Come and be a better parent in the trenches! Thread 2

[BertieBotts]

Terrible title sorry Next time we'll start the discussion at 900 posts, OK?

Originally started by AnotherMonkey, we are trying to improve our parenting which may include less shouting (www.theorangerhino.com) and positive boundary setting (www.ahaparenting.com), or any other goal you want. If you want to be more authoritative that's a great cause too. No judging of parenting styles allowed, honest critique OK. There is occasionally homework (but really, honest, we're nice and don't care if you want to skip past that bit)

Dumping of emotions/ranting after a bad day also acceptable. The saying "in the trenches" refers mainly to having 2+ under 5 but really any stage which is repetitive, challenging, soul destroying about parenting.

Books recommended so far:
How To Talk so Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk
When Your Kids Push Your Buttons
The Happiness Project
Calmer Easier Happier Parenting
The Explosive Child
The Highly Sensitive Child

Please post a little intro/reminder just with your DCs ages/stages and any extra challenges - a couple of us have relocated abroad, that kind of thing.

dreaming you have described my life! I definitly need to turn my phone off, its just too tempting and I often think its part of the problem.

Done well today. Got dss to clean their room and kept my cool when dd2 had a complete meltdown this evening. In fairness I think she may have a virus and she was tired and she just lost the plot!

Back to work for me today, though only a short day. DCs were good for the GPs and I was pleased to see them when I got back. Calm tea time and then DSs swimming lessons. DD wanted to come and watch and so I let her and she was excellent. Both to bed without any hassle. Funnily enough I haven't shouted at all today! If only every day could be like today - I am a good parent when they behave and I am not stressed - but I know that is the easy part. It is dealing with them calmly when they are being a pain/fighting etc I need to work on.

My phone is quite slow for the internet so I never even try to mumsnet from it. I do check Facebook too often though but I am going to try and put it to one side when I am with the kids. My email is not working properly on it at the moment but I think I am going to leave that and then I will use it less too. I am trying to limit the laptop to when they are not around. DH is always on his phone and it really annoys me so I don't want to be hypocritical about it.

Last day with the DCs tomorrow before school starts. I was planning a nice chilled day together, few jobs to get done (like hair cuts) and some fun - eg park, maybe lunch out but DH has invited a couple he works with and their kids (older) over for the whole day - lunch and dinner. I am pissed off about it (I don't really have much in common with them and their kids are older and a bit weird tbh). I know I am being a BU but I wanted a last day with just the DCs and didn't want my house trashed and late nights for the kids just before school (they are very messy people and I know I will end up tidying/hovering etc after they go) DH thinks I am BU but it is annoying when he has worked half the weekend and lots of evenings but can waste a day inviting these people around. Sorry - I rant too much about DH on here, but I am well aware my biggest parenting issues comes from my frustrations with him, which make me grumpy and then I grump at the DCs.

hic - welcome. I know only too well the asking 54 times to get something done bit! And the waking each day with a resolution to be less shouty etc - which normally lasts till one of them starts whinging about something or fighting!

Wow. Just back from my holidays with a fresh outlook and tonnes of resolutions to find we've made it onto a new thread! I feel excited and a little emotional :)

Bio: I have two lovely boys aged 5.5 and 2.8. We moved to the USA from the UK in January this year for my job where I am FT. DH is a SAHD. I joined the original thread when I felt our world was falling apart I had torn our life apart after the move. It has been a struggle but we are definitely all in a better place than we were and I have to thank the lovely ladies on this thread for keeping me sane.
mrsfrumble definitely know a little about what you are going through so if I can help at all just shout!
bertie I think the intro is fab - good job!
letsgo don't even think about going anywhere - you are here for the long run we need you!
monkey you have really done an amazing thing here, don't you forget that!
Hi to all the new folk - looking forward to getting to know you all.

I am so in for the techno challenge. DH and I are definitely guilty of too much time with our noses glued to the phone/tablet and it is noticeably affecting the boys who play up when they know we are not paying attention and would always rather play on a device than anything else. The little one only recently was allowed to start using his brother's leap pad and he is a textbook example of why he is too young - the despair when we ask him to stop is quite disturbing and the "please me play on DS's leap pad just for one tiny bit?", whilst cute, is heartbreaking when I know that No will only bring on tears and hysteria. One of my holiday resolutions was to try harder to stop using the phone in front of the kids, stop wasting precious time looking at inane facebook posts at any time of the day and spend more time speaking to DH or even watching TV together once the DCs are in bed instead of each of us inhabiting our own private and separate online lives.

Abrupt ending there - I also meant to say, both boys start school this month (Kindergarten and Pre-School) so I do really feel like this is a new stage in our adventure over here. I am determined that it will be an even better instalment if I can just keep a lid on the bubbling temperaments (mine and the boys'!)

Tongue Tie snow? Has he been assessed properly ie by someone who really knows what they're talking about? Friend had horrendous issues with her DS, took months for tongue tie to be diagnosed, it was so bad that he couldn't latch onto a bottle either so she was stuck feeding him in tons of pain with milk streaming out the side of his mouth. She couldn't go out because the only way she could feed him was to totally strip off on the top half and lie down. She's just had her second child and the same thing has happened again - awful restrictive tongue tie. Cut at 2 days old, better, reattached, cut again at a few weeks, reattached. She's just had it cut for the third time by another consultant and she's hoping it will be final this time because there's a "diamond shaped wound" which is apparently what you should look for. It's so tough though :(

3 days is a good idea for a challenge. About the tech challenge... I don't want to I mean I do want to be less reliant on stuff, but I'm scared to do it. How pathetic is that? I don't think I can launch into a challenge without getting some coping strategies in place first.

If I try to think back to when he was littler, I had a similar issue in filling the time without going back to the computer. My issue is that it's not a phone or a tablet or anything portable, I'm literally sat at my desk avoiding the whole world, really, it's like my safe space where I don't have to think about or face anything that needs doing.

So I used to fill the time with housework mostly, and going out. I mean realistically, this is silly. We get back from Kindergarten at 2 or 2.30 if we go to the shop or something. So that gives me only 4.5-5 hours to fill until bedtime. And we need to have lunch and dinner in that time space. DH usually gets home between 5 and 6 (although he usually goes on his computer straight away as well).

I need a game plan or something to entice me before I can attempt this. I hate eating meals in front of our separate screens but when it comes to a mealtime and I say "Hey, family dinner today!" and DS moans noooo, or DH says, oh, I had something planned, or oh, I'm not hungry. I'll have mine later. It just sort of shoots me down and the allure of having more alone/computer time wins out and then I feel horrible about it.

A big one I've shot myself in the foot with tonight as well is tiredness. I don't manage well when I feel sleepy, and I was doing so well before the holidays at going to bed at set times. So I need to do that again, in order to equip me for the afternoons. And to enable my going to bed to work, I need to plan my evenings properly - now before I go to bed, which I was supposed to do about 45 minutes ago, I have to plan or at least take a cursory look over the lesson I have to teach at 8am tomorrow, shower, because it's too cold to go out with wet hair in the morning, and get the kitchen into some kind of order if not clean it totally (I'm thinking if I get it in order I can clean it to fill the daytime tomorrow, maybe.)

So - sort sleep patterns out first, that's my step towards the tech challenge.

We are so with the zeitgeist on this thread. We pre-empted Chris Evans who was talking on radio 2 this am about using phones too much.
Jiggle it is disappointing when your plans are scuppered in that way, I hope you managed to retrieve a good day from the amended schedule.
Searching hope the new term goes well with your boys.

I don't get to spend much time on t'internet in the evenings, we have one iPad and DH is totally addicted to "clash of clans" and will hog the thing all night. (I'm only on now cos I nabbed it while he was setting up the big speakers to do surround sound for the girls while they watch a DVD to take their minds off the fact that a. It is back to school tomorrow b. the poor cat is very near the end and is going for her last -ever- trip to the vets tomorrow) he looked at me grumpily when he realised I'd nabbed the iPad and I promised he can have it back in a mo. I'll go and cuddle the cat.

more snow hope the breast feeding gets there! it is so much easier and all that expressing is a massive job. I did it for a few weeks with my youngest but after a bit realised she was going to be fine on formula and that what really mattered was my sanity. That was best maintained with trips to toddler groups and getting out regularly. I put in a few hours at the pump though, read the entire 'lord of the rings trilogy' while doing it in the weeks after the birth. I still get a let down reflex when I think about hairy footed hobbits.
Good luck with the counting and the getting out. At least the weather is still pretty good.
Probably TMI about the hobbits.
I'd better go. DH is twitching....

Snow I wondered about tongue tie too. To try to summarise a loooong bf story: mine had tt and I used shields to get them started because they just couldn't latch. Again, it took some persevering (and everyone told me that using shields was a dreadful plan because my supply wouldn't last which in my case was categorically untrue) but it got them both bf. Might be a better transition from the bottle at this stage too. You've probably tried already, sorry if so, thought I'd mention it though as it was what cracked it for us. Those targets sound great.

Letsgo I had a little lip wobble reading your post, thank you for that kind comment :) Thanks searching , too.

I've realised with this tech challenge that, while I don't use devices for any great length of time during the day, I often run a brief check, almost without thinking about it. Email, fb, this thread. I'm going to join in and try to cut out that compulsive checking because, while it doesn't feel like any time at all, I bet those minutes add up. And again, I agree that we lead by example.

Searching your posts sound so much more positive recently - it's brilliant that things seem to be settling down for you guys. I know just what you mean about bubbling temperaments!

Hi hic and welcome. I feel your frustration with having to ask repeatedly, it really does infuriate me. DS is getting better but sometimes, aaargh.

This has reminded me... does anyone else have a DC who, when they're feeling stubborn, reacts as badly to praise as to a telling off? Today, for example, I needed DS to finish getting dressed so we could go out. I had to chivvy him along but it wasn't too much of a drama. When he reappeared I cheered and told him well done for getting organised by himself. He punched me. Again, this happens less than it used to, but he does resist praise and rewards as behaviour incentives.

Oh LetsGo sorry about your cat :( It's the kindest thing but sometimes I think it isn't very kind for us! Give her some tuna or something.

Bertie she hasn't eaten for days.......

"I still get a let down reflex when I think about hairy footed hobbits. "
Fantastic

And a big yes to the comment about formula and sanity.

I've got a feeling that this is another topic that there'll be no judgement on here so feel free to talk it over if you need to, snow.

sorry, bad timing for a x post :(

(HOW long did it take me to write that post??)

Oh my goodness, please may I join?

I am a SAHM with three under five (DS age 4, DD1 age 2 and DD2 is 6 months). My DH works very long hours (never home before 11pm), we have no family here and we start renovating our flat on Monday (moving out this weekend!). Have been trying so hard not to shout and managed about 10 days straight but the last couple of days have gone totally off the rails. My biggest motivation is seeing how they are normalising the yelling - I shout at DS, he shouts at DD1....I make it seem like it's ok.

The Calmer parenting book is on my shelf. Time for another read, I think.

So yes to the technology challenge from me and will try to keep up with this thread.

Can I join?? I have 4 ds age 6, 5, 3 and 1 and a couple of weeks ago realised that I had become the shouty mummy I really didn't want to be. Largely as I felt that unless I shouted they ignored me. But I don't like this and want to change. Mostly it has improved but I do have to threaten (and carry out) removing precious evening iPad time for the older ones - it's the best "currency".
Great reading recommendations - will check them out.

Morning everyone. I've not had any chance to read the more recent posts, so apologies, but just feel like I have so much to get off my chest before I literally explode.

I had a truly awful day yesterday. It was my first day of maternity leave, DS1s first day at school, and DS2 was at nursery in the morning so I was able to go back home and get some much needed sleep (at 37wks pg I'm not getting a great deal of sleep).

In the afternoon, when both boys were back at home with me, I needed to go shopping but DS1 was desperate to see his grandparents to tell him about his first day at school. I agreed (hoping that I'd be able to leave them there while I popped to the supermarket alone). When we arrived at my parents house, they were out in the front garden. They live on a corner plot, and one side of their house is on a really busy road. There is no gate at the end of the drive and just a low 2 foot wall around the edge of the garden - easily low enough for my 3 and 4 yr olds to climb, so I HATE them being out the front as I'm constantly on edge. My parents have several really tall, thick bushes in their front garden, plus a caravan, so there are plenty of "hiding" places, making me even more paranoid. Almost straight away, both boys went running off to "hide" behind the bushes and my parents were very much like "oh don't worry, they do this all the time, they're fine" (up until I finished for maternity leave, my parents would collect the boys from nursery and keep them at their house until I got home from work). Ok, so up until now, there's never been an incident, and neither DS has ever climbed the wall or left the end of the drive. But if they ever did, there would be no second chances. The road is SO busy, there is no doubt that they would be killed. No second chances. Being 37weeks pg and barely able to walk fast, nevermind run, I was getting more and more anxious. DS2 went off into the house with my parents but DS1 just refused to stop running off from me, running around the various bushes where I couldn't see him. But the more I tried to calmly tell him how dangerous it was and how if he didn't stop, we'd be going home, the more he did it, and the angrier I got.

After what felt like forever but was probably just a moment or two, I finally caught up with him but was very tired, very angry and I handled him rougher than I should have. I pushed him towards the house, twice, and on the second push he tripped over his own foot and fell over. My parents were horrified and I felt like the worst mother in the world. My own embarrassment at how badly I'd handled it all in front of my parents, plus pregnancy hormones, caused me to burst into tears and I was a screaming banshee. :( My parents (especially my Dad) were less than pleased when I announced my third pregnancy as they told me that they thought I seemed stressed all the time and barely able to cope with just two. Come on! Who ISN'T stressed and tired with two children under 4? Yes, I have bad days, who doesn't? but often my stress is heightened because I'm at my parents house, and desperate to get home after a busy day at work.

After a moment or two, even though I was still crying (but no longer shouting), I apologised to DS1 and tried to explain why I got so angry ("mummy's worried that you'll get too excited and run out in front of a car", etc). He was crying his eyes out and was yelling back at me "you hurt my feelings!". Which of course, caused me to cry even more :(

We stayed for an hour or two and things were calm when we left, but even in the supermarket I was very snappy with DS1 so clearly hadn't learned anything. I always feel that when just one shouty outburst has occurred, it then sets the tone for the remainder of the day, and I seem incapable of turning things around.

I can't very well be yelling when I have a newborn baby in the house, and all the stress of shouting at the moment causes lots of movement in the baby and so the stress must be being passed on, which makes me feel terrible.

I just feel so lousy at the moment - the worst mum in the world.

How do I stop myself from shouting??? The 3 or 4 parenting books I've read have been brilliant and I agree with every word, but putting it into practice has been close to impossible this last couple of weeks. I'm hoping it's been so hard because I'm so heavily pregnant and that things WILL calm down. Please tell me they will!!

I didn't sleep a wink last night because I'd tainted DS1s first day ever at school. Will he always remember this day as the day that his mummy pushed him over and yelled at him? :(

MoreSnow I know that pain so very well. You've got a lot to contend with at the moment.

mandbaby I wanted to cry for you reading your post. I know others will have more constructive things to say but I needed to give you a massive cyber hug and tell you that, while I don't want to admit it, I could see myself reacting in a very similar way in that scenario. Fear, frustration, judgement, pregnancy hormones, end-of-day tiredness (and the prospect of the supermarket, in the evening, with two little ones, still to come) - all the triggers are there. I feel stressed just thinking about it.

For us, their first day at school is such an emotional, momentous milestone but... can you remember your first day at school? I have absolutely no recollection of mine at all. I don't know if that makes me weird or if it's just not quite as groundbreaking for them, I don't think he'll remember it as tainted.

and to you, I wish there was some way I could help x

And welcome crankypants and stealthtoddler

I think I might have let out a quiet 'ooooooh' when I read your numbers and ages! Come and join the madhouse!

mandbaby I was bricking it at the end of my twin pregnancy. dd was 17 months and a total handful. I was so exhausted I could barely cope. I thought it would only get worse which it did, in lots of ways but the end of pregnancy is just horrendous. The end of my twin pregnancy was utterly, utterly miserable. I was in too much pain to sleep. I had them at 37+6 and really was desperate for my section. It will be better when the next one is here. My parents make no secret of the fact they think me even talking of a fourth baby- which would give me 4 under 5, is lunacy.

with regards to the garden situation I can be too laissez faire I think. My 2 year old boys ride their bikes on the road outside our house with me supervising from a distance. They are good at getting in when a car comes (there's no pavement, we live on a single track part of a road in a village). A neighbour on our road asked me when I was on the way to the butcher with them "do you think it's safe for them to.ride on the road here then?" in a really uppity 'this is very unsafe, I'd never do this way' He actually said he doesn't let his 5 year old ride there. I felt like punching him. They're all crap walkers but all stop at roads mostly on their bikes but yes, I see your point that a 3 year old and two 2 year olds are not the most easy to keep safe on bikes. Only dd has pedals. I admit to The Fear sometimes that if I have got it all wrong on the busier road in the village that'd be it. No second chances. I think your fear would have been almost impossible to control there. My dh can't take the dc out on bikes by himself, he finds it's way too stressful so I can also see how hard it is when your parents think it's okay but you don't. I don't think he'll remember that. Do you remember my post about when my dd picked up her friend from.from . a statue at the river they were climbing in and dumped her on the floor and nd then I picked her up and put her down and need basically ended up dumping her on the floor? ! My dd has never mentioned it since maybe she's blocked it out but I still cringe over it. ugh. Have a huge unmumsnetty hug ((())) and it will be better once the baby is here I hope

mandbabe v quick cos should be back at work now but had to let you know I totally understand why you did what you did and know just how awful it is to be anxious about a road and "not listening think its a game' behaviour etc. being heavily pregnant I remember as being much worse physically than post birth. Thinking of you, you have a lot to deal with and you are doing well. Don't let anyone imply or tell you different (and that includes yourself!)

dreaming you know your kids better than your neighbour. Children don't learn about cars by always being driven inside one. As a cyclist I take mine out on roads my OH never would. Chapeau

snow one difference was I knew my youngest would never be able to feed from me, you are hoping to achieve that at some point. Hope things get better.
Now, back to work!

mandbabe - I really feel for you. I remember getting very stressed just thinking about going to the park/shops with my eldest two when pregnant with dC3. If they ran off in different directions, it was basically a case of pick your favourite because I wasn't going to catch them both. And you can't run so shouting/bribery/threats were the only way I could get them back.

They are very tough those last few weeks. It really is easier once baby comes.

Will you have any help in these few weeks? Even just an ad hoc babysitter to give you some time off?

I am obsessed with road safety and would have been so on edge in your situation too.

Your DS won't remember this at all. Really. And it honestly will get calmer and easier. I found the uncertainty of when the third baby was going to arrive stressful, I really did relax once she arrived and I knew she was safe and sound. Really hope it's the same for you.

Anothermonkey, thanks for the welcome! Am really happy, relieved and hopeful having found this thread!

mandbaby just to echo what everyone has said really, the end of pregnancy when you already have one or more older ones is so tough. I could so easily have been in the same position. I find parenting in front of my parents makes me really tense and thus handle things much less well. No advice really other than just to try and look after yourself as best you can. Try and plan your days to be as stress free as they can be bearing in mind your heavily pregnant and have two young children. And your DS definitely won't remember the incident it seems like he'd forgotton by the time you got to the supermarket!

Forgot I'm supposed to introduce myself. I have dd who is 4 and ds who is 18 months. Things are up and down at the moment. DD is lovely some of the time but still prone to sudden outbursts when she doesn't get her own way. Had a really nice meal out this evening with friends. We had the DC with us but still felt relaxing just doing something different. Really need to focus on doing more stuff like that; helps to recharge the batteries. Can't remember who had three things they wanted to work on? Maybe Anothermonkey? I also can't remember what they were but I know I definitely thought ooh me too so will have to go back and check.