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Original poster

childrens behaviour - is there such a thing as just a naughty child - why does everything have to be given a medical name?

262 replies

beatty · 22/09/2006 10:43

In society in the UK these days I think that some unacceptable behaviours in children are too quickly given a medical name. Why can't people just say that some children are naughty and need to be taught discipline rather than giving the a disorder or medical name to hide behind which then makes the behaviour more acceptable. "oh well yes the reason he behaved like that is because he suffers with X". "oh well that ok then bring on some treatment". this costs the NHS thousands where just a bit of discipline and time spent with children would do wonders. Other countries in Europe have so many fewer "behavioural problems" than here. Why is that?
I have just seen a programme this morning where children who don't know right from wrong after the age of about 3 years old has now been given a medical name...utter tosh...just parents/guardians that are probably just too lazy to bother or even badly behaved themselves (yes discipline does beginat home).

I do understand about many behavioural problems as I am a teacher and see the genuine ones every day but everything is now being given a name. When will people understand that there are naughty children out there and that's just what they are - is not medical problem!!

OP posts:
kittywits · 24/09/2006 14:04

Actually HC, thinking about it, all I wanted was to have my question answered, that is the only reason I kept asking, not beacuse I was refusing to open my eyes.

Saturn74 · 24/09/2006 14:04

Er, no - that's why I posted what I did yesterday.

It is clearly not OK in my opinion, as many posters from different view points, have been upset.

Socci · 24/09/2006 14:07

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runkid · 24/09/2006 14:11

i feel for alot of people on this thread i work with these lovely children every day and they have a tough time not only because of peoples ignorance but because they are hard to understand and many people feel uncomfortable.I enjoy my job but understand the frustration of many parents there is not enough funding or training or placements and this urgently needs rectifying

SofiaAmes · 24/09/2006 14:57

cat64, you are describing my stepson!!! There is no doubt in my mind that his mother pushed for an adhd diagnosis and ritalin so that she could get the extra money that comes with a disablity. My dh and I fought tooth and nail to stop the dr putting him on ritalin (a father's (with parental authority) complete lack of say in his son's life is a whole other thread). My poor stepson very clearly has learning difficulties and we pushed very hard for a statement (which took years) which he desperately needed. But his behavior problems were caused by his frustration in school (they unfortunatley never held him back and entered middle school completely unable to read or write...obviously a recipe for disaster) and problems in his mother's home (drugs, boyfriends, too many children, lots of moving around).
Could I point out that beatty posted in a behavior category, NOT SN. I don't think that she was referring to SN kids who truly do need help. There is very clearly a problem of underdiagnosis in that area. However, I would have thought that all the special needs parents would agree with Beatty, that resources are being wasted diagnosing non-sn children with special needs because it is the easiest route.

Socci · 24/09/2006 15:04

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Jimjams2 · 24/09/2006 15:50

A diagnosis is NOT needed to claim DLA.

ritalin won't calm a child that doesn't have ADHD (its a stimulant so will send a non ADHD child hyper) .

article on recreational use of ritalin

PeachyClairHasBadHair · 24/09/2006 16:32

No a DX isn't JimJams, but reports from at least two professionals are, and they're not exactly easy to come buy are they?

Tiggiwinkle · 24/09/2006 16:48

I also certainly do not agree with Beattys post SA, (that "resources are being wasted diagnosing non-specail needs children" etc). Wherre are all these children and what are they being diagnosed with? I cannot believe that anyone who has been through the assessment "system" can believe parents could manipulate it to their own financial advantage. Is is VERY hard to get a diagnosis and even harder to get DLA. As for eatra help for your child in school-forget it!

dinosaur · 24/09/2006 17:21

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

kittywits · 24/09/2006 17:51

Let me sum this up:

Beatty, teacher with SN child.
Cat64, senco with SN child.
Kittywits, ex-teacher with SN child.
SofiaAmes, step-child with learning difficulties.

All saying that in their opinion, misdiagnosis will sometimes have occurred, however infrequently.

No-one has said:
Misdiagnosis is frequent.
Parents of SN children are lazy (although lazy parents can have SN children the same as you and I).
That getting a diagnosis is easy.
That bringing up a child with SN is easy.
That misdiagnosis and bad parenting as is the main reason for special needs.
etc etc etc

Socci · 24/09/2006 18:00

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Socci · 24/09/2006 18:08

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Socci · 24/09/2006 18:16

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kittywits · 24/09/2006 18:41

Socci, perhaps the op HAD indeed experienced parents doing this, as has SofiaAims. It doesn't mean that you or the vast majority of parents do this, it is their experience.

I said that I count my blessings everyday and I
do.
I have a friend with a severly autisic child and I don't know how she or anyone who has to deal with that sort of SN copes day in day out. I
chose not to talk about my own child beacuse I
did not feel it was relevant. I did not want my credibility based on whether I had a child with SN. MY ds1 does have.
I don't know whatis wrong with him though DP and I very much suspect some degree of oxygen starvation at birth.
Ds1 is 8 now and becoming more 'normal' with each passing year. He does not have behavioural
problems. He has speach and language probs, finds word retreival very difficult and gets his grammar all back to front.
He has great difficulty concentrating in class
Any experts who have looked at him are baffled and we have been left to our own devices and thankfully he seems to be moving in the right direcrtion. The obvious difference between him and his class mates is getting less so and he is generally more accepted at school. I have been very worried for him though. I thank my lucky stars that his problems were not more acute and that my other children are all ok.

sorrell · 24/09/2006 18:49

The OP was deliberately inflammatory. There is no evidence whatsoever for the allegation than many 'naughty' children of 'lazy parents' are being routinely diagnosed with medical conditions. And yes, this statement: 'In society in the UK these days I think that some unacceptable behaviours in children are too quickly given a medical name. Why can't people just say that some children are naughty and need to be taught discipline rather than giving the a disorder or medical name to hide behind which then makes the behaviour more acceptable." Does imply both that this is happening routinely and that getting a diagnosis is not only easy, but a ploy by cunning yet lazy and incompetent parents. It is precisely the kind of thinking that motivates the 'special slap' brigade.

Blandmum · 24/09/2006 18:57

sorrell, while I would totaly agree with you that diagnosed children have real conditions, and that many parents are seeking a dx, and having to wait long time, I have come across parent who excuse their NT children's poor behaviour by spurious claims to a 'condition.

For example last year I taught a totaly NT child. He significantly underperformed because he was silly and lazy. I arranged a meeting with his mother. She told me that they were considering taking him to the doctor because he had Tourettes. The child was tic free, he didn't suffer from any involentary actions or utterences. He never swore in front of me, or any other teacher. His mother was convinced that he must have tourettes because he swore at home.

It is people like that woman who do great disservive to the parents and children wuth real SEN.

sorrell · 24/09/2006 19:03

Well, yes, but the difference is, he had a silly mother, not a diagnosis! Of course bad parenting exists. I see it every time I walk into Primark! And of course bad parenting damages children. But the OP's premise was that 'unacceptable behaviours in children are too quickly given a medical name'. And others here have suggested doctors deliberately diagnose conditions to 'keep the numbers up' (for some mysterious reason). I shouldn't be shocked, really, as I know people think like this. It's a very popular viewpoint. And it is the reason I don't tell people about my son's diagnosis, and why I spent the whole of a party on Saturday on tenterhooks, watching and guiding my son so he could fit in as well as possible and nobody would start giving me those funny looks, while the other mummies, (not 'lazy' ones like me) sat about cheerfully chatting and drinking wine. I don't blame them - I envy them.

Blandmum · 24/09/2006 19:06

Quite.

What was awful is that we have had a young man who really has tourettes in the school. When I think of all the things this young man had to put up with, and this stupid woman was seeking to excuse her foul mouthed offspring by sugesting he had a 'condition'.

Socci · 24/09/2006 19:11

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Blandmum · 24/09/2006 19:16

oh no, I don't think a paed would, in a million years. I don't think the gp would have refered the kid for starters, as he had no symptoms except for swearing at home!

My point in not that he would get an inceooect dx, but rather that some people 'self diagnose' kids who have poor behaviour who have no appreciable sn. And that this muddies the waters for people who's children have real sen and are seaking 'real' diagnoses.

The 'i think arabella might be a 'bit' dyslexic' sort of thing rather than ' I think arabella needs to stop flirting in class and concentrate' sort of thing!

Blandmum · 24/09/2006 19:19

Socci, aslso agree with your point about the parents being in a position to 'see' the child's whole profile. However this boy never showed a single tic, jerk or grunt in the two years that I taught him, or to any of my collegues. While under stress....when Touretters react most, he was totaly fine. he never swore with me, or with any other teacher. He had, in the two years I saw him, no symptoms of tourettes at all.

Blandmum · 24/09/2006 19:28

and I fully see, un understand the stress that parents are put under child going through the umpteen hoops that are placed in their way while they seek to get the help that their children need and deserve.

I am not, for one minute saying that parents waiting on a dx for real asd or adhd or ts are like this silly woman.

But this was a case of a mother of an NT child seeking to excuse his behaviour by a spurious self diagnosis of a condition that the child simply didn't have.

Socci · 24/09/2006 19:40

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Blandmum · 24/09/2006 19:44

I agree totaly that parental observation is key.

I also agree that dx is rigorous.

But it makes me livid when the sort of thing that I have desribed happenes, as it devalues the real dx, IYSWIM.

I also get pissed off when kids blithly tell you that they can't help shouting out because they have tourettes They have no farking idea how debilitating this condition can be.