childrens behaviour - is there such a thing as just a naughty child - why does everything have to be given a medical name?

[beatty]

In society in the UK these days I think that some unacceptable behaviours in children are too quickly given a medical name. Why can't people just say that some children are naughty and need to be taught discipline rather than giving the a disorder or medical name to hide behind which then makes the behaviour more acceptable. "oh well yes the reason he behaved like that is because he suffers with X". "oh well that ok then bring on some treatment". this costs the NHS thousands where just a bit of discipline and time spent with children would do wonders. Other countries in Europe have so many fewer "behavioural problems" than here. Why is that?
I have just seen a programme this morning where children who don't know right from wrong after the age of about 3 years old has now been given a medical name...utter tosh...just parents/guardians that are probably just too lazy to bother or even badly behaved themselves (yes discipline does beginat home).

I do understand about many behavioural problems as I am a teacher and see the genuine ones every day but everything is now being given a name. When will people understand that there are naughty children out there and that's just what they are - is not medical problem!!

people have suggested ds2 might have "behavioural difficulties" but he is just disobedient, badly behaved but he is two and i think its normal!

HC - could I contact you? Want to talk about the food thing I mentioned on another thread.

"behavioural difficulties" is not a diagnosis though.

DS3 (20 months) is strong willed. He goes to nursery one day a week, they describe him as "independent". He is not remotely anywhere near any sort of diagnosis.

DS1 is severely autistic (age 7 can't talk etc etc). I first raised concerns with professionals when he was 20 months old. He was diagnosed after the age of 3. The idea that professionals just hand these diagnoses out is utterly ridiculous.

The ignorance of teachers to deal tih special needs reflects not only experience also, but also a current campaign by the national Autistic Society to ensure trainee teachers receive SN training at somepoint during their education. Pretty damned shocking that they dont already, imo. Lets down ALL the children in a class.

Just an example of my SWNCO: 'DS1 fighting with (severe frequent attacks leading to hospitalisation) his brother is normal, you're making too much of it'. Today: 'I am having to prevent DS1 from associating with X (the nearest thing he ahs to a friend) as they have a bizarre love hate relationshiop'

Bixarre? He has a DX of asd you daft woman! ie cannot manage relationships appropriately, and this kids (who you worked hard to match him with iirc) is a particualrly hippyish touchy feely kind of guy. WHAT DO YOU EXPECT? Then I hear they ahve had to bring in ed psych to do training sessions for some six kids...... shock horror, could ahve told you that six months ago >

behavioural difficulties = difficulty behaving

ie naughty OR sn OR traumatised by something- lots of things

not specfic and not (as JimJams says) a DX

Having read some of the SN threads and the exremem difficulties parents seem to have to get any kind of formal diagnosis, I find it simply laughable that someone is suggesting they are just handed out like sweeties!

The two autistic children (twins) I work with at a school have got much worse behaviour wise since they left their early intervention centre and started mainstream. Their teacher shouts at them, and keeps "forgetting" to show them their cards. She is making life difficult for all of them. I don't think she has any understanding at all really.

They are separating the twins next term and I predict that instead of lashing out at each other - they will lash out at other kids.

The NAS Make School Make Sense campaign. Essential reading for any teacher I would have thought.

The PDF at the bottom of the linked page is particularly worth reading.

Erm have we lost th OP?

I don't think Beatty is saying at all for one minute that there are not special needs children. iI don't understand why so many of you have got on your high horses about that and some of you have been downright rude.
It seems quite obvious to me that she is saying that people are too quick to label any kind of naughtiness or behavioural difficulty with some medical jargon when all it is is 'naughtiness' caused for whatever reason.

I read an article today about adult ADHD and you can get Ritalin prescribed for it. The journalist self diagnosed and got a script for it. I must admit to wondering if that is what is wrong with me. The Ritalin was very effective but er DH found her boring. Ah well you can please some of the people.....

It takes an average of three years to get a diagnosis for Sn in my area. OOh that's quick, better slow down and not be so judgemental.

And yes I was rude. I intended to be. If you look back over six years of psoting you will see that not only am I NOT rude as a rule, I am usually the one preaching tolerance and acceptance. Bt the sort of tosh backfires onto people like me and my son, it really does. people say 'Oh yes I heard some teacher saying...' when actually, TTeachers are not ualified to decide who has Sn and who has behavioural issues linked to other reasons.

And I agree with the poster that says there's no such thing as a naughty child, just a naughty behaviour. go round telling kids that they're naughty... well you grow what you sow

I would be interested to hear your opinion of what 'normal' naughty behaviour consists of.

when i think back to when i was at school(in the 80's)conditions such as adhd and asd were pretty much unheard of,kids were labelled as 'naughty' or 'weird'.in the same way dyslexic kids were labelled as 'thick'.
from what i know of special needs,it is a long and difficult process trying to get a diagnosis,and they are not given out lightly.
i agree that some parents say their child has something wrong with them just to cover up the fact that they havent been very good parents,and to make excuses,but i doubt very much the experts get it wrong.

Kittywits, do please enlighten us as to how you gained your expert knowledge of special needs and how you know so much better than consultant paediatricians. In particular would be very interested to know the basis for your assertion that children who are 'just naughty' have been diagnosed with medical conditions. I ask, you see, because so many children with special needs and their parents suffer greatly because people often say such things in absolute ignorance of what having special needs really involves.

I was a naughty child ats chool in the seventies / eighties. labelled as a freak and a nerd; I know know through learning about ds1 that i too share his AsD traits, albeit to a lesser degree (I don't goa round beating poele ). back then, nobody knew half as much- it existed but went undetected. AS wasn't even formally created as a disorder until the fifies.

Had I received the right support in tschool, I wouldn't have crashed through my teens and twenties in quite the same way, and I would have managed Uni at the same stage as everyone else (I went to a college to do a diploma, but couldn't cope alone- couldn't face using a communal kitchen or sitting room, would starve instead). Now instead I am having to do it a 33 which is great that I ahve he chance, but sad that Is hould have X years of graduate career behind me

can i send my 'just naughty' child to you to sort out?

i have tried, i really have. now we are struggling to get a dx and it has been suggested that she sees a physchologist. she is 4yrs old.

Sorrel, calm down a bit and read my post. I was discussing MY interpretation of Beatty 's op.
No doubt there are many undiagnosed SN children. However who are you or anyone to say that there are those that are also misdiagnosed? You cannot say or indeed prove that that is not the case.

The SN boards on MN have been an education for me. Pre-MN, I would have been sympathetic/accepting towards people with obvious SN but I wouldn't have appreciated the problems faced by children who look NT to a passer-by but actually have real problems.

Now I really irritate my mother by failing to engage with the stories she occasionally relates of seeing children behave oddly when out and about. She so wants me to join in with a 'parents today don't bother to discipline their children' rant. I just listen and suggest that maybe, some of these behaviours might be SN-related. Really winds her up.

Maybe some of the children she's talking about are just badly-behaved, but I can't tell, and neither can she, so you may as well give the other person the benefit of the doubt.

Er big difference. The diagnosed kids are being diagnosed by highly qualified professionals after years of worry by parents. You, however, are making an assertion with absolutely no knowledge whatsoever. A great big guess or assumption based, I suspect, on prejudice. Which really and truly pisses a lot of people off.

plus, it's proven that some kids are undiagnosed- xoz every kid is before dx. Wheres the evidence of mis diagnosis?

And A dx doesn't come from one professional trust me, it's a nightmare co ordinating them all; SALT, OT, Paeds, Ed PSych- all get an input

Yes, but Sorrel you are also saying that the experts get it right all the time? yeah . Of course they know more than you and I , that's their job, but they also get things wrong too. That has been my experience of medical 'experts'

Peachy, where's the evidence that there is no misdiagnosis?