What a wonderful thread! So much good advice. After dropping my nearly 5 year old girl off at school I was wondering again about why they behave so well for Nursery, Childminder and now School. And not for parents. And about when you feel all that is left seems to be to shout. And what a failure it makes you feel, and how sad and angry that they have somehow changed your own personality at that moment in time.
I suddenly found that it was past 12 noon and I was only on Oct 14. So I had to stop. My reply could easily take me hours it has been so fantastic to read everything - so far. Now I have migraine.
So, just saying hello and thank you to Bala for starting this well-overdue, for me, thread. And what brilliant mothers everybody obviously is here. One of the hardest jobs in the world, I think.
Bala - what is about you and bins! The bin - again!
storytime goes in the bin
dollies goes in the bin
so Thomas, as far as she's concerned, is in the bin but he isn?t is he?
A expensive behaviour strategy!
Do you need to throw out some mental rubbish from the past - that you feel somehow that you cannot?
Not meaning to bring any more psychology into this - previous thread was more than enough! And unlikely - it seemed to me?? What do you call them - a mole or something. A non-real poster. Any truly pathological anger going on here never showed itself did it! Just politeness and maturity. Na, na, na, na, na. Sorry.
Noted a few key points today, that have helped me and I empathise with. Sorry not to know where they have all come from. Some are mine - others I noted down because I thought they were poignant and are in ??. Some thoughts for surverys of these children maybe - or are they just normal and we think they are more difficult? I am not trying to make them into oddities!! Synopsis and supporting points made mostly. And some questions.
?Distraction yes - and Humour - Drama Queens!? Not to take it all too seriously might help.
Love. If you feel deep down that you are on their side and that each day is a new one - I think there will never be any damage.
We may be looking at Relationships that last for life - since there is so much honesty here and little in the way of control. The Positive side?
?Raising Girls? says that it is ok to express our angry and frustration sometimes - because it shows our children that we are human?
Including them in decsion making - but not too much
«What you should say is Thank you Mummy»
Consistency - Sticking to things/methods that you have chosen
Mimi- «She said she saves her moaning for her Mum, but what are you meant to do if you haven't got a Mum to moan to?»
Do you realise what you have said here! It is so important to this thread ? we moan and take things out on our mums! The more they will take - the more we might even do it ourselves! Boundaries - or the parents will be consumed. And the child does not really want that. Cruel to be Kind!
unconditional love ? - for babies - when is it not the right message anymore though? «Love you even though you now know better?« Others wont do will they? Though you don?t want them to be all-giving generous totally unselfish beings etc etc in this grabbing society. Hard to get the balance right - but we know how we want them to behave, I suppose and then they must decided the rest. Agree not conditional upon exam success!
«so self-confident, always willing to try something new and ooze independence « - children are different, children of mums here are harder work than average I think. And so more demanding. I wonder if there is an overlap between their characterisitics - and those of their parents? Lots of helpful, sensitive people on here.
?karate class where she absolutely kicks ass « - has reminded me I need to sign her up!
«that sleep and routine essential for these kids « - I agree and think they probably push bedtimes later too!
Confusing world anyway - full of competition. Prizes from school starting. Mine always hates those party games where there are winners and losers. It was such a shock at first to see her, usually so extrovert and confident - sit on my knee at ?statues?. ?I cant do it?. Is she right, or wrong? I shall have a clown for her 5th Birthday!
The Chocolate Saga - "oh no, that's a shame, isn't it, the man has already put it through the till so we'll have to put the kinder egg back. I know you really wanted the kinder egg, too. Never mind, though, as next time we need petrol we'll come here, hey, and buy a kinder egg then - how about that?" "let's get it next time, would that be good?" type of thing is met with a "NOOOOO!!!!! I want it NOWWWW!", and then I've just had to accept that no amount of poncey empathising is going to calm them down and we just have to get out of there pronto!
I have found this way a saviour also! Even though not every time a syou say!
«I just think he's not naturally comfy in himself having to be a toddler» I have never heard anybody else say this - but I always knew it to be the case. She was often bored before she could move her arms and legs better and do stuff.
«She always wanted to please us, so just being disappointed in her upsets her«- I hoped for that. I expected that would work for me and never raised my voice at all for the first 3 years. But - it didn?t! I got the «laugh in the face» thing somebody else mentioned!
joogly
«The thing is, she is a real wee character, and very funny. dd1 comes through screaming that dd2 nipped her, so I call her, and she stamps past me, rolling her eyes, saying "OK, OK, I'm GOING to the naughty step!" She is very hard to discipline, and sometimes I am at my wits end with her. We have the "why it's wrong to hit/ scratch your sister, and she just rolls her eyes and says "Well, I've STOPPED now, haven't I? I'm not doing it NOW, OK?" Or she lies, blatantly, and while staring me straight in the eye: today for example "I DIDN'T bite her- I was just nosing her and my teeth got caught!" What do you do??? So I said "Biting is unacceptable in this house. AS is hitting and scratching and nasty behaviour in general. OK???" And she said "But what about nosing?" AARGH!»
Get this kind of thing too. «An answer for everything!» kind of child.
«When it comes to my own I suppose they know which buttons to press to get me going.« Because they know we really love them ? and so they can? Will people just treat us as they can. Do we let them «get away with it». If they treat others differently - they know how to behave?
«They really don't see us as real human beings with our own needs, do they?!» Do we have to make them - or just wait for this?
«Sarcasm» - this is what I, sadly do, on the occassions when I get angry - about twice a month I would say - I threw the feltips on the floor this morning which is why I looked on here today - but I just got the «Answer for everything« again - «mummy you?ve made a mess - you shouldn?t do that!» Probably didn?t understand what the hell I was doing - but I got so cross seeing her put all the tops on the feltips and neatly back into their box at school - and then at home?!
ActingNormal - Your two sound quite opposite children - maybe they compensate for each other a little and maybe will be quite tolerant of differences in people later in life! It was lovely to hear that your Bathtime with her and time to yourself thing worked out so well!
Katie - great posts. Art & craft - Have you ever seen the French & Saunders sketch where they so some babysitting with toddlers doing A&C around the table! It is really funny.
AN - «Because she is so demanding I try to 'avoid' her because I find it too much and she becomes even more demanding and we are in a vicious cycle» Been there so many times - especially with an only child maybe - but easing off a bit now she is nearly 5yrs old.
Keaau - «We have to remember they are the most precious things in the world to us and would hate to damage them in any way.»
sky dancer - «I think one key is to simply believe in your love for your child (and who hasn't had moments when you fantasise about passing them on to a good home?
This made me laugh! And I agree.»
I don?t think we will if we love them. Only if there is a constant underlying dislike - usually related to transference problems - re genetics links to others that we don?t like - and immaturity. They go together. That is one of the most damaging things I think. We should all be seen as individuals. Also not being harder on them for negative things that we see in ourselves. Or try to mould and change them and live through them too much. Better to want a bit of your own space then - and occassionaly lose your temper. More healthy, probably. I see none of thes problems in posters here.
Lucel - «I have perfected the silent scream - you turn away from them, open your mouth and silently scream for a few seconds until I calm down.»
Death by monkey - «Be at their level - towering over my little boy ?»
Other sideofthechannel - 'that sounds bossy, can you think of a nicer way to ask'
'I'll do it for you when you've asked me politely"
mimic her bossiness and then say 'try again in a kind voice'
Silly mummy! When will I remember what a big girl DD is!"
That works for me too.
Tips - get a ?
Hamster - absolutely great! So long as you don?t lose it in the kitchen. Easy and something that they can be the «owner» of, love, transference objects in so many ways, discipline it ? sad to see her tell it off so gently and kindly - but then it is like those naughty DVDs behind the cushions! Not really doing anything wrong! Maybe they sometimes do see what they do like that. And getting down to their eye level is good isn?t it - as stated. Harder to shout then. You will find yourself talking more. Hard to do when Knees and Back hurt though. Maybe put her/him up on the table?
Ipod - Learn a language in the Park if they still want the swing after 30minutes!
Forgiving, forgetting the bad stuff and trying again every day. Like we should do in every area of our lives.
Look forward to reading the rest of the thread. And keeping up-to-date a bit! Thanks. Hope you don?t mind the re-iteration.