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Behaviour/development

Talk to others about child development and behaviour stages here. You can find more information on our development calendar.

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Original poster

Please help to avoid CantSleepWontSleep's 21 month old dd being exiled from toddler group!

128 replies

CantSleepWontSleep · 13/11/2007 17:21

We were 'spoken to' after toddler group today, and told that several people had noticed that dd is quite 'robust' (a diplomatic way of putting it!), and could I keep more of an eye on her at group, as they didn't want her to put people off coming .

She's a boisterous 21 month old, but was an early walker and has good speech for her age, so I wonder if the other mothers think that she is older than she is, and thus expect more discipline.

Today she bopped another child (who herself went through a similar phase a few months ago, when she was already over 2) on the head with a musical shaker thing. It was unprovoked (and didn't look malicious), but I was 2 inches away when it happened, so can't see how 'keeping an eye on her' is going to help.

I think that possibly the other mother expected me to take a similar approach to the one that she had (time out and made to say sorry), and because I didn't (don't feel it is appropriate at this age) she thinks that I am letting dd get away with it (which to an extent I suppose I am, but I did tell her firmly that it was wrong).

I don't think (or certainly hope) that the group leader would have spoken to me if other parents hadn't chipped in with other comments though.

So, the point of my post, is to ask how I should deal with this? What age appropriate action can I take that will pacify the other parents, but not unnecessarily traumatise dd or make toddler group an unenjoyable experience for both of us?

Sorry for length of post - has been annoying/upsetting me all day and wanted to get relevant info down.

OP posts:

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

SoupDragon · 13/11/2007 22:31

"Does she avoid eye contact when she's done something she shouldnt have?" Snort! I know you didn't ask me this question but, for example, when caught drawing on walls (which happens all too frequently) BabyDragon just stares at me with a "Yes...? expression on her face, pen poised to continue.

Flame · 13/11/2007 22:34

The staring is better than DS with "I did it!!" and then as he turns to carry on!

VeniVidiVickiQV · 13/11/2007 22:37

Oh it is. Just ask hunker

Soupy - DS is the same. Well, he was.

In my limited experience, there seems to be a point in development where they appear to begin to recognise that they have behaved inappropriately which is demonstrated by eye contact - or the lack of.

Original poster

CantSleepWontSleep · 13/11/2007 22:44

DD points at where she drew on my bedroom wall, and says 'Peeepa'

I think she still looks at me. Sometimes she says 'naughty' before I do, but that's normally for little things at home rather than fights when out. I guess she's on her way to understanding, but not quite there.

OP posts:

VeniVidiVickiQV · 13/11/2007 22:52

This inbetween stage is so very difficult.

I think you are just going to have to bear with it, follow the advice given about removing her from the situation for a time.

You could also try praising the good stuff, especially when she is playing really nicely, by going up to her and showing her praise or even giving her a treat.

CoteDAzur · 14/11/2007 09:29

The key here is whether or not you appear to be doing enough to keep your DD from hurting other children. You might think you are, but others probably don't (or they would not try to evict you from playgroup), and if she manages to hit another child on the head with a toy while you are "two inches away from her", then you can't have been "watching her like a hawk".

Original poster

CantSleepWontSleep · 14/11/2007 09:39

Well that's helpful CoteDazur - thanks . I'm very jealous of you obviously having such lightening reactions that you can stop a totally out of the blue unexpected and unprovoked split second bop before it happens. Perhaps you could run a masterclass for us mere mortals?

OP posts:

hunkermunker · 14/11/2007 10:28

CSWS, perhaps Cote thinks you should've slid DD into a large body stocking to pin her arms to her sides? Or maybe she's never seen a toddler before?

Flame · 14/11/2007 10:48

Ahh, brings back the memories of the HV when DD broke her arm.... "You have to watch them At All Times at this age"

"See!!! You watched her do that with me!!!"

She was not amused

onebatmother · 14/11/2007 10:51

Wow. PetiteCote must be on a fairly short rein?

hunkermunker · 14/11/2007 10:58

"BING!"

Flame · 14/11/2007 11:12

ARGH!

hunkermunker · 14/11/2007 11:24

Flame · 14/11/2007 11:34

I asked at nursery, and they say he isn't a big bully there... we'll see how he gets on this morning. I am starting to suspect that he just doesn't like that child (the main time it happens is with one particular child, or his sister which is normal )

Yummers · 14/11/2007 11:59

lots of sympathy for your op. my dd is 20 months old and also boisterous and big for her age. other than following them around like prison guards, removing anything that looks like it might be about to be used as a weapon, i don't know what advice i can give you. really sorry.

i agree she's much too young for being made to say sorry. it'll just be a new word like any other at this age. as for time out, it's not something i've tried or even know much about so i'm a bit useless on thsi one i'm afraid.

CarGirl · 14/11/2007 12:06

my dd went through a horrid 6 weeks of suddenly pushing over unprovoked. I told her no and sat her on a chair for a bit. Also where appropriate I comfort the "hurt" child first making a big fuss of them and dd gets the bare minimum. I also stopped going for a couple of weeks which I think may have helped break the habit IYSWIM. For a long time mine was the one who was placid and got the brunt end of it and suddenly she's started sticking up for herself but tends to push/shove away when she's feeling threatened. I don't the sorry bit because they're not sorry so it's a waste of time.

CoteDAzur · 14/11/2007 12:48

I am sure the sarcasm and the can't-do-more attitude is going to help rally your supporters come judgement day at toddler group.

What I tried to point out was that if other mothers thought you were doing enough to curb your DD's aggressivity towards other children, you would not be told to keep an eye on her. You would have sympathy.

To satisfy the thread's curiousity - I know quite a few toddlers, as the mother of a 2.3 DD. We have two rather aggressive kids in our playgroup. They hit, push, etc when they can. Every time, their mothers come down to their level, tell them off in front of the other child, take them away for a minute, then come back to say "sorry" or give a kiss to the kid they hit.

My DD has been hit by these kids several times. Yet I have only admiration for their mothers, who are doing a brilliant job. Nobody is trying to kick them out of toddler group, either.

onebatmother · 14/11/2007 12:50

I think some of the sarcasm was directed at the apparent .. aggressivity of your post, CDA

onebatmother · 14/11/2007 13:16

lol csws re naughty step.

Mine also thinks this is something new to add to her list of big-girls things that she can do.
I'm unconvinced about NS anyway. Now I just do it to see how long she can actually sit there, completely silent, looking at the floor in very serious manner. 3 mins longest so far! then 'I DID IT!'

SoupDragon · 14/11/2007 13:32

Cote, I think part of your post they took exception to was "if she manages to hit another child on the head with a toy while you are "two inches away from her", then you can't have been "watching her like a hawk"." which is, quite frankly, nonsense.

hunkermunker · 14/11/2007 13:37

Cote, it's not sodding working though, this method you have so much admiration for, is it?!

Original poster

CantSleepWontSleep · 14/11/2007 13:57

CDA - my OP asked for age appropriate suggestions of how to deal with the situation. Your post offered nothing but [factually incorrect] criticism. I wouldn't dream of being sarcastic with anyone at the playgroup who offered help.

How lucky you are not to have had your dd go through a phase like this. And how lucky you are to belong to a group where the 21 month olds can say sorry - most of the 21 month olds that I know only have a handful of words, so sorry is a long way off for them.

You have, however, proved my point that 'discipline' is expected in order to pacify other parents, rather than because it actually makes a jot of difference to the child!

DD was also 'bullied' repeatedly by a 2.5 yr old earlier this year. His mother appeared to take no action (whilst at the groups concerned) to remedy it, but he has now outgrown the behaviour anyway, possibly no later than he would have done had he been punished (but obviously there is no way to prove that or otherwise).

Perhaps also worth me pointing out that dd goes to 5 groups each week, and this is the only one that has ever seen fit to classify her as a problem.

OP posts:

hunkermunker · 14/11/2007 13:59

CSWS, don't worry. Just whack Cote over the head with a brick and come and have a cuddle on my lap

Piggy · 14/11/2007 14:04

CSWS - I think you have hit the nail on the head when you say "You have, however, proved my point that 'discipline' is expected in order to pacify other parents, rather than because it actually makes a jot of difference to the child!" Everyone knows that toddlers can be a handful and boisterous but it seems to me that what people care more about is that the parent shows the requisite amount of embarrassment/discomfort/anger at the child's behaviour. I never really bothered with baby/toddler groups and the more I read of them the happier I am that I didn't!

Original poster

CantSleepWontSleep · 14/11/2007 14:06

Will you squash me between your norks if I do hunker?
[hopeful]

OP posts:

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