childrens behaviour - is there such a thing as just a naughty child - why does everything have to be given a medical name?

[beatty]

In society in the UK these days I think that some unacceptable behaviours in children are too quickly given a medical name. Why can't people just say that some children are naughty and need to be taught discipline rather than giving the a disorder or medical name to hide behind which then makes the behaviour more acceptable. "oh well yes the reason he behaved like that is because he suffers with X". "oh well that ok then bring on some treatment". this costs the NHS thousands where just a bit of discipline and time spent with children would do wonders. Other countries in Europe have so many fewer "behavioural problems" than here. Why is that?
I have just seen a programme this morning where children who don't know right from wrong after the age of about 3 years old has now been given a medical name...utter tosh...just parents/guardians that are probably just too lazy to bother or even badly behaved themselves (yes discipline does beginat home).

I do understand about many behavioural problems as I am a teacher and see the genuine ones every day but everything is now being given a name. When will people understand that there are naughty children out there and that's just what they are - is not medical problem!!

I saw the OP and my blood boiled. I'm so glad others took up the cudgel. My eldest DS has something not right. We have no idea what but it seems like Aspergers or HFA. For years and years and years we took him to doctors and clinics and were told he was fine. At school it was clear to the Reception teacher that he wasn't fine and she referred us to the hospital. They said they didn't know what it was but as an aside obviously he had dyspraxia as well.. (as if we knew what it was). He got one 8 week session of OT at the age of 7. That was it. The rest of his treatment has been monthly cranial osteopathy sessions paid for by us.

DS2 was clearly more agile and able than DS1 but very difficult to handle once he got to 3 or 4. We were accused of bad parenting. The difference is though that a badly behaved child will not behave in the same way at home, at school, at a friends house and with grandma. A child with ADHD will. I fought for a dx for that child, having been brushed off with the other one. Actually I would have been happy to think that it was just crap parenting because at least we could have done something about that. School couldn't cope with him and there were constant complaints about him leaving the classroom or attacking other children. Luckily I have forgotten just how bad those days were.

DX and a prescription for ADs (not instant ritalin) at age 7 were followed by a transfer to a private school where the 16 kids in the class all faced the teacher and did the same thing at the same time. Miraculous tranformation for a while.

It is still obvious that neither of my elder sons are "normal". DS2 at 17 years old will hug me in public and was delighted when I spent the day at his school, while DS3 (NT) aged 14 reacted in a more normal way and likes to pretend we aren't related or even know each other. There have been some huge downs too, like the frantic phone call from the school that he had told a friend he wanted to kill himself when he was 12 or 13, because he knows his behaviour socially upsets people and he felt he was in the way (his meds needed increasing because he'd had a growth spurt).

And still people tell me "there is no such thing as ADHD"

Everyone? Really? When they say: 'Why can't people just say that some children are naughty and need to be taught discipline rather than giving the a disorder or medical name to hide behind?'
Or
'Some parents do not believe that their child could possibly just be in need of some good discipline and their children would not possibly behave the way they do so therefore lets look for a medical excuse for the behaviour.'
Or:
'A chemical imbalance or psychological disturbance may be responsible for many cases of behavioural problems, but I think the numbers attributed to these conditions far exceed the genuine sufferers. A hefty proportion are just badly brought up by lazy/neglectful or abusive parents who manage to absolve themselves from any responsibility by giving their bad behavious a medical name, thus passing the buck elsewhere.'
Or
'It seems quite obvious to me that she is saying that people are too quick to label any kind of naughtiness or behavioural difficulty with some medical jargon when all it is is 'naughtiness' caused for whatever reason.'

You know, in RL I never talk about my brother. Even to people I think I'm close to. And I don't tell people about my son's diagnosis either. Why? Because I know what people think. They think like the people on this thread. I don't know anyone who has had a diagnosis who hasn't wanted to lie on the floor and sob and sob and sob. And not getting a diagnosis is even bloody worse. I'm not an idiot. I know how people sneer and judge and think themselves such wonderful people because their child doesn't have special needs.

And it really feels like a kick in the teeth to spill your emotional guts and still have people imply that a few kids getting a tiny bit of attention is worse than the utter fuck-ups that were the lives of children with ASDs without diagnoses, like my brother.
Did anyone see the story of the boy with Aspergers who is in a secure unit for the rest of his natural life because he killed someone. He had a brilliant intellect, no social skills whatsoever and ended up sweeping the floors in Macdonalds. Despite his obvious disability his parents had never even heard of Aspergers. What a total disaster for him, his family, his victim, and her family. Hey, but at least he wasn't leeching DLA off the state, eh?

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Hello all,

Sorry I have not been around to fight my corner so to speak but I have a life and also need to look after my own SN son (yes I do understand about SN children contrary to what you all think just because I don't mention it you all presumed I know nothing about it). I don't get much time on here hence my absence from here since yesterday afternoon. I only have a brief time on here this morning so I will get to the point.

HOW DARE you presume that I have no idea what I am talking about. I fought for a long time to get my ds a diagnosis. What my OP was about is that IMO and YES I AM ALLOWED AN OPINION BUT IT DOESN'T MAKE IT WRONG JUST BECAUSE IT ISN'T THE SAME AS YOURS - IMO it is too easy for SOME parents to look for a medical term for their childrens behaviour. This takes up a lot of resources hence the times it takes for diagnosis to be made. That's all. Yes I am a teacher and a bloody good one. I have more insight into SN than most teachers.

On that note I do not intend to frequent this site much more now as I am becoming increasingly annoyed and pissed off at people who think that anyone who does not agree with their opinons are wrong. There is no respect among certain people and I cannot stand that. No tolerance is shown on here amongst may posters but yet so high and mighty about things they feel they are experts on well you are not and don't get so arsey about things when people don't agree with you.

Now can someone please tell me how to de-register from this site please.

it's ok I have found it and emailed tech team to register me.

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Beatty, so sorry, this has happened to you. Your views on how you have been treated do make me now truly beleive that certain behaviours here are off the wall.
Most people on MN are not unpleaseant and attacking. It would be great if you hung around and found some threads that show how supportive most people here can be. You also get to know the hard way who you just don't get on with and you can either avoid or ignore then. Please think about sticking around for a bit.

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Socci, you and I and beatty obviously have a very very different ideas about what it means to attack someone. I think the attitudes and answers by some people on this thread were just awful and now someone has been made so upset by this that they don't want to be part of organisation any more. If you think that is jusified then I have nothing left to say to you.

beatty,i for one read ur op wrong and maybe others did too,which is why i corrected myself halfway through this thread.i realised u werent refering to specific conditions such as adhd etc and that id just seen it as an imflamatory rant when it was not intended as that

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What sort of SN does your son have Beatty? I'm just surprised by your OP, as most people with children with SN have come across the tut tut brigade a lot more than any cases of incorrect diagnosis.

Cat-how do you know for sure there was misdiagnosis in the case you are talking sbout? Was the diagnosis later retracted?
Kittywits-I suggest you knew the OP was inflammatory. Otherwise how do you account for your "GO Beatty" post early on in the thread?

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I was rude and aggressive. Many regular posters will perhaps understand how divorced that is foom normal peachy,a d perhaps see how much this deabte means to me.

beatty of course you were free to cme on and post your opinions; as a discussion forum we were then entitled to questioon and debate. Had you stuck around to debate it yourself you might have led the debate more; as such you chose not to and therefore like all MN threads it developed a life of it's pwn. THAT id the point of debate.

No Tiggy, I didn't think it was really inflammatory I did however find her honesty refreshing in a culture where we feel we have to guard our views and tiptoe around others. I admired her guts, I would not have the guts.
It's just a shame she has been shot down. Some people seem to go round with their hands over their eyes and their fingers in their ears, refusing to change their point of view or ideas in response to any new posts. It's like someone hasn't actually said anything new at all and then when accused of saying something they deny it, even though it's written in black and white by them!! I find it astounding behaviour.

I read through all of this, I wsa going to attempt to say something objective, to state my view without getting peoples backs up.

Unfortunatley, I've had it up to the ears with people touting misdiagnosis and bad parenting as being the main reason for special needs and children with behavioural problems. No doubt there are parents who read about a condition and look at their child and decide thats what it is, he's not naughty he's got ' insert disorder here' and thats awful, but thats bot misdiagnosis - to my knowledge you don't have any kind of diagnosis until your child ahs had several assessments, been observed in multiple settings by a multi agency team, and had blood tests and urine samples analysed and you yourself questioned and scrutinized by all the same specialists... Thats certainly how it is for Autism, its not a condition you could fake, in fact even when its glaringly obvious theres normally some consultant or professional witters about not labelling a child.

But really, if you start questioning SEN and behaviourla problems and say its all the fault of lazy parents, well your going to get peoples backs up.

So, Beatty is a an experienced teacher with a SN child, of course that means she is entirely unqualified to speak on this subject, has no experience and has made ill informed views as you said Socci "I make no apologies for getting angry - not because anyone doesn't agree with me but because I dislike ill informed views which make my child's life and others like her even more difficult than it already is!"

Yeah right

Re "Some people seem to go round with their hands over their eyes and their fingers in their ears, refusing to change their point of view or ideas in response to any new posts" from Kittywits.

That's exactly what I thought when I posted yesterday, stating:

"The process to get a diagnosis is long and tedious, as has been posted previously. It is not the decision of one person, but of many. This point has been made numerous times, yet the same questions keep being asked. I don't see the point in continually stating the opposite when it is clearly so upsetting to others".

That makes it ok then HC ?