jabberwocky you are a star - i hoped you'd come back soon. it does sound like you and yawningmonster have a lot in common with what you've been through. must dash - school pick-up looming - but read you both with much interest - and sympathy. my child is definitely in the 'highly sensitive' category but nothing like what you both describe. and i just about broke down in her earlier years, life was so tough! DD was born ten weeks early and her first two years were festooned with (respiratory) illness which was a rollercoaster in itself. so i only have partial insight, but enough to know that daily life is exceedingly challenging with these children, fantastic though they are in so many ways. you both have my respect, in spades. back later x

Hey all have been following this thread and have found it incredibly useful. I hope you don't mind if I vent a bit, feel like I will explode if I don't and need some non-judgemental people to listen.

The past 2 days at home with dd have been bloody horrendous. Quite frankly I don't know how I've got through the day. Does the pure mundaneness of looking after a toddler drive anyone else mad? I am emotionally and physically wrecked. In the past hour I have had "mummmmmmmmy" screamed at me 34 times, have made 3 drinks, provided 2 snacks, taken dd to the toilet 2 times, completed a jigsaw and helped dd with some drawing and painting. I absolutely know that as her mother it is my job to cater to her every need, but bloody hell it's boring. I feel like a domestic drudge without even 5 minutes to myself. I am at the beck and call of a 3 year old who cannot entertain herself for 5 minutes.

I am counting down the minutes until her bedtime so I can have a cup of tea and just do nothing. It doesn't help I suppose that dh is out again and today was my works christmas party but of course cant get a babysitter, so am probably feeling sorry for myself.

Find it all so depressing, it doesnt help that dd has been in a whiny mood all day, not her fault, shes probably picked up on her miserable cow of a mother...

Vent away! Fwiw 3 was definitely ds1's worst year. He was no problem as a two year old so I thought I had it made Could you try to start having her do some things on her own? We have juice boxes and a little box of mommy-approved snacks at the bottom of the pantry. Even if you have to help open the package etc. it's nice to say "Well, go help yourself in the pantry, mommy's busy right now" It can be incredibly stressful, boring and unfulfilling ime. Also remember, if you give a difficult/demanding child an inch she'll take a mile! Hand her some crayons and paper and tell her to go draw for 20 minutes (while mummy has a G&T, lol)

katiek, can't imagine dealing with respiratory issues for 2 years. I've had a tiny dose of breathing machine, etc and it's tough! Glad things are better in that respect. And you remind me I need to get back on the meditation thread. Still have not found a regular time to practice but it does help at night when I take the time.

hi thank you everyone. I have called for an assessment with a child psychologist. The catalist was actually at playgroup this morning when another mum came up to me and said very discretely that she was a child psychologist and did I feel that I needed more support with ds. I said oh hell yes and she said that at playgroup she wears her mum hat not her psychologist hat but that she thought it would benefit us both to go for an assessment.

slowly - as jabber says, vent away. 3 was my nemesis year with DD. been onwards and upwards ever since. won't go into boring, oft-repeated-on-this-thread saga of my troubles with her at that stage, suffice to say i'm with you in spirit. remember it all like it was yesterday.
yawning - good on ya! as the aussies would say. definitely a step forward, well done. keep us posted and do get hold of those books jabber recommended, i am sure you will recognise so much of what they describe. x

arrrgghhh I know from other threads I am handling ds all wrong but I am really trying. Today I took him to the Santa Grotto with his gran and he was fantastic and I told him so. He wanted to stop at the park on the way home so I said yes. Park has a large lake in middle and ds wanted to run around the lake on his own and I said no he couldnt but he could run ahead a bit. Anyway he stomped and screamed and was shouting I have to do it and ran up and kicked me and then started to run off around the lake which is huge and I am pregnant. I knew I couldnt catch him so I went over to the car and started it hoping that would scare him into coming back. It seemed to work and he actually got into the carseat quite nicely until I reached over to do his straps up and he slapped me in the eye "I wanted to run around the lake" I said we would not be stopping for lunch but would go straight home...screaming match in the back. Anyway get back home and make lunch there and spend 2 hours reading stories, drawing and then washing marker off the table. He then needed to go to the toilet but refused to put on his trousers again. (Ok I should have probably left it but I didnt.) I said I could help him now or he could do it by himself later. He said he wasnt doing it at all so I left it. He then noticed it was 3pm and wanted the tv on and so I said when you go and put your pants on you can watch tv. He told me I had to go and get them for him and (again I should have got them)I said no I offered help before, if you want tv you get your pants and put them on. He told me I had to say please (I just cant see when to stop) I said there is no please involved you get them you watch tv, you dont get them you dont watch tv. I moved away at this point as he was most likely to try to hurt me and sure enough he ran after me and kicked me. I have now put him in his room again. He is just so desperate for control and it is the demanding orders that really get to me.

yawning I can so relate.Many similar days with ds1. In fact I put him in time-out today within 15 minutes of him coming home from school sometimes it seems like everything is a struggle and I keep trying to remind myself to pick my battles but it's hard when it's all a battle.

We did a psychological evaluation last year at the same time that we were going through all of the OT diagnosis and initial therapy. I wanted to make sure i wasn't missing anything. so he wound up doing 6 months of play therapy every other week with a final summing up that there was nothing wrong in that area. A relief at least to cross off one thing iykwim.

I have decided that hitting, kicking or just out and out rudeness is an automatic time-out with no warnings. It has come as a bit of a shock to him but I just can't take it anymore. He's not really violent in general but more flailing out of control type stuff. I wind up physically carrying him to his room for time-out most of the time and it's not going to be long before I am unable (only 5 feet tall myself).

Anyway, I keep hoping for the day that we have worked through enough things that life is a bit more stable in the jabber household. I am considering getting an evaluation for Asperger's as well. Many children with Asperger's do have SPD but that;s not to say that just b/c he has SPD he is on the autistic spectrum.

ho hum, I'm rambling now so I should probably sign off...

ds is having an assessment in late January. I got the call today and we all go in a see the specialist. I am thinking along the lines of Aspergers to be honest as although other posters have suggested we parent in a more positive way I honestly believe that we have. I know we use time out now but it really has been a last resort for us as I just couldn't take the daily abuse.
Ds does not play alone at all. Ds does not play with toys or when he does it is in kind of unusual ways. Ds does not appear to have any drive for autonomy, he has no desire to do things for himself eg would like to be carried everywhere, feed, dressed, entertained, accompanied every hour of the day, when playing together he will try his hardest not to actually participate he would rather direct others. Ds does not separate well from me, he has only recently started to have what we refer to as low level reactions to dad, granny and cm looking after him. On playdates and at playgroup he would rather I play with him than the other children and when he does interact with them he does not get the idea of playing with them at all. He is very literal and you cannot use phrases like "Ds that behaviour just doesn't cut it or even "I'm pooped" he gets confused and upset by what he sees as inappropriate use of words pooped always means soiled for example. He freaks out if say he is jumping and someone says "Oh are you being a frog/kangaroo" He will scream and get very upset that he is a boy not a frog etc. This coupled with the extreme reactions to sensory input is starting to be more than just "him" if ykwim. I think we need help. I hope that January gives us some clues about whether he is just unique and we are dealing with things in all the wrong ways or whether there is something underlying such as SPD or aspergers.

slowlylosingit- I can so identify with your feelings. At times, I find the day-to-day looking after a 3 year-old incredibly wearing and intense. Even things which are actually endearing or cute (e.g. constant questioning) can drive me nuts if I'm having a bad time of it. It really can feel like a treadmill at times and it is the hardest job I've ever had to do. Your feelings are so normal but that probably doesn't make you feel any better! Try to make the most of any opportunities to have a little bit of time to yourself, even when you're with your DD. It's not wrong to stick a DVD on now and then to give yourself a bit of time. I even tell my DD 'mummy is tired and is going to have a cup of tea and some peace and quiet for 20 minutes'. She knows I will obviously get her a drink/help her if she needs the loo etc but that otherwise I would like her to do something quietly (watch DVD/play). I must be doing this more frequently than I realised as she will now say things like: 'I want a piece of quiet', 'Are you having a piece of quiet mummy?'

Yawning monster, I think that your ds has had a really difficult time in the first year, and it may take longer for him to get to that emotional intelligence that most children acquire but it sounds as if he's got lots going for him. He loves running/adventures, he can enjoy outings he loves being with you, he can articulate a lot of his feelings in words not just in violent reactions, and as you say he has learnt to relate to some people. You must be doing a lot of things right to give him those skills and interactions. But, it's so incredibly timeconsuming, I'm not surprised you are feeling emotionally drained. I'm so glad that you may get some professional support advice in January, even just for someone to say, this isn't you, it's the way he is...and maybe this method of dealing with him will help a little...

Hi ym just to say you are absolutely not handling your ds all wrong.You are extremely measured in your responses,caring and patient.Our natural tendency is towant our children to develop well in all areas and if that doesn't seem to be going smoothly[however temporary the problem is]we want to put it right and think we have done it wrong.I'm sure some of the things you mention are v.common in elder or only children [like wanting to be in charge and not playing alone]and actually,all children at this age to some degree.This will most likely pass within a year or two.Probably you both have very strong love for each other and spend a lot of time together and on a simple level it can be quite irritating when a child wants to be in control and it is difficult to judge how much to give in~ we've been there and made the same [and more] mistakes.
Go easy on yourself and I hope the other threads have not lowered your confidence because you're doing really really well and its not easy with your first childcos you want everything to be so perfect for them. Take carexx.

thanks cranberry,
I decided that for a while we need to completely back off ds and try our best to do things the way he needs them done so feed him when he wants it, dress him when he wants it etc. I also tried really, really hard to ignore the hitting today to see how that went but just was awful. It was bath nite and one of the few things that we insist upon usually we are sticking to includes washing his hair once a week. So anyway as usual it was awful and violent on his part. I tried to completely ignore him and then when it was finished he got out of bath dripping wet punching and punching me so I just kept repeating clearly and firmly Do not hit me and catching and deflecting his arms so he tried to kick and bite as well. I kept calm and kept repeating the message hoping he would calm down but he just started shouting really loudly, dont hold my arms. I kept up my broken record but started to walk away. He ran after me throwing things and getting kicks and punches in when he could. After about 10 minutes (I know I didn't last very long did I) I couldn't take it and said if he kept it up he would go to his room and as it was bedtime he would stay there. He is currently still screaming. Arrgghh this is going to be a long road but the time out really isn't working so wanted to try the backing off, ignoring as much as possible route. Not sure what to do once he calms down tbh but I guess in line with the positive parenting approach I should try to calmly talk to him and get back on a positive note.

My children all hated having their hairwashed, UNTIL I used the funny mirror method. Show them the effect of the bubbles in their hair, and make funny shape with it. That helped a bit.
Actually I don't really wash their hair much, just let them float around in bath and pretend to be mermaids, sharks, dolphins. They just hated having their hair wet by someone else, fear of shampoo in eyes etc, but didn't mind going underwater of their own volition.

Poor you
Think you did really well.
Have you tried dry flannel on his eyes,and putting shampoo in bathwater as bubbles and splashing discreetly with hand while playing.
He has strong feelings,they are expressed as outbursts/tantrums.He is sensitive.
That DOES NOT MEAN he will be an aggressive child/adult later on.
Go with the flow~ and I stop speaking when the going gets tough for a few mins,then distract and move on.
There used to be tv programmes over here by a child clin.psychologist and one of her things was to tell the child every hour " I love you ,you are mums best boy" [feels a bit funny if being aggressive] but it worked.I should say it was not during tantrums,then the idea was to sit /stand quietly out ofarms reachif possible.
I don't really have THE answers I'm afraid just trying to give support and pass on tips.Look after yourselfxx