Calling all Mum's of demanding kids - are your fuses as short as mine? :( sorry, bit long)

[balanomorey]

Am wondering if I'm normal or in need of anger management!!
My coming up to 3 yo dd is so demanding, I seem to spend 3 parts of my day bawling her out or saying no - it's so demorilising - I'm sure for her too, although I know I have to set boundaraies, don't I?

Her speech and awareness of what's going on around her is, imo sometimes gobsmacking for her age. She knows exactly what she wants, can ask (demand) for it very articulately and comes out with expressions that very often floor me! She seems to know too much at a young age. But as she is so young, she is obviously so very immature in many other ways and always wants to run before she can walk ("I do it" is her favourite expression) and when i say no, because imo what she is asking for she can't do or it is dangerous to have etc, she goes off on one. She also takes forever to do what I ask - all in all, she can be SOOOO frustrating - but at the same time, adorable and I lurve her to bits!

However, as I said all this continual conflict of interest is wearing me down as I am constantly saying no and shouting to the point where she will say 'don't shout at me' before bursting into tears or she will panic if she knows or thinks she's done something wrong as she will say "sorry, sorry, sorry" over and over and looks genuinely scared I'm going to tear her off a strip .

Feel really bad this morning as we were late getting to nursery and she suddenly decided just as we were going out the door that she needed the potty. I was not best pleased as she has used the potty as an excuse lately to keep getting out of bed or stall bedtime...she sits there for ages insisting she needs to go and nothing happens, so assumed she was playing this game again. This happened last night at 3 in the morning (the sides have just come off her cot, and I think she thinks this is a great excuse for disturbing the household in the middle of the night now that she can get out and tell us she needs a wee)...so this morning I bawled her out for needing the potty (frazzled on the back of a bad night, maybe) and felt awful as she then proceeded to do a big wee...told me to say sorry for shouting at her...and told me how much she loves me ..so have been feeling guilty and crap mum all morning.

Just a bit of a rant really, but make me feel better by telling me I'm not unusual to shout - I hate shouting and am fed up of spending a large part of my day bawling and getting wound up. Am I alone in this?
Thanks for reading, sorry so long, just needed to vent. x.

Right, I remind myself that today is a long day for my DD as she has done school and I am about to take her to ballet, and a long day for DS as he will have been at nursery all day when we collect him. So I must try to remember not to be too intolerant of their wild behaviour when we get home because it will be because they are tired so I should EXPECT it. I'll post again later, probably having failed to control myself and in a right mood .

How did you get on AN? Were the DC wild or calm, and did you manage not to lose it?

Thanks for asking . I gave DD a drink and a little flapjack in the car after ballet and I think that helped a bit on its own! We picked up DS and she didn't aggravate him on the way home. When we got home DH was home early so that distracted them for a few minutes. When DD started becoming wilder I gave her drawing to do and set up DS's 'train ramp thing' quickly for him to play with (which he lost interest in, in seconds). DD was quite calm for a while with her pens and paper. DS started getting whiny and aggravating DD! So I talked him through putting his own PJs on (which he should be learning by now aged 3) and that kept him occupied for a bit. Then DH did DD's school reading book and took them to bed. So it went quite well tonight! I had to make some effort though and focus on how to make it better - but maybe I should be less of a lazyarse and make more effort all the time anyway. I just really don't feel like it sometimes, but I can see that it is worth it rather than feeling wound up for longer than the time it takes to make the effort.

hello mimi
yes AN - am on tenterhooks, please come and tell us how it all went as soon as you have had a G&T or three and a little recuperative sit down! on which note i must pour myself a glass of wine to congratulate myself for having negotiated an after-school football practice for DS while doing homework from the sidelines with DD (a potentially HIGHLY explosive and, worse, public situation which can go either way, but which today worked, for reasons unknown!)x

AN - our posts crossed - that sounds way more positive. well done. am v glad

Sounds good AN- Flapjacks great for low-blood sugar levels. DS1 is far more pleasant when I give him something like flapjack to eat straight after school. He has been difficult this evening. He's really tired after late nights at the week-end, and he's hating the weekly spelling test at school. The spellings are much harder than Y3. He takes his frustration out on the rest of us, which is trying. I've been dealing with this by keeping in mind he's tired, and hugging him more, and acknowledging out loud that it must be hard for him. I did send him to his room for 5 minutes when he kept thumping away on the piano, so the others couldn't hear the television. In the past I'd have issued a threat. It's hard work, but I managed not to lose it.

Hello Katiek. Sounds like you're doing great with DD.

hey mimi. well done to you too - that all sounds really positive too.
as far as my DD is concerned, i can tell you it's all pretty unpredictable and some days are good, some less so, and half the time i'm damned if i can work out why.
she - astonishingly - learned to ride her bike at last though, last weekend. massive breakthrough. blood has been shed, tears have flown, tantrums thrown, family dynamics strained to their outer limit over this one!! it's still not exactly straightforward though - woe betide her little brother (who at 5 has been cycling sans stabilisers for 18 mths now, the cycling equivalent of a smug married to her neurotic pedestrian bridget jones) if he brakes too rapidly in front of her. this happened a few days ago and she threw a massive wobbler (to be fair, he had - unwittingly - caused her to crash into him and fall over), v amusingly he looked panic-stricken and took an executive decision to run straight into a cornfield in order to escape her certain wrath!! it was only two days later we were allowed to laugh about it all in front of her...

Ah yes, the riding of the un-stabilised bike! DD1 refused until she was 8, because she tried it ONCE at the age of 4 and fell off and that was that. Unfortunately, DD2 has the same 'can't do instantly so can't be arsed' attitude to this and many other activities - weren't there a few fabulous threads about the horror of arts and crafts earlier?

Also, mention of homework earlier - the Year 6 Maths homework DD1 is getting at the moment has brought out all the worst and most childish aspects of my personality - hurling of book across room, roars of 'This is stupid, why do they even give you homework?'. And yes, this is me (can you see where DD2 might get some of her behaviour from)

LOL grumpy, great image of the homework scenes. have done all of that internally a million times over i can tell you. have watched DD bouce off the walls on numerous occasions over incomprehensible (to both of us) tasks/instructions/new-fangled maths etc!! also - v relieved to hear you had same complete obstinacy over unstablised bike issue btw. i had totally given up on DD riding a bike before the age of about 12, to be honest, and what's more that was fine by me after the trauma of all we've had to go through until last weekend!!
as for > arts and crafts...the very words cause me to feel NAUSEOUS with anxiety and suppressed fear.
on the plus side, my DD can actually begin to find her own excesses amusing - always in retrospect - OBV - and has a nice line in self-mimicry going, whereby she acts out a past meltdown and agrees that perhaps, just perhaps that reaction was a tad on the OTT side

I really am a bitch, what the hell is wrong with me? I just can't do it today. I don't want to do anything at all, not even speak. It is really hard to force myself. The kids come near me and I just get mad and tell them to leave me alone because I don't want to talk and I don't want to keep doing things for them. They haven't been badly behaved. I haven't had anything stressful today. I didn't sleep very well but don't especially feel tired. I'm feeling negatively about a few things but it doesn't seem enough to make me like this. I seem to get like this at random so I just don't know what causes it. I feel crap about myself for it and I know I sound pathetic. Any ideas how to kick myself up the ass?

Hi AN. I think you already have enough ideas how to kick yourself! It might be worth trying something like meditation or other techniques for being still within yourself and you may find you have a more spacious experience or at any rate know what is going on for you more deeply. This might be uncomfortable at first if your general experience is what you would call negative or painful. I know it's really hard to find the time to do stuff like this but in my experience worth it. Even ten/fifteen minutes a day.

OR - use the same amount of time in the day (or more if you have it of course!) to do one thing that you really like doing, something that brings you pleasure/joy or a feeling of connection or peace.

I'm having a 'feel like a bitch day' today. I slept badly last night, DH's been away alot and DD's constant chatter has been really irritating me today. I feel bad because she's only trying to communicate with me.
My coping strategy has been to turn the television on.
I know part of the irritation is feeling that my needs are bottom of the pile, and I feel resentful of the demands the DC make of me.
I'm hoping DH is back in time for me to play netball tonight. Running after a ball, and trying to get it off other people seems to release some of the irritated feelings that fester in me. I'll probably get pulled up for fouling a lot tonight.

sympathy ++ to you both AN and mimi. exercise has always been a real help to me too mimi. go for it tonight!! i was a virtual single parent for about a year, due to DH's constant bloody night shifts, when DD was three or so and it was SO hard. i salute anyone with one or more spirited kids and no partner at home.

i second skylark on the meditation front, AN - i was DRIVEN to it by my tussles with DD about two or three years ago and went on one of those one-evening-a-week-for-6-weeks courses you see advertised now and again - really worth doing. i already loved yoga so i guess i had an interest anyway in that direction, which helped. i often only manage 10 minutes before falling into bed but it somehow helps to keep you centred and calm, and it also improved my sleep no end. worth a thought anyway. it gets easier with practice (tho i am no expert, that's for sure)!

Just found this thread and not read all of it yet, but...I have often wondered if I was alone in my anger issues with my daughter (aged 3). I have lost it so many times. I have shouted and said unreasonable things and treated my daughter unfairly. I have always been ashamed of this. I am very often aware of what I'm doing wrong but find it almost impossible to get back on track once I've lost my temper.

I am off to bed now but will be making time to read the entire thread before hopefully joining in and finding/offering support with others going through the same.

I really feel like a terrible mother and always feel that others are coping fine with their toddlers. I'm sorry to see so many others are having problems, but relieved, too, that I'm not alone.

ps
meditation notwithstanding, lost it completely with DD this morning over getting out of the house for school (she helpfully flung herself melodramatically over the doormat screeching 'i don't WANNA walk to school!!!'). sigh. so much for my new age smugness eh girls?

Hi Olifin

Katiek-I usually completely lose it after a period of self-congratulation, when I am feeling as though I've finally cracked this parenting malarkey. My period of smugness usually ends abruptly with me losing it, and behaving like a toddler. Don't you find yourself losing it unexpectedly sometimes? I do.

I just want to run a couple of things by others...

My Ds has recently learned screeching/shouting 'AH, AH!' noises and high pitched screaming at his nursery for when he doesn't get what he wants immediately and aside from ignoring the excesses or not reacting obviously I also say (trying to stay calm!) things like 'I don't understand that noise. What do you want/what's the matter? or 'You have to wait - it's coming in a minute'. Often this works but sometimes it doesn't and basically I'm a bit horrified that this has quickly become a habitual behaviour for him. So I am now trying to persuade with a bit of shaming. This is worrying for me as I am aware that it is important not to humiliate a child so I feel like I'm walking a fine line. So what do people think of me telling DS that these are 'silly baby' noises and only 'stupid' babies who cant talk in the nursery make this kind of noise?

The other thing I feel a bit awkward about doing is using threats (I've mentioned this before) like "If you don't stop banging the table I will take the fork away" or "If you keep doing that (e;g trying to open other people's car doors when we're out) I'll put you in your pushchair. I find threats work like magic but I feel horrible using them.

Hi Skydancer- I am assuming your DS is 3-ish.
With the high pitched noises, I wouldn't talk about silly and stupid, because he may start using those words with other children. Children are highly sensitive about being stupid and it isn't a word that builds self-esteem. I would talk about him being a big boy who can talk really well, who has lots of really good words he can use. Focus on the positive rather than the negative.

With the threats this is an area I struggle with too. I issue them too readily to try and stop the DC from misbehaving. However the examples you use are not really threats. When he's banging on the table making a horrible noise, it is fair to take the fork away to stop the noise. You gave him a warning, he didn't take any notice so it's quite right to follow it through.

HTH

sky, mimi - hello girls, and hi to olifin too! yes indeedy mimi, i'd had a few good days with DD then completely lost it this morning using (sky, this is a little reminisncent of your post today) some choice phrases such as 'you're SEVEN yet you're acting like a TWO year old' and 'you have RUINED my and DS's morning, WHY do you DO this' and 'i don't understand what HAPPENS when you do this'. mmmh great psychology there!! so sky i too resort to some of those techniques i know really aren't helpful (esp comparing her to a toddler, which she hates)when things are stressful - ie when we are trying to get out the door at 8.20 am (worst time of the day for us all ARGH). sigh.
no answers there, then!! that's bcs have to rush off (not bcs i don't have them of course ha ha ha)
back later xxx

It made me laugh about feeling smug about doing a good parenting thing that worked and then it all goes tts up! . This happens to me all the time and it is such a relief to hear other people say it. This job really is bloody hard isn't it! and we haven't given up! We are getting ideas from each other and trying to improve all the time. I think we are great even if we fck it up every other time [smug despite the slapdash shambles that is my homelife]

I'm in a good mood today, even though I feel slightly ill. There is no reason for this change in mood just like there was no good reason for my hopeless mood the other day! My brain is just f*cked. I've bought loads of fruit and veg, Omega 3 oil and evening primrose oil today so feel 'righteous' even if it doesn't make any difference and all goes rotten before I'm motivated enough to get everyone to eat it.

I think threats like "if you continue to misuse your fork I will take it away" are perfect! They should be renamed "consequences" with a warning beforehand. The sort of threats that are wrong are eg "I'm going to hit you in a minute".

I think it is ok to say "Don't screech like that, that is what babies do because they haven't learnt to talk yet, you can talk very well and you should say eg "Mummy please can I have a drink" and if I say "Yes but you will have to wait for me to put this washing in the machine first", you should say "ok Mummy I will wait til then".

Then you have made your point but haven't said anyone is stupid, babies or your child. Lately I find that telling my children what TO say rather than saying "Stop shouting/whining/crying/being rude" is working better. They could stop shouting if you are firm enough but if they don't know how to express themselves properly and what words they could use they will shout again next time. I'm trying to think in terms of teaching them how to behave rather than disciplining them for misbehaving.

See, I can say all this when I'm in a good mood and the kids aren't even in the house at the moment! Lately when I start feeling like sht again and they are here and noisy and overwhelming and I forget to do all the things I know I should do it will all turn to sht!

Good point about teaching DC how to express themselves, instead of shouting at them . I will try that next time I feel irritable and DD is whining commands at me. It is sometimes hard in the heat of the moment not to respond crossly, but I will take a few deep breaths, remain calm and explain simply how she needs to express her needs without whining.

Thanks for all your great advice and sharing exp Mimi, Katiek and AN. I've got some better ideas now for using positive encouragement and role-modelling (I mentioned this myself to someone else the other day so why didn't I think of it? ) for the screeching/impatient thing and think you folk are right about not using the 'stupid' word. I'm glad the 'threats' sound appropriate too.

My Ds is only 25 months but is articulate for his age (mummy bragging alert ). He can speak in full sentences e.g "Mummy have you seen the keys?" "I don't like the Nursery, it's dirty in there. I want to go to the park". BUT, we are in Spain now (moved here ten months ago) and his Spanish is extremely basic -literally a few words, so he is not making himself understood in his non-bilingual nursery and is kind of back to square one. Also I think some of the children his age aren't yet speaking so well so they do the screeching/screaming thing because they're frustrated. Yet another factor here is that they often have 15 or more children to one staff member , so there is an awful lot of frustration/competing for attention going on, is my guess. Actually the more I go on about this the more sympathetic I feel towards my LO by the minute! He only goes for three hours a day to the nursery until he is a bit older/used to it or I have to return to full-time work.

One thing I wanted to share that I am finding successful at the moment dealing with little Mr will-of-iron is humour and fun. I can sometimes turn him round full-scale from imminent war-fare to gales of giggles just by being extremely silly and playful myself or getting some music on and dancing with him. I don't always feel in the mood for it at first but I have to say that it works so well in diverting conflict it often cheers me up as well - and calms us all down ultimately.

Hello all!!!

It was the Halloween Disco tonight, we have spoken of little else all week (especially at 3am when The Supreme Being is awake and chatty/curious/busy/giggly/cross/fwitend) and have been in a lather of excitement.

So what did my boisterous/loud/challenging/pain in the bum DD do?

Clung pathetically to my leg, peeped shyly from beneath her fringe (she has the biggest, most shiny chocolate brown eyes that melt everyone), simpered at everyone, lisped whenever anyone spoke to her (she can even lisp words WITHOUT an 's' when she's in the mood) and generally behaved like a little mouse.

Laugh?????? I was agape with amazement - what happened?

Hello again everyone.

Must confess I still haven't been able to get through the whole thread (soooo tired!) but I think I've got the general gist.

I will try to summarise my situation as briefly as possible:

I have a 3 year-old dd who is gorgeous. I wouldn't say she is 'spirited' as some other posters here experience with their children. She is, in the main, a good girl. She is lovely to her brother and with other children and almost always behaves beautifully for other adults. She is fiercely independent and her language is good. I tend to expect far too much from her and assume her emotional maturity should match her maturity in other ways.

DD has been feisty since about 18 months but has become a lot more difficult since DS arrived 6 months ago. She has outrageous tantrums and this blind rage that takes her over. She adores her brother but is competitive. I sometimes feel sad about how our relationship has changed since DS arrived. I feel guilty a lot of the time.

I have found it all so hard recently. I have a temper that was never there before I had children. I can identify what someone said earlier about the 'red mist' descending. I shout too much and have said terrible things like 'you're doing my head in', 'let me have some space'. Sometimes I hold a grudge against DD for far too long.

I really think our problems are more mine that DDs and the main issues are:
-Not having enough time to myself
-Not getting enough sleep
-Eating badly and not getting enough exercise
-Not spending enough time playing with DD
-Giving DD too much negative attention and not enough positive.
-Too high expectations of DD

In many ways, DD and I are like two peas in a pod and this is a big part of the problem, I think.

Have been so impressed to see the support you have all given each other here and feel relieved to have found others who clearly understand what's going on in my life and in my head.

Like many mums, I enjoy giving the impression that I'm coping, even when I'm not. DH and my mum are always saying how well I'm doing, because I'm good at making it look like I'm supermum which couldn't be further from the truth

Sorry this is all very jumbled, just getting my thoughts out in a 'stream of consciousness' kind of a way.

Hope you have all had a good enough day today.

hello olifin
so nice to read more about you, and your kids sound lovely - as do you. i am sure a large part of the problem is indeed the full-on-ness of the situation (as all of us face in the pre-school years) and the lack of time for yourself. it completely did my head in at your stage. as did the general stress, isolation, insomnia, lack of DH presence (due to his work) etc etc. now things are better, i am FIERCELY protective of my time alone and even though mine are at school i completely refuse to work full-time (or even much part-time as my DH would quickly point out! )bcs i feel as if i am still in recovery from the Early Years!!! so i really sympathise.
i had a couple of red mist moments just today so it still happens. and mine are almost always bcs i am stressed and tired and in highly-strung mode rather than bcs the behaviour is any different from lots of other episodes. today i irrationally took back a promise i'd made to let my DD go to a sleepover party(of which i disapprove bcs am a fogey at heart and think she is too young, basically) in the heat of the moment then had to retract the retraction - argh, messy messy messy and Definitely Not In The Manual (whatever the manual du jour happens to be today, that is!!)
sigh.
anyway welcome, and it's very interesting to read you.
sky - v interesting re the spanish nursery situation you face with DS - and you are allowed a little maternal boast there bcs he does sound like he's a very cute and clever clogs!! also re humour - i use that sort of strategy all the time with my DD and it really, really works. trouble is that it is quite draining on one's sometimes limited energy supplies i used to find!! luckily i am better slept these days! but yes it is such a good tool.
must go to bed, talking of sleep
night girls xxx