Come and be a Better Parent with us in the Virtual Village

[Letsgoforawalk]

This was originally started by Another Monkey, the virtual village refers to the phrase that 'It takes a village to raise a child'.

You are welcome to vent, to ask for advice or to give us the benefit of your experience. The only thing we all seem to have in common is that we are all either ‘in there’ or have ‘been there’.

Perfection is not the goal, we are more about, as monkey brilliantly put it “choosing one thing to be less crap at at a time”.

Books recommended so far:
How To Talk so Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk
When Your Kids Push Your Buttons
The Happiness Project
Calmer Easier Happier Parenting
The Explosive Child
The Highly Sensitive Child
How to be a Better Parent: No Matter How Badly Your Children Behave or How Busy You Are

Potentially useful websites (useful in quite different ways…..)
www.theorangerhino.com
www.ahaparenting.com
www.renegademothering.com

A wide range of potential sources of advice are listed because all our children are different and no book / technique / tactic will suit every family.

A link to the original thread is shown below, and I think Monkeys OP is worth a read as she sums it all up very well…….

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/behaviour_development/a2002053-Does-anyone-else-want-to-come-and-be-a-better-parent-with-me
wecome

Sorry drspouse I wasn't meaning you are a neglectful parent. My DT2 decided to wear pants about 3 weeks ago and night weeing is the bane of my life now. I didn't turn the monitors on tonight (too bone idle to go up and get them and DT1 had been up and unsettled til 9pm so only not on for an hour) but I suddenly realised I could hear screaming and he was distraught he'd nearly wet himself. In a nappy. I tried to reassure him his bed wouldn't get wet and he has a nappy on. Anyway, he woke up, had a wee, went back to bed. I promised the monitor would be on He's had wees at all times of the night The other boy would never do that. It's just different children. I've never 'sleep trained' him in any way either but he's a good sleeper. He has a very violent dislike of sharing anything, ever though. I've never seen the like at friends houses or toddler groups or anywhere. We had a particularly embarrassing playdate on Monday. Organised for my DDs benefit but the mum is a cm so brought 3 preschoolers. Plus my 3 preschoolers. With DT2 determined no other child can have a turn on the swing/play with his toys and screaming like a veritable banshee. First time they've ever been round. Cringe-tastic. I don't know what to do about him and sharing. He always does the refusal and scream, always. At our house, toddler groups, friends houses. We try to do the whole supported waiting til it's his turn. If asked anything like wouldn't it be sad if they came round could play he shouts things like "no!" and told me if they came again he'd chase them out of his garden. So. That went well. We have since had another chat about play dates and he has come up with putting his favourite cars away and the friends can play with the wow toys. We'll see. At least it was his idea. I won't be holding my breath. He also says he will never ever be friends with anyone who isn't DT1. Right then.
Any other suggestions??

Oh- and my DT1 is like an alarm clock himself. Regardless of bedtime he springs up at 6:20am. Every day.

Who told my DT1 tonight was the night to get up for a wee as I was too convinced he wouldn't?! And DT2 to have 2?! Yawn. I can't wait til they don't have nappies on and can just do it themselves.

dreaming you've made me laugh
Thank you

Oh, I think letting them put a few "special" toys away and choosing what they would share in advance is what I've seen suggested. So yes. Good plan. My youngest was a bit like that. (At nursery school.....) but I'd forgotten til I read your post, so they do grow out of it.

he was distraught he'd nearly wet himself. In a nappy. I tried to reassure him his bed wouldn't get wet and he has a nappy on.

We have more or less been through this and out the other side in that DS now understands that he may feel like he wants a wee and be awake but it's OK, he can consciously wee in a nappy if he needs to go, and it will be fine. He had a lot of early evening and early morning waking with this issue, we reassured him he could wee in the nappy, and he became comfortable with doing that at night but on the loo in the day.

Not too long after that he became dry (mostly) at nap time except for yesterday's regrettable floor wee and poo incident. I have no idea if they are related. I know he probably won't be dry at night until the magic hormone kicks in, that's partly why we'd rather he weed in his sleep and got used to the idea of it being OK, because he's no way ready to wake up when he wants a wee. When he starts having a few dry nights we'll look at it again.

I wouldn't do reward charts owing to being lazy and disorganised. Maybe for something like remembering to do reading after school each day when they are older, where it's more of a reminder. I am a firm believer in extrinsic AND intrinsic reward, after all, if extrinsic reward didn't help, what would be the point in praising your children?

But as with all these things, any one book/method/philosophy is never going to be perfect for every child in its entirety.

Thing is, according to some of the books/articles I've read, generic praise (good girl/boy, well done, great job, etc.) is apparently not a terribly effective strategy either, though. Which is not to say I don't do it. I do, all the time. It just comes so naturally.

I'm trying to do the descriptive praise thing, though, where you just describe what they're doing, without superlatives. And then maybe praise their effort or ascribe a positive trait, e.g. 'you really concentrated on that' or 'that's very cooperative'.

That way, with any luck, you're paying attention to their good behaviour without turning them into a 'praise junkie'. That's the theory anyway. I can't really say whether it works or not because I haven't been consistent with it - it just feels a bit weird, tbh

Trouble is, the more I read, the more I feel like I'm doing everything wrong

generic praise (good girl/boy, well done, great job, etc.) is apparently not a terribly effective strategy either, though.

No, it isn't, and it does come naturally - but this book (Calmer, Happier, Easier...) doesn't recommend that, and though it's not all that natural and is a little hard work, both DH and I have found it makes sense to us as well as helping DS if we use what they call "descriptive praise" i.e. "good boy for trying really hard to put your socks on", "you were such a good boy this morning being quiet before it's time to get up" (he was, shame about the wee on the floor), "oh that's great, you calmed yourself down even though you didn't want porridge".

I am not sure that younger children get the positive wording, or even sometimes the positive tone, very well, though, without the simple praise part added in - the words can be a bit complicated and leave them puzzled as to whether "you put your plate on the table, you're being cooperative" is good or bad. DS certainly sometimes asks "Mummy appy?" when I've just praised him but he knows "good tidying up, that's very cooperative" is praise. I'm not really sure what the difference would be between a more complex positive word or phrase "concentrating" or "cooperative" and a simple positive word or phrase "that's great, you tried hard at X" or "good boy, that's so helpful doing X".

DD also gets descriptive praise so the technique is rubbing off "Gooboy DD you're clawing!" [crawling].

One of my boys is dry at night though drspouse and the other has been the last 2 nights too. My DD didn't wear a nappy at night by 3 so maybe it won't be too long for them then maybe I can just leave the potty handy and not get up

I do descriptive praise and hate good boy/ good girl- I never say that, or incredibly rarely. I'd say 'thanks for tidying' 'you do that so quickly, it's so helpful' 'that was a really kind thing to do, thanks' , that sort of thing mostly. I do find it hard- DT1 learnt to ride his pedal bike the day after his 3rd birthday and is now bike obsessed. As he's still quite dinky on it and can only just touch the floor with the tips of his toes he is a bit worried about stopping (as really he needs to come forward off the saddle) and he's improved hugely the last 2 days. I keep hearing 'that was great riding, really good control, I was impressed with that!' coming out of my mouth now. Definitely not quite 'right'. It is hard. I sometimes wonder why I bother as DH doesn't. He just doesn't 'get' it.

Oh, and we haven't got into our first choice school for DD ad so are now having to go to appeal . School are fairly positive about it but I'm very stressed about it. I worried so much about whether choosing a school which isn't walking distance was a good idea; now I really don't want our local (offered) school, there will be 38 in the class for KS2 among other reasons. Argh!!!

Yes, descriptive praise can feel a bit clumsy and odd. But it is effective. It is about letting the child really know that you have really noticed them.

Think about the praise you might like best if you had spent hours preparing a special meal. "That was a brilliant meal" would be lovely but "you made the pastry yourself, it was so crumbly and delicious"and "those fresh herbs really added something to that salad, I love the flavour of coriander" would show that they had thought about and noticed the effort you had put in to making it.

Evaluative generic praise can be dished out even if you have had you nose in your phone for the entire time that your child has been riding their bike/ juggling a ball/ colouring in. You can still say "well done you were brilliant" and not have noticed a thing.

Oh, and mummybare, I'm sure you are doing lots right!!

Well done to DT1 on riding his pedal bike so young. That is a testament to you too dreaming giving him the space to develop the skills.

I like to think of it as appreciation rather than praise as such? That also helps because you can change your automatic script, if you like. I used to say "Thank you" to DS instead of "Good boy" and now good boy sounds so alien to me I can't say it, it feels like I'm talking to a dog. That also gives you a natural way to embellish. "Thank you for...."

I also read an interesting article recently about watching children play sports and that suggested you say something like "I love to watch you play" rather than "Great pass!" "Brilliant goal!" "Wow, you won!" etc. When we make a value judgement (you are great/brilliant/clever/etc) it's different to just showing that you enjoy being with them, watching them, spending time with them.

But I don't think we should take all this to heart or try to follow it to the letter. You know? It's also positive for children to hear that you think they are good at something, or a generic "I'm pleased" without it being perfectly worded every time. The most important thing is to be real with them. It's fine to change the way you say something, but only if you actually feel it.

Definitely impressed by the bike BTW - DS has literally just mastered his and he's six and a half :) He also needs to work on stopping now.

I do say 'thank you' a lot when DD is helpful etc. so maybe I'll mostly stick with that.

I did try the 'never ask twice' method this morning and it seemed to work quite well (and I didn't do it quite as per the book - I forgot to get her to say back to me what she was supposed to do, but DH backed me up, which helped). Essentially, you make sure you have their attention, ask them to do what you want them to do then use a lot of descriptive praise when they make any move towards doing it. And you don't do anything else at the same time.

Just wanted to share an example of her contrariness at the moment that made me chuckle.

DD (pointing at my foot): What's that, Mummy?
Me: It's dry skin, Sweetie.
DD (whining): Oh, but I want it to be wet skin!

Perhaps I should be proud of her firm grasp of opposites

Well she definitely has those opposites down!

Hellooooo
Hope everyone is ok. Still busy with dog (she can leap in the air and catch treats! And is currently doing little twitchy yelps in her sleep with her nose in her paws) the children are learning about responsibility etc as they need to look after her after school til I get home. I'm trying to be tough and consistent re homework but also step back and let them make mistakes.

Hello, is anyone still around?

It must be over a month since I posted last as the thread fell off my 'threads I'm on'.

I've just not had the words really! Or perhaps, no new words is more precise.

missing my comfort thread, though!

Hello! I just took DS for a couple of days at Guide camp and the contrast between that and home with DD is astonishing. Whether it's the fresh air and room to run around, loads of attention from the Guides, expectations (nobody lets him grab/not say please/hit anyone) or the lack of DD and us telling him not to step on her!

Dr spouse, I wouldn't be surprised if you had just hit a lot of nails on the head right there.....

Monkey, I know the feeling. Good to see you again

Hello! I'm still here too but nothing in particular to say.

I am still as stellar a parent as always. I forgot to take DS to kindergarten this morning, because I'd turned my alarm off and we didn't wake up until 9.15. Oops! I made him do a bit of his maths book instead, he can count in threes now, up to 27 and then he gets lost

However, the ticket system is working really well and I just changed some of the requirements by going through them with DS. He has also learnt to ride a bike so wants to be outside almost all the time which is good.

I am really noticing ADHD type behaviours at the moment, though - okay I'm highlighting them, because I suspect that I have ADHD myself, but it is pretty constant at the moment. Switching (or losing) track in the middle of a sentence, generally being in this hyped up/high energy state where he's so tightly wound it's hard to reach through to him, constantly having to make nonsense noise especially when he's happy (which doesn't stop unless dire threats are made, and hits me right in the headache spot - aaaaargh), absolute inability to sit still and normally on a chair (we'll see what school make of this one) and there is an extremely short window in which I can engage him in anything before he gets hyped up and silly or just really really persistent at starting NOW and being right in it and not stopping to listen to any input or boundaries at all.

Or perhaps that's all normal 6 year old stuff?

Anyway, that's where we are at :)

Impressive maths Bertie!

Yay Great to see you all.

Bertie, he sounds exactly like my DS, I don't know either how typical that all is either! Sleeping til 9am is pretty much top of my fantasy list at the moment.

LetsGo hello How's the dog? Is all well with your DDs?

DrSpouse, that does sound like a recipe for bringing out the best in them

We're starting to understand a bit more about why things are so tricky for DS at school, but we need the NHS referral to come through. I can't believe it's taking so long just to see the paediatrician.

They are both well though, we've had a tiring but mostly lovely BH weekend. It's still a rollercoaster here.

What's happening with your DS and school Monkey?

Hello everyone, and thanks AnotherMonkey for starting the thread up again, I've been missing it too. Here's hoping that referral comes through for you soon. Bertie the maths is very impressive - as is your DS sleeping till 9.15! My DS is 3 but sounds very like that, I have wondered many times about ADHD too. How is he with sleep? DS is a pretty good sleeper which for now has pushed me into the "he's just a VERY active child" camp rather than the ADHD one, but it doesn't stop me wondering about it a lot. The main thing for DS is his seeming inability to keep his hands off things-he just cannot seem to stop himself picking stuff up or touching things he shouldn't. Out with friends today and the contrast between him and his friend (also 3) was stark, especially when we were in a queue. DS just on the move constantly, fiddling with anything and everything, picking stuff up, while friend just stood waiting so patiently!

All still a bit of a rollercoaster here too, doing better at not shouting at DS, but still finding myself pretty impatient a lot of the time, esp. as he's developed an impressive whine over the last week. Every suggestion of where we might go/what we'll do/eat/watch/read has been met with "Whhhhhy? I don't LIKE it!" aaaaaaaaagh Am repeating to myself that hopefully it's just a phase, but by God it's annoying. DD 11 months has been very unsettled again at night and in a real separation anxiety phase, so am trying hard to give her what she needs, but feeling a bit shit that I'm getting impatient with her too Planned a day off with DH and without kids tomorrow so hoping that helps to refuel me a bit!

DS sleeps great, always has. It was getting him to sleep which was the problem when he was younger. I mean, yeah, he didn't sleep through until about 2.5 but I think that's fairly normal as I co slept and breastfed until he stopped both of his own accord. Now he still sometimes complains about not being able to get to sleep but we can close the door and ignore the fact he's reading! He is a night owl like me. We always clash in the mornings. I even said to him today "Look: I'm not my best in the mornings, you're not your best in the mornings. Can we try to accept that we're just grumpy and try not to annoy each other?" - I do love being able to say those kinds of things to him now. You can't do that with a younger child.

I do think touching and investigating everything is totally usual three year old behaviour, though, and would suggest that a three year old who waits patiently in a queue is the unusual one, not one who can't bear to be still! But it is hard when you are faced with a child like that. DS goes to a school readiness group on a Thursday afternoon and there is a mum who waits with her toddler, every week he plays shopkeeper in the most calm, sweet, focused way. It's amazing!

Likewise, I was speaking to a friend I haven't seen for ages the other day, she has two children, aged five and two. Her first child was the most angelic, adorable, co-operative, willing to please child. You could give him an instruction at one or two years old and he'd look at you all seriously and then follow it to the letter. Friend was really gentle and attachment parenty, always seemed really tuned in, always patient, always taking time to explain things, and it just worked perfectly with him. My DS was sort of similar - up to three, he always seemed to see the sense in what I said and trust and usually did it. I didn't really have to hold his hand when we were out walking because he would go where I told him to, not run off, etc. I used to hold it by busier roads of course. So apparently I said to my friend (years ago!) that if she had another child she might be surprised if he/she doesn't act like her first one, because he wasn't a very typical toddler. She laughed because her second child is much more typical, she says she'll go into her normal explaining thing "We have to stay on the pavement, sweetheart, because the road is where the cars go and this is for people." (even I with my compliant toddler could not have got away with such a wordy explanation, BTW, but she did with hers) and then she's astonished when he just replies "No!" and runs off into the road! So she's having to change her approach and her expectations quite a lot.

Hiya, I'm still here just getting emotionally crawling through the last 8 weeks of this pregnancy and the usual day to day stuff with DS1 and DS2.

DS2 (18m) is becoming a bit feisty, but his sleep is slowly improving and he's still happy as ever.

I had the initial EP meeting for DS1 (four next month) 3 weeks ago at his school with his favourite nursery teacher and the schools education bod in attendance. Basically everything we've noticed has been flagged by the nursery staff and by the EP during her 45 min assessment.

Current plan is to give him extra support when he starts Reception in September for impulse control and listening, Paediatric referral is in the works and we'll continue with speech therapy side of things and get a DR's appointment to discuss DS's eating issues. I told my mum straight away, but only texted my MIL about it all just now and haven't told the rest of the family.

The above combined with kiddie snots and grots means I haven't been out much, which I know doesn't do me much good. I keep reminding DH that I want to get back to running/jogging after my 6wk PP check up, I think it'll be what I need to cope with 3 kids when two will be keeping me up at night!