Come and be a Better Parent with us in the Virtual Village

[Letsgoforawalk]

This was originally started by Another Monkey, the virtual village refers to the phrase that 'It takes a village to raise a child'.

You are welcome to vent, to ask for advice or to give us the benefit of your experience. The only thing we all seem to have in common is that we are all either ‘in there’ or have ‘been there’.

Perfection is not the goal, we are more about, as monkey brilliantly put it “choosing one thing to be less crap at at a time”.

Books recommended so far:
How To Talk so Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk
When Your Kids Push Your Buttons
The Happiness Project
Calmer Easier Happier Parenting
The Explosive Child
The Highly Sensitive Child
How to be a Better Parent: No Matter How Badly Your Children Behave or How Busy You Are

Potentially useful websites (useful in quite different ways…..)
www.theorangerhino.com
www.ahaparenting.com
www.renegademothering.com

A wide range of potential sources of advice are listed because all our children are different and no book / technique / tactic will suit every family.

A link to the original thread is shown below, and I think Monkeys OP is worth a read as she sums it all up very well…….

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/behaviour_development/a2002053-Does-anyone-else-want-to-come-and-be-a-better-parent-with-me
wecome

Yes, 2-hour tantrums sound horrible. You poor thing.

Struggling here also, although with different issues. Yesterday was a Bad Day. It started at around 4.30am, which didn't help. Both kids were in bed with me by 6am, pinching, poking and prodding me. Then it was like DD could tell I was grumpy and set out to deliberately wind me up.

(Incidentally, she does a sort of trilling thing - sounds like it may be similar to the roaring. It happens when she's stressed or a bit over-excited and seems to be a way of releasing it. It is really LOUD! She can also shriek.)

Every single thing I said was met with 'No, not that cup!' Or 'Oh, but I don't want DS to wear that bib!' Or 'I don't like pasta!' (This is when I knew she was being deliberately difficult - she fucking adores pasta, it's her favourite food.)

I tried everything to pull the day back - got us out the house to the supermarket, made a picnic lunch to eat in the garden, decided we would have 'film night'. (we've gone cold turkey on TV as it was really affecting her behaviour and she was getting obsessed with it. Film nights are usually reserved for weekends, but I was desperate.)

But still, at one point she was climbing on me and licked me (something I've told her repeatedly not to do and that I really don't like) and I lost it. I pushed her off me, shouted at her and sent her out of the room She was so upset.

I don't know what to do. I knew from before I got out of bed that my head was in a bad place, but just couldn't seem to press the reset button.

Well a 4 am start would put anyone in a bad place! I think today will have to be the reset button.
We had one roar this morning and as soon as it stopped I said "oh isn't it nice and quiet". I felt better, even if we have more later.

I like the challenge bertie. I think I am very similar to you. I am fairly laid back. I will tolerate quite a lot of noise, mess, 'bad behaviour' and then sometimes suddenly do the Jekyl-and-Hyde snap and be screaming at them. I sometimes think that I expect so little of them so often, and go out of my way so far to avoid them being in situations they find difficult to behave in (such as the supermarket- we just don't go) that when I ask them basic things, such as stay by me on the road, they should take note. Then if when they don't, I can lose it totally. Definitely affected by lack of sleep for me.

The sibling article made me laugh. I don't think I could keep any of mine talking about it for that long. Plus for me, if I'm talking to one, the other two are usually still bloody fighting. Keeping all 3 engaged is hard enough reading a story, let alone a 'proper talk' without one pushing, leaning on, otherwise irritating and therefore disrupting. One of mine is so stubborn he just won't listen and screeches at top volume ( it's so piercing) about what he antw/ how he's been wronged. It'd be a while before he was calm enough about it to talk about it- but if it's too far afterwards for my eldest she doesn't want it bringing up again. I have offered alternatives to hitting each other so often. If they're frustrated they can hit a beanbag, hit a cushion, do 'cross dance' (very stampy!!) or come and find/call for mummy. Anything to not hurt another person and make them feel sad. I have said it all so many times. It isn't working for us. And time, it also always comes down to time.

Mixed bag today. I find another trigger for me is me asking them something- not that they won't want, just any question- "would you like baked beans for lunch?" "who'd like a bath tonight?" and nothing. Not a yes, a no, a meeeee please. Nothing. As if I'd never spoken. I'm in the same room with them, I'm using their names. Nada. So irritating, so then I end up snapping at them, or clapping my hands to get their attention (

Hi all.
The "lets try that again" idea can be a real winner. I read a book that called it "action replays". It's in the "how to be a better parent" mentioned in the op. (I think...)
The 4.30 am start day sounded doomed from the offset
Well done for going to all those lengths to try and redeem it. Glad you are still sane enough to type!
When the wailing starts over "the special cup" etc what do you do? I realised at one point that there'd was a whole parent - child 'dance' going on in our house over that sort of thing. And I made a conscious effort to not give individuals their "own" cups / plates / whatever and just insist the accept what they'd been given.
Dreaming I know where you are coming from with avoidance of food battles. (Although now mine are older I have been known to say in response to the "I don't like....." Comments
"You don't have to like it, you just have to eat it." (Mean mummy )
Dog is keeping me v busy. Dreaming I think you are wise to defer for a while. We are really lucky with our rescue dog but it is still taking up loads of my time and energy. (She is a "high exercise requirement" type dog though.
Oops parent taxi time gotta go.

Oh yes Dreaming I totally relate to that feeling resentful because you don't ask much but when you do they whine about it. Hmm. I think that's us seeing it from an adult perspective and them seeing it from the perspective of "WTF, you usually let me do what I want!"

Thanks all - yes, wrt to the food thing, I very much have a 'take it or leave it' approach, (unless it's some kind of culinary experiment that has really fallen wide of the mark, but generally DD is a good eater and can find something on the plate she likes) it just got to me (and I know I shouldn't have let it) because it really couldn't be further from the truth. She loves pasta. If she doesn't have seconds I start to worry she's unwell. So her saying she didn't like it was just proof to me that she was being deliberately difficult. But I'm sure it was a reaction to my grumpy mood.

Usually with the cup thing (and in other similar situations), I try to offer a choice of 2 or 3 acceptable alternatives. I probably didn't that day. I probably just got her a drink and when she complained said something helpful like 'Oh, for goodness' sake! It's just a cup!' It turns into a bit of a vicious circle.

I am currently (very slowly) reading Calmer, Easier, Happier Parenting. Has anyone read it? Some quite good, practical ideas by the looks of it and a focus on fostering cooperation, which would be great if it works because it's the constant battles over everyday stuff that really get me down.

Anyway, feeling pretty positive the past couple of days. The weather has been glorious so we've been out in the garden a lot which, apart from being generally good for the soul, means that DD can burn off some energy without wearing me out too much in the process - win/win!

Hope you're all enjoying some sunshine too.

You're probably spot on there bertie !

We were declined our first choice primary school place. As it's since the deadline I posted about how the bigger preschool which feeds mostly into the school in our village we've been offered I have decided that as she isn't doing well at their bigger busier preschool she is also not going to the school. Plus the rumour mill has it there are still 4 children from the village not accepted so if they get in on appeal the class size would be 39 (school has form for this). Yes, split for KS1 but all taught together at KS2. We now have an appeal to look forward to so to help our appeal I've booked a private OT assessment- I know we'd never get one in time on the NHS as that's where I worked when I was a paeds physio. Just to add some more stress to the going to school mix.

I remain Jekyll and Hyde and increasingly convinced I'm going to mess the children up completely

I haven't read Calmer, Easier, Happier. There was a webchat with the author a while ago which is probably still on there, but I seem to remember I read the webchat and she annoyed me so I am irrationally put off the book entirely

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/mumsnet_live_events/1489480-Calmer-Easier-Happier-Parenting-author-N-el-Janis-Norton-live-webchat-on-Monday-11-June-noon-to-1pm

I had no idea it was that long ago

That's great, thank you, Bertie. I'll give it a read. Can you remember what it was that annoyed you about her?

Just having read through a bit of the webchat, I think it might have been the way she kept referring back to the book at every opportunity and the jargon she'd created as though it could solve every problem. Plus the idea that giving a child attention at night will encourage them to wake up more, which I find just completely nonsensical, but I know a lot of people will be with her on that one, so perhaps I'm interpreting it wrong and was being a bit quick to judge. TBH after scanning it again, I am less inclined to be immediately scornful, perhaps I have grown a fair bit in my own parenting since then! Going by the timing of the website, it was before I really changed a lot of things I was doing, so it's possible she was saying things I didn't want to hear at the time.

Bertie I don't find the attention at night encouraging waking thing nonsensical at all, we generally do things that get us attention, and children do them even more, plus they (and we) like to do things that are fun, attention is fun, we don't like to do things that are boring, lying in your bed awake is boring!

If we get up and give DS what he wants in the morning, he will keep on waking up earlier, and if he wakes up, he'll play/make noise/shout/ask for other things.

If we don't give him what he wants e.g. if he shouts for his steamroller or a book or to go to the loo (he wears a night nappy still and there's a long way to go before he'll be dry at night) or his breakfast or Mummy come get me dressed, but gets no response, it becomes boring and he goes back to sleep (or plays on his own reasonably quietly).

Neither of ours do a lot of middle of the night wakings and we do go into them if they are clearly actually distressed - which is fortunately almost never in the case of DS and only really if she's teething for DD now, and for DS in the past. And the author isn't talking about babies anyway, she only recommends her techniques for over 3s, who are fairly unlikely to have a major regular problem with night waking, but if they do, it is probably habit or related to attention.

(I am of course writing this without having read the webchat, but I have read - and like - the book.)

It's just a bit of a bugbear of mine. Not really about babies but to use the example people often give for babies waking up at night - they say what if your husband cooked your favourite meal and had mind blowing sex with you in the middle of the night. You'd wake up again for it, right?

Well no, I always think, I wouldn't, because I'd be bloody asleep! You can't just wake up on cue when you're asleep, that's why people use alarm clocks

And the analogy of having the best restaurant open 24 hours on your street corner. Well why on earth would I want to go at 3am? I'd go at 7pm, when I'm actually awake and actually hungry.

I suspect the actual issue is that it's a terrible metaphor, but still. I just don't think that children wake up on purpose for attention. Wake up naturally, and then want attention, yes of course. But actually waking up on purpose is so unlikely, it's ridiculous, in my opinion.

I don't think children are looking for fun things to do in the middle of the night, I think they're looking for comfort and reassurance that you're still there, and I would just hate (personally) not to give that. But I never really found night wakings that disturbing to me, and they were all over by 2.5 or thereabouts anyway, so I don't know what it's like to struggle with it for years and years, multiple children at once, or having to work at the same time, it's just not my experience. It's very possible that I'm skewed by that. I don't think that somebody else's opinion or approach is wrong, so please don't think that.

The 'how to be a better parent' book features Noel JAnis Norton quite a lot. She had a lot of useful stuff to say but I did find some of it a bit irritating. Some of her views on food were totally inappropriate for the kind of food issues we have in our house. One of the nice things about that book though was that it had two 'experts' advising the author, and they didn't always agree. It legitimises the reality that no one way of doing things is right for every family/child. Which is important to remember when reading stuff.

About being exciting at bedtime

Yes she does like making up her own buzzwords and then giving the hard sell. I can see why it might grate. And a lot of what she says can be found elsewhere. But I do think a lot of it is sound and is compatible with my 'parenting style'. (Which I'm still trying to figure out, of course, but I'm piecing it together, slowly.)

We are going through the nighttime waking thing atm. DD, who slept through consistently for about 2 years, decided to start getting up randomly when we took the side off her cot. She has a gro clock and fully understands its function. Unfortunately she tends to completely ignore it. We try to go for kind but boring too, i.e. pick her up and take her back to bed, but with cuddles and tucking in and make sure she doesn't need anything. That's the plan, anyway. Of course what actually happens in the middle of the night is that you stumble about like a drunk bear doing whatever it takes to get back to sleep with minimal fuss...

Another one here who prefers her gourmet food and sex at a reasonable hour.

You can't just wake up on cue when you're asleep, that's why people use alarm clocks

Of course you can. That's why you wake up a minute before the alarm goes off after a few days. And at 7 on weekends. And that's not taking account of already waking up and failing to go back to sleep because there's going to be something exciting, rather than boring dark and quiet.

Yes, calm and boring in the night but I'd always go, always speak to them and cuddle them. I've had 3 bad sleepers and all at once for a bit so you can still do it. If either of my night-nappy wearing twins wants a wee in the night I help them. They'd be so distressed to wake up for a wee and have to do it in their nappy. I also believe no matter how inconvenient, parenting is a 24 hour job; you can't clock off overnight. Maybe they're scared, maybe they're lonely, maybe they're thirsty, maybe they're bored; they still need you. And 2 of my breastfed -every-time-they-woke -for-infinity babies just became good sleepers in their own good time (by 20 months for one and about 26/30 months for the other) . One I did give up and give in and think I couldn't carry on; he got an emotional well being sleep consultant (we used Ann Caird of Nurturing Sleep) She had similar views so all worked out well. 5 months of work and my nightmare sleeper now sleeps through consistently.

Maybe I'll start with that link. I've still not finished 'siblings without rivalry' though, or 'when kids push your buttons'. It's hard. And I see Dr Laura Markham has a sibling rivalry book out soon- which I should also read as the sibling rivalry is the hardest thing for me in many ways.

If either of my night-nappy wearing twins wants a wee in the night I help them.

Maybe this makes me cruel, but we absolutely don't do this. When we put DS in his nappy for the night, he often says he needs a wee (despite having been 5 minutes earlier). He is usually a bit sleepy, and getting the nappy and wrap and onesie off is a big palaver and he would wake up, plus it would be Fun and an opportunity to race around and be uncooperative. If we leave him, then on the occasions when we've been able to check, he rarely does a wee straight away, it is usually dry till later, he just had a small feeling of needing to wee. Same thing would happen at night - he would go from very sleepy to wide awake and wanting to rave. Bedtime and night time are not times for having Fun.

He regularly used to wake up in the night (well, I say wake, but he wasn't really awake - very very drowsy) saying "milk, milk" because that's the first thing that happened in the morning. He was too old to NEED milk in the night, he was just saying it as a habit because that's the first thing that happened when he woke in the morning, he was awake, ergo it was morning. Now, he tends to say "I have a nice sleep" or "I need a wee wee" even if he doesn't, or it's 10 minutes after bedtime. It's all about habits, and those are his habitual actions/sayings after a long sleep.

We also don't go in if DD cries three times and is then completely silent. Maybe she is awake but on the occasions when we've checked she usually isn't, or she's awake but quiet and calm. If she isn't quiet and calm, then obviously we try to calm her. But not if she's woken, cried, and gone straight back to sleep or to lying calmly. As with DS, we'd just be waking her up. Why arouse a sleepy child?

Lots of adults too wake as a habit in the night. I've got into these habits myself on occasion, waking up at the same time each night and unable to work out why. If I couldn't tell time, I would probably get up and make my breakfast...

bertie I just read the Web chat thing and I think I might be you; I basically think what you did. The night time post really riled me up (and is NOT what we did successfully with my far worse sleeper; we spent months working on him feeling safe and confident to fall asleep independently. I supported him for a long while though) and always plugging the book. I also don't think stickers and reward charts are the best way to go. The sinking stuff though, I intervene a lot. But mine are quick to rise to violence.

Just posting because this had fallen off threads I'm on. I'd forgotten the "action replay" thing, will have to give it another go. Had a bit of a stressful mealtime, but discovered that the boys were squiggling around because they find the benches uncomfortable. Going to try a compromise of letting them wiggle between courses but sitting nicely while actually eating. We'll see...

Oh I didn't realise she advocated reward charts etc. (haven't got that far in the book). That's certainly not something I'll be doing - I've bought into the whole intrinsic/extrinsic motivation thing.

Still, much of it seems to be to do with how you communicate with your kids and trying to form good habits and motivate them to cooperate.

I'm sure DD will get there eventually - she can be really quite sweet and thoughtful, but she's also very high energy and easily distracted, so anything I can do to speed up the process will save us a lot of stress.

It's just different styles for different people :) There is definitely not one right answer.

I am totally at the idea of ANYBODY waking up at 7 on a weekend day BTW

I wish DD shared your point of view, Bertie

Luckily DS shares my night owl tendencies. It does mean he's a pain in the arse to get to bed, and I had to bribe him with the promise of an ice cream to get ready this morning because by the time I woke him up we had 10 minutes to get ready and leave.