Come and be a better parent in the trenches! Thread 2

[BertieBotts]

Terrible title sorry Next time we'll start the discussion at 900 posts, OK?

Originally started by AnotherMonkey, we are trying to improve our parenting which may include less shouting (www.theorangerhino.com) and positive boundary setting (www.ahaparenting.com), or any other goal you want. If you want to be more authoritative that's a great cause too. No judging of parenting styles allowed, honest critique OK. There is occasionally homework (but really, honest, we're nice and don't care if you want to skip past that bit)

Dumping of emotions/ranting after a bad day also acceptable. The saying "in the trenches" refers mainly to having 2+ under 5 but really any stage which is repetitive, challenging, soul destroying about parenting.

Books recommended so far:
How To Talk so Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk
When Your Kids Push Your Buttons
The Happiness Project
Calmer Easier Happier Parenting
The Explosive Child
The Highly Sensitive Child

Please post a little intro/reminder just with your DCs ages/stages and any extra challenges - a couple of us have relocated abroad, that kind of thing.

Ooh I don't see any links on either of our posts, weird, wonder what that is about?

I think what I missed when DS was very little was more grown up company, though I actually had quite a lot. It's just I needed more! I think that was because DP wasn't able to be around much due to his job and I didn't have a mum around to help out or just be around. So although I wasn't geniuinely isolated I did feel alone with things for long stretches. Being able to access the internet for other new mums' experiences and find information on breastfeeding and other niggling worries and get new ideas during those long hours alone with the baby would have really helped! And just to watch a nice movie or something easily would have been nice too

bertie that was great! you are totally right and thank you for taking me through it in such detail. She is definitely scared a lot of the time I think, and it comes out as hitting.

I should add that she would never lash out at anyone who wasn't a family member

Oops posted too soon by accident!

bertie I am loving your daily target notes. Real memory in the making stuff.

rhetorician I was frustrated yesterday with the same sort of thing from my DS, it wound me up a lot actually. Then I remembered doing the same thing myself as a kid. For me the silence and refusal to connect with the issue came from shame and embarrassment, feeling unlovable and awful. Lots of huge feelings that I couldn't articulate (still learning!) and was overwhelmed by. Thinking about that gave me a different way to view DS. But the ignoring still winds me up! I am trying to work out a new way to approach talking about things in case his silence come from a similar place as mine did. Reassurance would have helped me as a kid, as I felt the disapproval and having been bad meant I was unloveable and awful. No idea if DS is feeling anthing close to what I did.

Oh I have cross posted repeatedly, will go and read before posting anything else!

She already would identify how anger feels, like a rumbling in her tummy that rolls all over her body. Sigh. I have so much work to do with her - I feel like a complete failure, totally failed to recognise her distress when smaller (especially after her sister was born), responded with anger (at worst) and ignoring (at best), and this has led us to where we are now.

I am clearly a very negative person. Watched Dd2 running off after drop off today, and said "ah, she's never going to be a runner". Other mother said, 'But she's smiley and cheerful"

Rhetorician if you swap DS for DD, you have just transcripted me and DS more or less word for word. Uncanny.

Talking to DS about behaviour at worst sends him completely bonkers and at best leads to conversations like the above. I've basically stopped the talks. He knows what he's done wrong for the most part anyway. In fact, I'm generally finding that the less I say, the more he steps up and apologises or finds a way to help make up for what he's done without me even having to sort out the consequence bit.

That's not to say he gets away with stuff

Bertie's second paragraph is very much the kind of thing I'm talking about, but I don't recognise the pdf - was it definitely our thread? I'm interested to read that too!

What sort of things is she getting up to, rhet ?

Bertie you sound so much happier . DS's favourite at the moment is 'You're STUPID'. Closely followed by 'I don't love you' and 'you're not my best friend'. Charming. I got a real tirade this morning and all I was doing was cleaning my teeth - I'm still not sure what I did to enrage him. Pretty sure I was brushing properly

LetsGo your post really made me smile! I'm glad you had a great time at the cycling

Out of my three targets, planning some things for myself has definitely lifted my mood but the one which has had the most impact by far with the DCs is the slowing down. Slowing the pace and also slowing down my reaction time.

I've also been thinking a lot about something I read (linked to on here - I think it's in The Mother Trip, maybe Brene Brown) about being 'good enough'. I can actually feel myself letting go of this need for perfection. Firstly, it's not really to do with my own aspirations, it's the belief that I'll only be liked/respected/accepted if I'm perfect. And actually, the opposite is probably true, right? And secondly, while I don't want to let go of the part of me which wants to make the best of things, being 'good enough' is OK. I'm finding it much easier to let go of stuff, instead of going over and over situations which nobody else probably remembers but which I didn't handle perfectly.

The thing I'll be working on this week: at my very very low point a couple of weeks ago, I kind of threw my hands up and decided I was so crap that everyone else could take over responsibility. This strangely had a bonding effect for me and DH, I guess it's unusual for me to actually admit that I'm not perfect struggling. Since things have improved for me with the DCs, I can feel myself getting irate with him again if he gets impatient. This is unfair because I have my own share of moments like that. I want to work on keeping that closeness between me and DH this week. Which I think is incredibly relevant to our parenting - having that sense of support is something we're not always great at but it really helped.

Oh I am just SO slow at posting! I've missed so many posts....

This is why my posts have been so short recently!

rhet I reckon most of us on this thread can relate to your DDs behaviour. It's not uncommon and you're not a failure, although I know firsthand how acutely it can feel like that sometimes.

rhetorician ....what Bertie and dishes said is/ are spot on, I was going to add some thing that you have already identified. If you could make your bedtime observation positive not negative it would point her in the right direction for the behaviour you are trying to encourage.
Eg. Instead of asking her to think about not hitting the following day, try to think of a situation that has occurred that day where she managed her frustration without becoming angry or punching anyone. Bring that up with a whole boatload of praise. "I loved the way you cooperated with me today to get the toys put away. I know you wanted to watch TV but you listened and helped. That made my day, I'm glad I've got such a thoughtful child."
Instead of reminding her that she is someone who hits people you have told her she is co-operative, helpful, a good listener, thoughtful.

This is 'descriptive praise' and you've probably read about it in HTT and are familiar with it. The books are great but it takes a while to put things like this into practice. If you are not used to saying this sort of thing it feels unnatural and a bit contrived, it is worth persisting though. Soon it comes more naturally and it is quite motivating because it really works well (most of the time). It can be difficult to find a positive some days but there is usually something they did that you can tell them you liked.

My DD3 (12) can be and has been a bit like you describe. The good news is you can do something about it. And you are in a great place to get support as you make changes

Yes, I know. I keep thinking that she will grow out of things, but here we are going on for 6 with tantrums, lashing out and hitting, learned helplessness when (seemingly) her peers have moved on to friendships and learning stuff. She can be quite nasty to her sister in particular, although this goes in phases. I don't think people really get how difficult it can be, particularly as she is well behaved at school, and is perceived as odd rather than as naughty.

Oh my goodness Bertie, reading. that makes me.realise I'm doing nothing like that. At all. My dd was 4 yesterday so only slightly younger. I tell them I love them no matter what they do and. that's about it

Still.on holiday. tiring but they love it. Trying to. keep up with you all!

See I thought I was being quite positive in that exchange!! How do I stop being so negative?

Ooh massive xpost!
On the subject of perfection, we should all strive to be not perfect.
Feargal Sharkey puts it well.....
m.youtube.com/watch?v=Pgqa3cVOxUc

X post with a million others. Sorry. slow connection.

another I really hope I am 'good enough'. I'd like to be marvellous but clearly am not. Dt1 continues to push my buttons on a hourly daily basis. What do you actually do to slow your reaction times? any techniques or just don't leap in? I've been trying to just not leap in but it's not quite enough I don't think. And. absolutely with the dh snapping and me thinking dreadful things when I'm just as bad myself.

Huge epic argument with dh on holiday. Not great. Patched it up, just about. Still feeling a bit crap about it all though

rhetorical I'm. clearly a novice as until I read. The following comments I thought you were too. Is making me reevaluate how 'positive' or not. I am too actually. its so easy to read about nut so hard to do/notice in yourself in reality I think.

Again, following on from what others have said...

I remember mentioning in a previous post (poss old thread) that I used to be better at being pragmatic about DS's grumpy moods/bad behaviour, identifying the need behind the behaviour and addressing that.

I've realised that as he's grown up, I hadn't kept up with his new 'needs'. His need for responsibility and autonomy and nurturing a positive self awareness. And of course, sometimes he's still just hungry or tired or grumpy. So I'm trying to do the minimum required to 'discipline' but pour lots of energy into ensuring his more complex needs are met. In fact, if anyone can think of any others at this age it would help, because it's really having an impact here.

Let's see how many posts I've missed........

I suppose the "being positive/being negative thing" only 'matters' if the child doesn't cope with whatever response they are getting. Some children, when told off think 'oh, I behaved badly. Parents are displeased. Next time I will behave differently' (I may have simplified for the sake of brevity )
Other children when told off think 'oh, I was bad. Parents are displeased. I am bad. I must behave like a bad person because I am bad.' (Again oversimplified! ) Some kids can just work out what they should be doing, or care enough about the telling off to just cower or hide their bad behaviour where parents can't see it. Others just rise to the challenge of being bad once they have that as part of their image of themselves.
Amateur psychology, this may be crap as it's late and I'm a bit tired and not expressing myself well.
Also realise I have totally given my age away with the undertones link

It's a great song letsgo, and your account totally makes sense

Ah, the undertones..... makes me think of cheesy chips, sticky floors and beer

letsGo I keep meaning to mention that I ordered that book you recommended from Amazon, it sounded really interesting. It's not arrived yet, I need to chase that up.

dreaming I'm trying to think if I can pin down anything specific. I think the biggest change here was that I really did feel like I was sinking and backed right off, which showed unexpectedly positive results fast so I stuck with it. I'm trying really hard to keep that sense of distance which sounds really strange because creating that distance has let in a lot more love. I'm not explaining it well at all. I'll try to think of a way to explain better, I suppose it's creating my own autonomy from them so that their bad moods or behaviour don't instantly crank up my own stress levels, meaning that I have a bit more time to assess before saying/doing anything.

had a good cry about DD1 when out for my run - all the things that I had hoped for her, and how much we have fed that negative image of herself. I hope we can make it better. It is nice to be on here though, and not get advice of the you just need to be firm/my children know when I mean it/stamp your authority on them etc etc. I know I need to do things better and in ways that work better for my child, but I also know my child needs something much more complicated than the usual approaches (which work fine with DD2 who doesn't have the temperament/issues/whatevers that DD1 has)

Oh lovely of course it will get better! You haven't ruined anything. Or failed. I saw your podt this morning but can't reply properly as on train. No self beating up allowed on the thread! Remember, we all do the bestwe can with the information we have at the time. Wish j could post more, phone is a pain in the arse.