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Behaviour/development

Talk to others about child development and behaviour stages here. You can find more information on our development calendar.

Calling all Mum's of demanding kids - are your fuses as short as mine? :( sorry, bit long)

580 replies

balanomorey · 24/09/2008 12:07

Am wondering if I'm normal or in need of anger management!!
My coming up to 3 yo dd is so demanding, I seem to spend 3 parts of my day bawling her out or saying no - it's so demorilising - I'm sure for her too, although I know I have to set boundaraies, don't I?

Her speech and awareness of what's going on around her is, imo sometimes gobsmacking for her age. She knows exactly what she wants, can ask (demand) for it very articulately and comes out with expressions that very often floor me! She seems to know too much at a young age. But as she is so young, she is obviously so very immature in many other ways and always wants to run before she can walk ("I do it" is her favourite expression) and when i say no, because imo what she is asking for she can't do or it is dangerous to have etc, she goes off on one. She also takes forever to do what I ask - all in all, she can be SOOOO frustrating - but at the same time, adorable and I lurve her to bits!

However, as I said all this continual conflict of interest is wearing me down as I am constantly saying no and shouting to the point where she will say 'don't shout at me' before bursting into tears or she will panic if she knows or thinks she's done something wrong as she will say "sorry, sorry, sorry" over and over and looks genuinely scared I'm going to tear her off a strip .

Feel really bad this morning as we were late getting to nursery and she suddenly decided just as we were going out the door that she needed the potty. I was not best pleased as she has used the potty as an excuse lately to keep getting out of bed or stall bedtime...she sits there for ages insisting she needs to go and nothing happens, so assumed she was playing this game again. This happened last night at 3 in the morning (the sides have just come off her cot, and I think she thinks this is a great excuse for disturbing the household in the middle of the night now that she can get out and tell us she needs a wee)...so this morning I bawled her out for needing the potty (frazzled on the back of a bad night, maybe) and felt awful as she then proceeded to do a big wee...told me to say sorry for shouting at her...and told me how much she loves me ..so have been feeling guilty and crap mum all morning.

Just a bit of a rant really, but make me feel better by telling me I'm not unusual to shout - I hate shouting and am fed up of spending a large part of my day bawling and getting wound up. Am I alone in this?
Thanks for reading, sorry so long, just needed to vent. x.

OP posts:
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skydancer1 · 23/10/2008 23:58

Katiek you saved my vegetarian bacon there (I think you are very kind!), as I was feeling bad about being a braggy-britches (it must be late -with this language - I've obviously regressed and/or gone quite mad!). Well I have to feel good about something when the rest can feel just too much at times, and you're right, Ds may be a beast but is also cute, cute, cute. I'm sorry it was also very hard by the sound of it when your DD was younger, but I've found it so reassuring reading you and others on how it gets easier as your DCs get older.

Olifin hi - and I think the list of issues you thought were related to your red mist descending were very interesting. It is so easy as a mum to not look after yourself properly and instead invest all your energies into looking after your LO/s. They need a huge investment of love and care, obviously, but it can backfire if we don't give ourselves enough as we will be trying to give from an empty tank. Simple things like more time for ourselves, enough sleep, good food...good points and I'm convinced so I'm going to bed!

slowlylosingit · 24/10/2008 10:54

First time on this thread and what a relief to have found it! I am sorry to say that I've spent all morning fantasing about my life before 3 year old dd. I feel I am now at the end of my tether with her.

Just back from holiday, a holiday me and DH spent ages saving up for, and what a bloody nightmare it was! DD screamed for 4 hours solidly on the plane, on the outward and return journey, despite all the sticker books, colouring books and pens I'd bought her. Kept screaming she wanted a drink of ribena, finally managed to buy one off the stewardess and dd took one sip and threw it everywhere! Typically, all the other kids her age on the plane were well behaved and didnt spend the whole journey sceaming the plane down. Shes flown before so its not like it was the first time... When we got to the hotel she moaned and whined for one week solidly, took a dislike to the hotel restaurant and refused to go in everyday, had to physically carry her in.

Now we're home shes back to her usual moaning behaviour, unable to spend any time playing on her own, opens her mouth and screams if she doesnt get her own way etc, refuses to go to bed. I look at my life now and thing what have I done?

Sorry this all sounds negative but feeling really down about it all. I had visions when I was pregnant of dd and I spending lots of lovely hours together and instead its a constant battle! I do love her but just wish she was a bit more laid back and easy to look after, instead of everything being such a struggle. Its put a strain on my relationship with dh too. Sigh.

Thanks for letting me rant!

Olifin · 24/10/2008 11:00

Thank you for the lovely warm welcome ladies.

TBH, I feel a bit of a fraud posting here as it seems many of you have children who are genuinely difficult to manage whereas my DD is actually quite straightforward and responds well to rewards, warnings, naughty step etc... it is usually my parenting which b*ggers things up somewhat! Oh well, at least it's usually easy to identify what's gone wrong and how to rectify it.

I had a gooood night's sleep last night and am feeling suitably refreshed this morning. So far, so good. Have read DD a story, at her request and am trying to be ultra nice and positive with her. Might even make some cakes with her in a minute

Olifin · 24/10/2008 11:04

slowlylosingit- just seen your post. Sorry the holiday was such a wash-out, it must have been very hard work for you

I wish I had some advice for you but I feel like I don't know what I'm doing most of the time.

Just wanted to say hello though.

slowlylosingit · 24/10/2008 11:22

Hello Olifin, hope the cake making goes well! I to am trying to be calm with my dd this morning. Its only just gone 11 and already it feels like hard work! DD has been up since the crack of dawn (I live for the day she gets up past 6) and has been on the go since, lots of tantrums and hysterics, so a normal day really! Will have to try and get out and about later or I will go slowly made looking at the same 4 walls.

I am hoping that next year she'll be able to go to a kids club on holiday and this will help keep her occupied and entertained. Though at the moment I wouldnt care if I never went on holiday again!

Olifin · 24/10/2008 22:02

Hello slowlylosingit, hope you managed to get out today- I find it makes such a huge difference to our moods and has the added benefits of making the day go quicker and tiring the LOs out

I made some chocolate cupcakes with DD- very unusual for me, I assure you, I'm really not very good at doing constructive 'activities' with her (probably part of the reason we often end up having altercations ) and I have to say, we've had a pretty good day. Not amazing or outstanding, but fine. No big tantrums, no shouting. DD has tried it on a couple of times but I've coped ok, having been far less tired than other occasions recently.

DD's most recent (and highly irritating) thing is to insist on being 'first' all the time e.g. if I say I'm off to the loo, she suddenly starts screeching in a high voice that she's going to go first and loses her temper if she doesn't get to 'win'. Unfortunately, I think DH and I inadvertently caused this by trying to get her dressed quickly ('bet you can't get dressed before I get your brother dressed!) A great strategy but it's backfired on us so I'm having to make a real effort to ignore all the 'I'm gonna be first' rantings.

Ah well, it could be worse (and has, many times!) but I hope your day has been ok (and anyone else reading).

Othersideofthechannel · 25/10/2008 06:27

Hi Olifin

3 is when they start to mind losing, I remember DS being the same. We also had used races to motivate him to get dressed quickly. But DD who is 3 also minds losing and not being first now and we never used races with her. Its probably just natural development rather than your fault IYSWIM.

DS is 5 now and ok and much better at losing unless tired. We stopped doing the races, let him go first whenever possible and also modelled good losing behaviour when playing games. Of course I don't give a s* about who wins at Uno but I always say things along the lines of 'oh you had lucky cards, I wish I'd had those cards but never mind, lets play again and see if I get lucky'.

HTH

skydancer1 · 25/10/2008 19:43

How are you all doing? I think I've got myself addicted to this thread as I've found it so helpful and appreciated sharing with people in such similar situations. I had one of those days when I kept losing my cool -ouch. I was tired (slept really badly) and got so stressed and claustrophobic with DS following me around all the time and demanding I do everything with him or he do everything I was doing. I wasn't so constructive about giving him activities to keep him happy either. Fortunately it was the weekend and my DP stepped into the breach quite a lot or I don't know how I would have coped.

ActingNormal · 25/10/2008 20:01

Been shouting at DH this pm. I was feeling a bit ill and because I know I've got both children all next week for half term I didn't want to be responsible for all discipline at the weekend when DH is here to help. He does try to help, it is just that I don't feel his 'discipline' works and then I end up having to step in and sort it out. But I know he has less practice as he doesn't have them all week and I can see he is just copying his own parents' way of doing things and he reasons that him and his brothers turned out ok. They did, but his mum admits all she did was shout all day and it had little effect.

He thinks all you have to do is shout. Shouting at DD just makes her get angry and shout back and not listen to what you are actually saying. Shouting at DS just makes him cry and makes him scared so he can't even concentrate on doing the right thing.
I think DH does scare them when he shouts because he is a big man with a loud booming voice. Then he complains that when he says to them "come for cuddles with Daddy", they don't want to.

So I explained to him why shouting doesn't work and said that threatening to hit them is also wrong (he says "I'll smack your bottom in a minute"), and said that the best thing is to warn them that if they do x then there will be y consequence (which doesn't involve shouting intimidatingly or smacking). I said that surely he has the intelligence to think of a more inventive consequence than that eg taking away the toy they are misusing or putting them in time out. I said that he doesn't need to shout at all really, just calmly say the consequence then 'follow through' if necessary.

The thing is, as I was saying it I realised I should be telling it to MYSELF! I know that what I told him works but so often I don't do it, I resort to just shouting myself! Now that I have criticised him I will have to make a special effort to do it properly for the rest of the weekend otherwise I am a hypocrite!

Then later on, they were messing about while eating their tea and DH went and sat with them staring at them while they ate and getting on their case about every little thing. I told him not to pressure them by staring at them and going on at them or they wouldn't be able to relax enough to eat (they are so sensitive they can't take it). DS is always saying to him "stop looking at me!". I told him to just talk gibberish to them and it would distract them from messing about and they would eat their tea without realising they were eating it. As the words were coming out of my mouth I thought to myself "oh my god, what a brilliant idea!" It's like I can say what should be done but can't think to actually do it myself! So I started to try out my own methods which I had told DH but not actually done myself and it was working!

Then I started thinking about the way I act when I am looking after other peoples' kids as well as my own. I make extra special effort to do things the way I know I should and to find non-shouting, non-aggressive ways to 'keep control' of them all because I don't feel comfortable shouting at other people's children. So when they are playing and I sense a 'fight' brewing, I go over and get down and play with them for a few moments and talk gibberish and it distracts them from the fight they were going to have, then when they are calmer I go away again and let them carry on playing on their own.

I realised that the reason our kids go wild at the weekends is because we are ignoring them too much, doing our own thing, normally staring at the TV or our laptops or newspapers because we are knackered after our week. They are bored and want attention. Some of their misbehaviour is to get attention and some of it is because they don't always know how to play unless you give them a few ideas. DH is knackered after a week at work and just wants to stare at the TV or whatever and I feel like I've had the kids all week so I want to make less effort at the weekend because DH is there as well and should be helping me.

I hadn't worked it out really until today why they went extra wild at the weekends, worse than in the week. Ignoring them too much makes them wild. Talking to them in short bursts and playing with them with whatever they are doing but adding a few ideas and then leaving them to it for a bit then coming back to them when they seem like they are going 'loopy' again seems to make them calmer and better at playing independently. Again, when I actually make myself DO it, it works.

Are other people like this? Somewhere in your mind you know what to do and how to do it, you just DON'T do it because you feel tired, ill, moody, depressed or whatever. So maybe our problems aren't so much knowing how to be parents but more to do with somehow looking after ourselves enough that we feel 'well' enough to do it properly.

It seems illogical that when we feel ill, we do crap parenting and then that makes our kids really misbehave which makes us feel even worse but this is what I do!

We tend to think that looking after our own needs is selfish but I'm thinking that if we don't do this we haven't got the mental and physical resources to parent properly so actually looking after yourself is NOT selfish!

MorocconOil · 26/10/2008 15:22

Hi All
AN- could have written your post. I really know what you mean about other people's DC. I am so nice to other DC. The DSs have started to pick up on it, and say I am not
fair. The thing is other DC do not press the buttons our own DC do. Also they are not there all the time, and it is not your responsibility to set and maintain their boundaries. For me this is one of the most demanding aspects of parenting. I feel my DC are always testing the boundaries. However when I have honest discussions with other prents this is the norm.
I think you are doing a bloody good job of parenting AN and others on this thread. The fact we are finding it hard is because we are trying very hard to get it right. This is hard for anyone, but for those of us who were not given appropriate parenting models it is doubly difficult. Also our parents were not hands on parents, so give little support with their grandchildren. We get no support so it is hardly surprising we get burnt out and lose it!
Today I decided to look after my needs, and left DH to it with the DC. I went for a long, fast walk in the countryside. I feel so much better for doing something for me. I feel more positive about the DC. i've got half-term next week too, but am now looking forward to a week out of the normal routines.

Olifin · 26/10/2008 19:07

OthersideoftheChannel- thanks for the ideas about curtailing the competitiveness and the incessant need to win! We have taken to ignoring our DD when she starts on about it, or we just try and play it down and that's been working well.

AN- I can identify with so much of what you posted yesterday. I, too, try to take a step back at weekends so that I (and the kids!) can have a break from me having to say 'no' all the time and being the one issuing the warnings etc... I try to let DH do it but, like you, I tend to step in if I can see things going wrong or feel that he's not handling something in the 'right' way. What works better is if I can hold my tongue at the time (maybe going somewhere out of earshot so I'm not tempted to interfere) and then bring it up later with DH when the kids are in bed. e.g. 'When DD does xyz, I try to respond by....and that's been working quite well, I wonder if you might get better results if you were to try that'. DH doesn't mind me making suggestions like this and prefers it to being 'undermined' in front of the children. It also enables us to discuss our strategies in private and come to compromises so that we can put up a united front for the children

I also totally agree with what you say about looking after ourselves and our own needs. Like you, I feel like I know what I should/shouldn't be doing in terms of discipline but it can all go out of the window if I'm tired or stressed and less able to think rationally.

I've had a pretty good day considering I've got the mother of all hangovers In a funny way, it's made things a bit easier with the kids because I've been feeling sooooo rough that I really can't be bothered to get into any altercations. I've actually been a lot softer on DD today and, luckily, she's been quite well-behaved. Apart from getting overtired and repeatedly telling me I was horrible and she wanted another mummy. For once, I hadn't done anything to deserve this ill-treatment so I completely ignored what she was saying and went off to another room with DS, leaving her with DH. After a while she came in and apologised, which was lovely. I just couldn't be arsed with doing battle today.

ActingNormal · 27/10/2008 10:09

Quick vent - I'm making an effort to do nice things with DD today while she is off school and DS is at nursery but however much I do for her or whatever I get for her she always asks for more and can never be happy with what she has got now. She is always worrying about what she is going to do/get after this and then what after that. Eg I got her a drink which she hadn't asked for and instead of saying thank you she whined "I'm hungry". I got her drawing things out and she whined "I need cellotape as well". I've just ranted "however much I do for you it is never enough is it, you always want more and it makes me not want to bother doing anything for you" Yesterday eve we took the kids for a pizza and we were enjoying eating it but she was whining "Will I get a balloon after, will you ask the man, will you ask him now". I want her to have a nice day today and I want to be nice to her but I just dread the next time she asks for more or asks what we are doing next when we haven't even finished the first thing. I'm dreading it because I don't want to be angry with her but how do I stop her ungrateful and spoilt attitude from irritating me?

Othersideofthechannel · 27/10/2008 12:27

Hi AN, sorry to hear your good intentions have left you frustrated.

Some days the demands are relentless, but these requests would be quite reasonable if the tone of voice was polite.

If you offer her a drink when she's thinking about something else, that makes her focus on her body and she realises she's hungry...

You get out the colouring things and she realises whatever she feels like creating requires tape....

Pizza restaurant - presumably she has been given a balloon at a restaurant before or the balloons are visible...

The problem is the way she is asking. If it sounds rude and whiny, you have to tell her that you'll do it when she's asked nicely.

Also, is there anything you can do to make her more self sufficient? Eg DS has his own roll of tape. When it runs out he gets a new one. Ours is kept in a separate place so that I know I will always find tape when I need it.

Perhaps if you think about all her requests in the day, you could find some ways to cut down on her pestering you!

nondomesticgoddess · 27/10/2008 13:57

I have just had a hideous week. Since about last Tuesday, dd (2.4) has been testing all the boundaries. Her favourite word is 'no' which she says all the time and very aggressively. She seems to say it in any situation - I could tell her I'm going to the loo and she just shouts 'No!'.

I do not know what to do with her. I am doing my best to stay calm with her and when she says no I just ignore her os cheerfully say, 'Ok'. But it is relentless and my patience is wearing very thin.

Everything is a struggle and I feel like we have to discuss everything. Getting on a pair of shoes to go out can take 10 minutes.

She is being nasty to her little brother which has never really happened before.

I am trying to pick my battles and as a result she's eaten next to nothing over the last few days.

I keep waking up hoping she'll be in a better mood.

Sorry to ramble, just wanted to vent!

fizzbuzz · 27/10/2008 14:33

ohhhhhhhhh can I join? dd 2.4 is driving me insane, I want to run away

Want this, don't want that, want that don't want that..........it never ends. She is ill atm, and when ill instead of going quiet and sleepy gets even worse. She has had 3 consecutive illnesses, and I do feel sorry for her, I do.....but I am worn out.

fizzbuzz · 27/10/2008 14:49

I try very hard not to shout, but I tend to get exasperated, and snap rather than shout (probably even worse)

I'm a teacher, and one of the top rules for classroom discipline is talk quietly in a clam environment. Don't shout, or raise voice as it up's the ante. It's so true......I can do it at work, but not at home

OldLadyDay · 27/10/2008 14:51

If no body has alrteay recommended it you could try this - it's really helped me and is the book Parentline use for parent coaching.

georgiemum · 27/10/2008 14:57

I rant all the time.

I have become the mother I used to tut about in shops (although I draw the line at hitting or swearing).

I have become my mother on a bad day!

Count to 10 - slowly. Then repeat as necessary. I try to remember what my sister (over 30 years experience working with small children) told me 'when a child empties out the bin all over the kitchen floor, they are not being naughty, just exploring and having fun'. Can't say it always works but it does help sometimes.

Try to smile and say nothing sometimes. The absolute joi de vivre (not sure about the spelling there) that small children have goes too quickly! In no time at all they will be stroppy teenagers and you'll miss the small child that adored you, hung from your legs when you were trying to rush to the loo and shouted loud, inappropriate things in public!

slowlylosingit · 27/10/2008 14:57

Fizzbuzz, I'll second the wanting to run away feeling. Sometimes when I approach dd's nursery to pick her up I can feel the dread coming over me, and have the urge to just keep on walking home. I imagine sitting down, having a nice cup of tea and reading the paper. Most of all I dream about how lovely and peaceful it would be. Instead I have to contend with dd screaming the nursery down, refusing to put her coat and shoes on, refusing to get in the pushchair, kicking me while I try to strap her in the pushchair following by screaming all the way home, with strangers looking at me like I'm killing her. I have to admit that sometimes I give her chocolate to keep her quiet which is SO not the right thing to do but I do on occasions just give up!

I too can be really good with other peoples children but when it comes to dd no matter how many deep breaths I take I end up raising my voice as she pushes me to the edge. I've watched all the parening programmes, read all the book, read on the excellent advice on MN about how to cope with tantrums etc but when it comes down to it I do sometimes just lose it. I pride myself on the fact I've never smacked dd but then when I think about it, shouting at her and saying things like "why dont you give me a break, just for 5 mins" and "can you just stop whining all the time" is hardly fantastic parenting...

God its so bloody hard!

MorocconOil · 27/10/2008 15:16

I could just get in the car now and drive as far away as I could. The DC are driving me utterly insane today. As I type DS1 is chasing DD around and threatening to let go of her balloon outside. She is schreeching and shrieking and he is laughing manically. I just want to scream. 'Shut the F* up.'

I took them out for a few hours so we weren't in all day. We go away for a few days first thing in the morning and I need to pack, but they keep distracting me from the task. I'm stressed about getting ready, and DH won't be home til after bed-time so I know I have to get everything ready and feed, entertain and get 3 excited DC to bed. It feels just too much. I just want to sit down with a cup of tea and be left on my own. I really hope I don't lose it but I keep feeling the red mist descend.

fizzbuzz · 27/10/2008 15:16

And, I'm so worn out with her, I've let her nap this afternoon, which means she'll be up until 9

After changing her nappy, and cleaning her, she decides without my knowledge to continue. Grabs a wipe, wipes her btm, then shovs her hands straight in her mouth. I remove wipe, turn away and she does the same again twice. I throw bag of wipes out of room in anger and shout NO! She cries...

And as for breakfast that was truly like something out of a farce.

Want toast...I go and make it
Don't want toast, want porridge ( I eat toast
Don't want porridge ( I go upstairs and leave dp to deal with it)
Find him juggling cornflakes, cereal bar, and yoghurt, all of which had been demanded and rejected, BUT he didn't know about the first part of breakfast........

I feel like today is happening to someone else........

slowlylosingit · 27/10/2008 15:31

I have just spent the past half hour on the phone talking to tax credits about a mistake they've made (they claim I owe them thousands, yikes) with dd refusing to keep quiet. She understands that when I'm on the phone she has to play quietly but what does she do, keeps screaming, keeps trying to get my attention, pulling on my clothes, climbing all over me, despite me frantically asking her in a calm voice to be very quiet as mummys talking. I to wanted to scream "shut the fu*k up". If it was anyone else I would. I tried walking out into another room, even putting cbeebies on, but she just followed me and became hysterical. I find it amazing that she cant spend 30 mins on her own, the house is full of toys, books, stickers but nothing keeps her occupied for more than a couple of minutes. She has the attention span of a flea... I know that when I was her age my mum was able to leave me to play while she got on with looking after my brothers, did some housework etc I just wish sometimes I had a more laid back child rather than a high maintenance one..

fizzbuzz · 27/10/2008 15:36

They all kick off when you are on the phone, esp to tossers at CTC (huge axe to grind there!)

balanomorey · 27/10/2008 16:27

Hi All
Gosh - so much has been said and discussed since I last looked in. Lots more new names which I hope will be taking the same comfort in knowing you aren't alone with your demanding dc's as I have.

Just thought I'd update you on where I am with my dd. For the last week there has been a definate improvement in her demeanor and behaviour - we have had the odd wobble, but on the whole much improved .

I have been trying so hard to refrain from shouting and losing my temper - I thought so long and hard about how I was acting and all the posts and advice on this thread have helped immensely in my efforts to change. I came to the conclusion that I am the adult, dd is just a little child and as exasperating as her behaviour is, I cannot for her sake, and for mine let her grind me down. Not saying I've been a saint, but things have greatly improved...she is all round an easier child at the moment. I think it is partly to do with coming out of a bad patch in terms of her not sleeping well and being under the weather with a perisitant cough....she is now sleeping much better and the cough seems to be abating. I can definately see that tiredness and illness makes for a grumpy, difficult child, no doubt.

I have just been ignoring tantrums, using the naughty mat, using reasonable and achieveable threats (eg no chocolate from her chocolate 'treasure chest'), using incentives (eg you've been so good, you can have a comic). Also, I have been trying not to give into her demanding ways - telling her to do things for herself, no you have to wait til I've had my cup of tea etc...she dosn't like it, but it's teaching her she's not at my beck and call. Have also been trying not to say no too much - letting her have some things her own way and picking my battles more carefully so as she can see that she has a little bit of control over what she's doing and I'm not dictating all the time. Obove all, I;m trying to do all these things in a measured, controlled way with no shouting and stropping - can't pretend it's not been completely shouty free, but it's much improved and I feel better for it.

I have done a lot of evaluating as I said - my dd is a sensitive little girl and I don't want to be making her upset with my shouty ways and am trying so hard to correct it....don't mean to and hope I don't sound smug...I still have a lot to learn, but just wanted you to know I feel I've moved on a bit since my original post. x.

OP posts:
slowlylosingit · 27/10/2008 17:01

Balanomorey- really pleased things going so well with your dd. I like the idea of a treasure chest. I can see that appealing to my dd.

Fizzbuzz- glad its not just me that has a tough time from child tax credits. Ending up losing my temper with them. Keep receiving letters from them saying I owe them huge amounts of money. Another one arrived today, this time for £544 to be paid in 10 days. I wouldnt mind but apparently we earn to much and havent qualified for any money since 2006. God knows why they seem to think we owe them. . I have a married friend who has told them her and her dh have split up but are still going to live together, ever since CTC keep paying random amounds of money into her account, shes had so much off them shes been on her third holiday this year. Bit envious to be honest.