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Behaviour/development

Talk to others about child development and behaviour stages here. You can find more information on our development calendar.

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Original poster

Please help to avoid CantSleepWontSleep's 21 month old dd being exiled from toddler group!

128 replies

CantSleepWontSleep · 13/11/2007 17:21

We were 'spoken to' after toddler group today, and told that several people had noticed that dd is quite 'robust' (a diplomatic way of putting it!), and could I keep more of an eye on her at group, as they didn't want her to put people off coming .

She's a boisterous 21 month old, but was an early walker and has good speech for her age, so I wonder if the other mothers think that she is older than she is, and thus expect more discipline.

Today she bopped another child (who herself went through a similar phase a few months ago, when she was already over 2) on the head with a musical shaker thing. It was unprovoked (and didn't look malicious), but I was 2 inches away when it happened, so can't see how 'keeping an eye on her' is going to help.

I think that possibly the other mother expected me to take a similar approach to the one that she had (time out and made to say sorry), and because I didn't (don't feel it is appropriate at this age) she thinks that I am letting dd get away with it (which to an extent I suppose I am, but I did tell her firmly that it was wrong).

I don't think (or certainly hope) that the group leader would have spoken to me if other parents hadn't chipped in with other comments though.

So, the point of my post, is to ask how I should deal with this? What age appropriate action can I take that will pacify the other parents, but not unnecessarily traumatise dd or make toddler group an unenjoyable experience for both of us?

Sorry for length of post - has been annoying/upsetting me all day and wanted to get relevant info down.

OP posts:

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

Set a reminder

Flame · 13/11/2007 17:30

I have no advice.

DS spent this afternoon thumping a 1 year old for no apparent reason.

I tried firm telling off, time out, and even smacking (something I have always been against). Oh, and he thumped her again when told to say sorry!

Nothing worked.

Not much help, but you aren't alone.

anorak · 13/11/2007 17:40

I find it a bit odd that 'several people' had commented to the leader when you were there in person to chat with others. If several people really had issues with DD surely you would have seen incidents to cause them, surely other mothers would have been near you and DD and you would have been aware of any problems?

It sounds like the person who spoke to you was exaggerating the number of people who had mentioned DD. Perhaps she's afraid of one or two small incidents turning into a bigger problem if left unchecked. You've explained to her that you didn't leave it unchecked, what more can you do except to carry on as you are, being watchful and talking to your DD? I don't think you should worry about it any more if you are satisfied that you're monitoring your DD ok.

hifi · 13/11/2007 17:56

from previous exp i find it more annoying when the mother doesnt chastise the child, i think at 21 months shes old enough.

RubyRioja · 13/11/2007 18:01

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Lulumama · 13/11/2007 18:04

i had a similar situation with dd, although without the being spoken to bit!

i removed her from the situation, took her outside the room, said firmly, 'hitting/ pushing is not nice behaviour it is not acceptable', tehn took her back in to say sorry, and i apologise to the mum

i think 21 months is old enough to start learning about saying sorry and to be removed from the situation , it will not traumatise her..

DD has calmed down an awful lot, it is just a horrible phase

HonoriaGlossop · 13/11/2007 18:12

Agree totally with ruby and lulu. You do need to be seen to be doing SOMETHING about it; not only to placate the other parents but also so that your dd learns about social interaction. She will learn quicker if there is a real consequence to her actions; just telling her it's wrong is not strong enough IMO; you may as well be reciting your shopping list to her!

Tell her it's wrong, then remove her, perhaps to just outside the door. I don't think it needs to be for long at all, just long enough to tell her No, we don't hit. Then back in. I feel that if you do this say, three times in one session, the child needs to know that you WILL back this up and leave, if they keep doing stuff.

We had a mother at one group I went to whose son had the most awful behaviour (way, way worse than your dd who's just doing utterly normal stuff!) and people would get quite cross because the mum just went off and had coffee and ignored him and let him get on with it. Of course the poor woman needed a break more than most but the fact remains that if a child is prone to do this stuff they do need supervising constantly; ok maybe you're not in time to stop it but at least you witness it and can deal with it immediately.

Flame · 13/11/2007 18:12

Soooooooo.... what do you do when they thump said child again instead of saying sorry, and laugh during time out (ignored/held in place or any other method)?

belgo · 13/11/2007 18:13

Flame - you do timeout again, and make them say sorry again.

HonoriaGlossop · 13/11/2007 18:13

Take them out again. And again, and if it's continual, back it up by leaving, is what I would do.

HonoriaGlossop · 13/11/2007 18:14

I wouldn't encourage them to say sorry at this age. I think give them the 'time out' of the room, then just move straight on with the fun. I think harping on for an apology just prolongs the situation for all.

belgo · 13/11/2007 18:15

Honoria -that's a very good point. My dd1 couldn't even say the word sorry until fairly recently, and she's nearly four years old.

Flame · 13/11/2007 18:16

The forced apology seems to make him home in to hit again No matter how many time outs, and it often isn't possible to leave.

DD was soooo much easier (I never thought I'd be saying that )

belgo · 13/11/2007 18:17

Flame - if other parents see that you are trying your best to deal with the situation, they will be sympathetic, and also very relieved that thet are not in that situation.

Most of us are in that situation though, at some point.

Flame · 13/11/2007 18:18

Is it an age thing btw? He was lovely before and has turned really evil now!!

HonoriaGlossop · 13/11/2007 18:18

Yes, I agree, the forced apology thing just reminds them of what has just happened - better to move on. At this age I think role modelling is more important - they will hear you apologise for them, and they do learn from that. Eventually!

belgo · 13/11/2007 18:18

oh yes it's an age thing

HonoriaGlossop · 13/11/2007 18:19

i agree belgo. If other parents can see that you are dealing with it, it really does help to soothe any resentments.

Flame · 13/11/2007 18:20

Thank you!

(Sorry for the hijack CSWS )

LoveAngelGabriel · 13/11/2007 18:20

No real advice I'm afraid. My 2.9 yr old spends half the time at toddler group rucking with other kids, snatching toys, screeching 'mine!' and generally ends the session with a good tantrum and meltdown (dragged him screaming from the church hall today during storytime ).
I watch him like a hawk and discipline him / distract him where appropriate, but I can't make him behave like a different child (he also seems much older then his age - his tall, incredibly agile, excellent speech etc). Luckily the other mums seem quite relaxed at my group, but I live in fear of dirty looks and tuts and sighs whenever I take him anywhere. Always seems like everyone else has angelic, quiet, docile little beans and I have this crazy little energy ball. Hey ho.

IdrisTheDragon · 13/11/2007 18:22

I would remove DD from the situation and say sorry to the child myself - I have never been one for fixed apologies myself as I'm not sure what anyone really gets from it.

But I do agree you need to be "seen" to be doing something and also agree that 21 months is probably old enough to be able to start to know at least that some things aren't acceptable.

NotQuiteCockney · 13/11/2007 18:23

Ok, we're always dealing with this at the nursery, so I can tell you a bit of what our playleader (who is bloody brilliant with this age) does.

Obviously each child is different.

But she reminds them that gentle touches are nice, by touching them gently, a stroke on the cheek, then she gets them to say 'sorry'. They can say sorry with words, or with a stroke. (She is holding their hand while they stroke the child, no opportunities to get another hit in here!)

If they don't want to say sorry, they are often kept (safely) close to the victim, to let them feel the effects of their action (the screaming and sobbing).

We watch for the things that are likely to set off the child, so we can head things off at the pass.

And, yes, as others have said, Flame, if I was at a group with this problem, I would give a warning that we would leave it happened again, and I would follow through, particularly if he likes being at the group. A v swift undigified departure is sometimes a good solution. (And it shows other parents you are taking the problem seriously.)

NotQuiteCockney · 13/11/2007 18:24

Oh, and I don't think I'd do a forced apology. Encouraged, maybe, but not forced per se.

Original poster

CantSleepWontSleep · 13/11/2007 18:29

It's not really a hijack when we have the same problem (except your ds looking young for his age so probably getting away with more ) though is it flame!

I remember a thread on here a while back where the apology bit was deemed pointless as they don't understand remorse, and dd has never used the word (it's not one she would hear a lot so have cause to pick up), so I doubt it's in her vocab yet.

Anorak - I suspect that the one mother mentioned it in front of the other mothers (as her dd was crying), and they all chipped in with the 'ooh yes' type of comment, rather than there being other specific incidents that were highlighted.

hifi - 'chastise' is telling her off yes? I do that, and it makes absolutely jack all difference!

Well I guess I'm going to have to watch her like a hawk for a few weeks, and remove for big incidents (though she won't keep still if removed and will almost certainly just hit me in the face and break another pair of glasses), and hope that no-one minds if she tries to keep hold of a toy that another child wants to take from her (a typical event).

OP posts:

Flame · 13/11/2007 18:32

DS doesn't normally do it at groups, more at friend's houses etc when I am there with DD to play too, or for me to do something - leaving as punishment for him would be too hard on DD or me depending on why we are there

He is oddly well behaved at other places - he must just be relaxed in homes

Chloe55 · 13/11/2007 18:37

Tbh CSWS, I would have used time out. As you know, ds is the same age and I firmly tell him whatever he is doing is wrong, if he continues I warn him that he will sit outside (I put him in the hallway at home) if he does it again - after a few times of putting him outside over the past few weeks he generally stops behaving badly at the warning now. If I wass out in public I'd give the same warning and follow it through by taking him outside, ignore him for 2mins, then go back in and tell him to say sorry - he doesn't actually say it but gives a hug instead which is good enough for me.

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