Calling all Mum's of demanding kids - are your fuses as short as mine? :( sorry, bit long)

[balanomorey]

Am wondering if I'm normal or in need of anger management!!
My coming up to 3 yo dd is so demanding, I seem to spend 3 parts of my day bawling her out or saying no - it's so demorilising - I'm sure for her too, although I know I have to set boundaraies, don't I?

Her speech and awareness of what's going on around her is, imo sometimes gobsmacking for her age. She knows exactly what she wants, can ask (demand) for it very articulately and comes out with expressions that very often floor me! She seems to know too much at a young age. But as she is so young, she is obviously so very immature in many other ways and always wants to run before she can walk ("I do it" is her favourite expression) and when i say no, because imo what she is asking for she can't do or it is dangerous to have etc, she goes off on one. She also takes forever to do what I ask - all in all, she can be SOOOO frustrating - but at the same time, adorable and I lurve her to bits!

However, as I said all this continual conflict of interest is wearing me down as I am constantly saying no and shouting to the point where she will say 'don't shout at me' before bursting into tears or she will panic if she knows or thinks she's done something wrong as she will say "sorry, sorry, sorry" over and over and looks genuinely scared I'm going to tear her off a strip .

Feel really bad this morning as we were late getting to nursery and she suddenly decided just as we were going out the door that she needed the potty. I was not best pleased as she has used the potty as an excuse lately to keep getting out of bed or stall bedtime...she sits there for ages insisting she needs to go and nothing happens, so assumed she was playing this game again. This happened last night at 3 in the morning (the sides have just come off her cot, and I think she thinks this is a great excuse for disturbing the household in the middle of the night now that she can get out and tell us she needs a wee)...so this morning I bawled her out for needing the potty (frazzled on the back of a bad night, maybe) and felt awful as she then proceeded to do a big wee...told me to say sorry for shouting at her...and told me how much she loves me ..so have been feeling guilty and crap mum all morning.

Just a bit of a rant really, but make me feel better by telling me I'm not unusual to shout - I hate shouting and am fed up of spending a large part of my day bawling and getting wound up. Am I alone in this?
Thanks for reading, sorry so long, just needed to vent. x.

I am so irritated by everything right now. As soon as DD saw DS when I picked him up from preschool she aggravated him and has been getting on his nerves and my nerves ever since. She didn't do anything that you would call naughty to him but he is so oversensitive that the slightest thing makes him do this shrieking whining noise. His noise irritates me and I know that really he is being too sensitive but I feel really irritated with her. I ask her not to do anything to set him off but she continues. She wants his attention and wants him to play with her but he wants a bit of space.

I want to concentrate on driving but she is talking nonsense and making silly noises constantly and DS is doing his shrieking whining. I ask her to be quiet for a few moments but she just doesn't seem to have the self control. She doesn't have ADHD because she is fine at school and can concentrate on art and craft and writing that she is doing at home.

When she isn't making a noise she is fiddling and fiddling with things that aren't toys which winds me up because I don't want things messed up or broken. She can't sit still or quiet for even a moment.

We get home and she runs at high speed up and down and leaps about and bosses DS around and gets so wild if I don't stop her that DS ends up getting hurt.

The noise and movement makes me really on edge and anxious and I just want her to shut up and keep still. It is probably me who has the problem, some kind of anxious thing. But once I've got this wound up I don't even want DD to speak at all or be anywhere near me. I feel really angry and feel that I shouldn't be reacting this strongly. I find it hard to control myself enough to not be horrible and shouty and ranting. Surely I shouldn't want to get away from my own DD?

People think DS is more annoying because he cries and whines so much and often you can't even breath near him without setting him off. Yet I don't feel the same anger and urge to escape from him as I do with DD. I feel like I am deranged and a horrible person. Sometimes I am not like this and I can be calm but other times I just feel like I can't do it.

Does anyone else get like this? How do I stop being like this?

Sounds like a typical 5 yr old after school to me! DS is so in need of release after containing himself at school all afternoon I am relieved to get him across the car park safely.

Can you pinpoint what it is that makes you able to cope somedays at not others?

I find expecting it to be hard work makes it easier!

Do you think a story CD would work in the car to keep her from making silly noises so that you are in a better frame of mind when you get home? Or all singing loud songs together?

Our smoothest evenings are when I have the energy to put on a CD and get them dancing as soon as we are through the door, or something similar.

I took her from school, home, got ready for ballet, got taxi to get car from garage, drove from there to ballet, drove from ballet to nursery to get DS. So she was probably a bit crazy from being so non stop. I do find she seems wilder after ballet anyway. Is it just tiredness then? And could DS be tired from a day at nursery (9.30am til 5.30pm ish - quite a long day for a 3 year old). Am I just expecting too much from them when they are too tired?

It sounds to me like tiredness. My DC are the same, and I find it unbearable when they won't leave eachother alone, and provoke the others to screech. The effort involved in going to ballet sounds quite stressful for you all. Could DD go at the week-end instead?

Sorry you had a bad day Actingnormal! Maybe you just need a bit of love and attention yourself. Not worth beating yourself up about not being able to tolerate DCs so well when you're not feeling good - won't that just add insult to injury? I hope you have a better day tomorrow.

Getting to ballet isn't normally so complex, just that the car had to have work done on it today and we had to go and collect it first so we were more rushed.

The ballet teacher is DH's friend so that is why DD goes to her class and not one in our town or one at the weekend.

I didn't get to do anything I enjoyed today because I was busy with tedious chores so I probably was less tolerant.

I do feel better when I take into account the children's tiredness and my grumpiness from having nothing enjoyable in my day. It feels better when there is a reason for it. Thank you

I am sure your DS is also tired after a full day of nursery.

Glad you're feeling better.

I feel a bit better today, thanks. I realise I am a bit unfair to DD because I expect her to modify her behaviour, even when she isn't really doing anything wrong, so as to not 'set off' DS. I expect her to be the grown up one and modify her behaviour but in lots of cases it is DS who I should be expecting more from. Eg. if he is shrieking with annoyance just because DD is looking at him or singing to him, he is being too sensitive. If he carries on like that he will find it hard to cope in real life.

Nothing much that I say to him seems to stop him reacting like this and I'm thinking maybe I need to just ignore it. By telling DD off each time I am encouraging him to react to the little things that she does. So unless she has done something most children would react to I think I should ignore his reaction and not say anything at all. I think it is the same when he cries tragically if I say no about anything. I then try to think of anything to do or say to stop him crying because it hurts my heart, and my ears, and irritates me, but I suppose he is learning that his reaction gets my attention. His extreme reactions make me scared to tell him off. I need to ignore him at these times as well!

It feels strange to think of doing absolutely nothing as being a parenting technique! I'm so scared to ignore a crying child, because of my own childhood experiences, but I think I am doing more harm than good with the way I am doing things. I find it so hard to not be all one way or all the other!

AN- your post is a reminder to me that I often blame DS2 for making DD scream. The noise she makes is quite persistent, pierces my head and I just want it to STOP. Often she does it when he's trying to be nice, as your DD does by singing or joining in her game. When she shrieks I usually just go,' OH DS2 why can't you just leave her alone?'. Sometimes he has behaved badly towards her, but more often hasn't really done anything.

I suppose a more effective way to deal with it is to observe what's happening, try and get them to play co-operatively by joining in with them sometimes, (not all the time.) It is hard though as often I am trying to get on with making tea. I suppose I could involve them all in that, then they wouldn't be left to their own devices.

Not got much time really, but just wanted to post a link that I noticed before I popped on here. It's called "Are you secretly a toxic mum?" and was on MSN, I think.
style.uk.msn.com/family/parenting/article.aspx?cp-documentid=9983164

Not sure how much I can add at this point, but just wanted to say this is by far the best thread I've ever read on MN - only came across it today - thanks to everyone who's been so honest and unjudgy.

I can identify hugely with much of what's been posted. My DDs are 5 and 1, and I worry a lot about how angry I get sometimes - as the OP said, the rage seems to come from nowhere, and I feel I don't always have a chance to stop it, which is scary. My DH thinks I need professional help with anger management (if only I had the time...)

Thanks to the OP for starting this conversation, and to everyone for your contributions - much food for thought.

Hi All
Again been reading with interest the trials and tribulations of all of you with more than one dc - God knows how hard that must be to have one winding the other up must be unbearable! I don't know how I'd cope with 2!! Acting, glad today was better than yesterday - I too always seem to have a bad day when I have an agenda to get through. All the messing about and bad behaviour seems far worse when you have to be somewhere!

Wondering what you think of dds behaviour which, at the moment, I am finding challenging. Have any of you come accross this? DD has taken to bursting into tears if you tell her to 'SHHHH' - ie politely, "shut up"! She seems to be so sensitive to it and it really upsets her. Sometimes, it has to be said though dosn't it, especially if on the phone etc. A lady at playgroup said it to her today as I was trying to talk to her and dd kept interrupting with "Mummy....." - she hid in my skirts and refused to be talked round. Felt a bit sorry for her as i was trying to explain why we say SHHH sometimes and she said, "But Mummy, I just want to talk to you" and this morning at playgroup she was trying to get my attention cos she needed a wee . She seems to be taking it really personally - I guess it's her sensitive side coming out. She's the same with the word "No" which i can understand a bit more. DH and I have made a point of SHHH-shing(sp?) each other a lot on purpose to illustrate that we get told to shut up too sometimes and that it's OK to be told that and not to get upset...but it hasn't worked. What shall I do? I don't want her to be upset as it upsets me too. But sometimes these things have to be said! She just seems to be so over sensitive at the moment - you only need to look at her the wrong way and she cries...it's making everything twice as hard...but it has definately made me think twice about shouting as i don't want to upset her even more. This thread has been invaluable to me. Thanks so much all. PS sorry it's a bit rambly - am trying to hurry before DH comes up to bed! x.

Balanomorey, it's difficult to know how to handle interruptions, isn't it? When DS1 was younger, I made the mistake of explaining to him the reasons why we shouldn't interrupt people and to make sure that anything that he DID feel the need to interrupt for was really important i.e. he needed a wee, or to tell me that DS2 had fallen over in the next room or something. Stupidly, I thought that a 3 year old's idea of what is "important" would be the same as mine. Hence, subsequent interruptions went like this: [DS1 tugs frantically at my sleeve, bouncing up and down] "Mum, mum!!! MUUUUUUM!" Me: "Remember what we said? Is it really important - can't it wait till I've finished talking?" Him: "No! It is really really important!" Me: "Okay, what's the matter?" Him: "There's a new series of Thomas starting next Monday on Nick Jr!"

If anyone knows of a good way to deal with interruptions without them having to pee on the floor, I'd love to know!

Balano, your DD sounds as sensitive as my DS. He cries tragically if I say no, even if I say it as gently as I can. He WON'T be quiet when I 'ssssh' him and often ends up making even more noise. I have to threaten to take something off him to make him quieten down. I asked him to whisper instead of talk at a wedding and he shouted "I WHISPER MUMMY" then he saw a big clock on the wall and shouted "LOOK AT THAT BIG COCK!" (he couldn't say clock properly at that stage).

Does anyone have any advice on this situation:

DS (3) and his friend (2.5) in the back of my car. I don't like driving and feel anxious driving. The kids are making noises at each other, not really being naughty, but then they become louder and louder and provoke each other. My DS is oversensitive and the noise makes him cry. His friend enjoys DS's reaction and roars at him again. DS cries more. His friend isn't really doing anything wrong just by roaring but all the noise is making it hard for me to concentrate on driving so I'm getting stressed. His friend carries on. Now I think that he has crossed the line and is being naughty because he can see that he is upsetting DS and is continuing on purpose. His mother does NOT think that her DS is being naughty, just that my DS is being oversensitive. She thinks that her DS behaves like that because he is copying my DS. This is partly true but it is not true that my DS is ALWAYS the one who starts it. We had an argument about it. We did both tell off our children though so that seems fair.

I'm a bit confused about who is right and wrong. Other parents use my children's oversensitivity as an excuse to say that their children have not done anything wrong, mine have just overreacted to something that isn't naughty - even on occasions where the other child has physically hurt one of mine! I am starting to get very defensive. I admit my children, especially DS, are too sensitive, but some of the times the other child has genuinely done something wrong and their parent dismisses it and says it is just my child being oversensitive. I've started watching DS like a hawk to see exactly who did what so that I can defend him if I need to. Parents don't take kindly to me standing up for myself/my children at all!

I've had a long conversation with DS's friend's mother about today and we've both talked out our feelings and decided the best thing is for her to sit in the back with them when we are driving to calm them down because it is hard to ignore noise when you are driving and are a nervous driver. Also that we will watch them together more closely when not in the car and try to judge when it IS oversensitivity and when it is naughty behaviour and who did it first and whether we need to tell one or both of them off.

Will this work? Can I do anything else to help DS cope with other children better? I want him to learn how to cope with them without crying all the time before he goes to school next September.

AN - i think you did a sterling job of trying to sort out the rights and wrongs of a very tricky situation. the best thing you could have done was sit down with the other mother and thrash it out, and the agreement you came to seems sensible to me. all very very difficult for you - esp in the car i agree that makes it SO much worse!
my DD has always been hypersensitive to noise (i remember one particularly nightmareish fireworks party...what were we thinking of??!.has got better with time and i was lucky not to have encountered many problems in this respect with other kids thankfully - like you (and my dd...genetic alert yet again!!) my nerves are SHREDDED by noise, esp high-pitched kiddie screams and the like.
also sensitive to telling-off just as you and balano have found. v hard to tell her off, look at her the wrong way and she used to break down etc. so difficult in social situations so often. same same same. again - better with time. after school still v sensitive time though and still happens fairly regularly.
must go persuade my DS, DD and pal into bath now - back soon! chin up girls! xx

I think it is too much to expect a 2.5 yr old or a 3 yr old to be quiet because they are upsetting the other child.

Not worth working out who is right or wrong. If a similar situation occurs, stick on a CD, sing or similar distraction.

Hello all

My God, this has been the best post, I laughed so much earlier that my pelvic floor disintegrated. My dd's are 10 and 4 and the 10 year old was the most perfect child, slept right through at 6 weeks, biddable, adorable toddler (with blonde ringlets and pink cheeks to boot!). She's a little sod at the moment now though - those pre-teen hormones are really kicking in.

Little Miss 4 year old, on the other hand, is a 'challenge' - didn't sleep through the night until she was 3, laughs when I try to chastise her, especially if I use a reasonable, calm voice and when she laughs at me pretending to be my (saintly, patient, infinitely kind) mother I get the giggles, her other trick is to feign deafness (AAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGH). She winds me up to the point of Mount Vesuvius (sp?) eruptions and just cackles and scampers off or screams and chucks things in temper (unfortunately, she got this from me). She will not be helped with anything and is instantly frustrated when things do not go wrong. And she does all the eye-rolling, tutting stuff.

Oh, and I've just discovered I am up the duff again, I am wondering what this next one will be like.

hello grumpy and welcome! i SALUTE you (and all who have more than two kids, who are clearly made of sterner stuff than my feeble, lily-livered self) for going for number three! congratulations!
hello to all you girls and hope things are going okay for you all i have had some ups and downs but no more than are to be expected given the nature of this motherhood lark xx

OtherSide, not sure if I agree with you or not - if a child is roaring over and over again at another one on purpose because they like their reaction (crying), surely this is something they could/should control themselves from doing?

But it has made me think that I think I do often expect too much from my DCs and sometimes I should expect them to be 'crazy', eg my kids were getting 'mental' by tea time today and I probably shouldn't have been too cross with them because they were really tired after going on a sleep over last night and not sleeping til really late. I think I should remind myself to think "Am I expecting too much?" when I'm about to go mad at them for something.

I think sometimes blanking out their noise in my mind and somehow learning not to hear it would be a good parenting technique.

Grumpy, I like it when I see more proof that it isn't all about how crap/or not our parenting is but that some children really are just born to be more challenging than others.

repeat after me AN, they REALLY are, they REALLY are, they REALLY are - born to be more challenging in some cases, that is! there is no doubt in my mind!!!

I think you should expect a 4 or 5 yr old to show empathy but some 3 yr olds might not be able to manage it. DD is 3.10 and it is something I am just starting to see.

Hi everyone
Just wanted to say how much I LOVE this thread and sympathise with you all! DS1 (2.4) is very sensitive and is not yet dealing well with the arrival of DS2 (5mo) which has removed him from his little prince pedestal....
Anyway for all of you who have (over)sensitive children (and may be sensitive yourselves), can I recommend this book which has been brilliant for me, both with DS and as I recognise myself in it and in him.

oooh zam, thanks a lot - i have never come across that one and feel the need for a new book coming on. i've been reading the 'how to talk...' one for a bit too long now and need a change! if only from its 80s cartoons featuring knitting mummies in dungarees on rocking chairs...have also succumbed to the odd novel and to watching 'into the wild' and 'the duchess' (can recommend both highly) - life can't be 100% frenzied anxiety now, can it?! (er, yes it can, on bad days at least)

I am feeling a little guilty, I understand the serious nature of the OP, it's just that being able to read about people dealing with similar situations is such a relief and does bring out the humour, I think.

The Supreme Being has been on top form today, issuing edicts from on high and having endless tea parties at which attendance is compulsory. Luckily, she has been mostly fun today, just 2 things hurled.

My mum says that it is my punishment for being the most horrific child who ever lived............

Hi grumpy, yes I suspect I was every bit as 'demanding' as my LO, and LOL at supreme being. Since when was humour banned? One of the all best qualities and stress-busters.