slapping or no slapping?

[Vindaloo]

I am a single mum, DD is 2 and half years now. She's a live wire and just being a normal cheeky toddler really. I have found myself slapping her on her bottom or raising my voice when trying to dicipline her. I always assumed I would be a chilled out mum, but I suppose being a single parent with DDs father choosing to play no part in her life and family living far away doesnt help. I hate it and it really upsets me and I feel so guilty and crap about slapping/shouting. I think I have some anger management issues. Any advice on what I should do? where to go for help?

So now I'M a bully too? I'm not the one DEMANDING that people use a particular name. I'm not the one ACCUSING people of child-abuse

I'm happy to join Kittywits in her method of bringing up children. Sometimes parental control Has to be excerted. This is how we choose to do it.

I haven't ACCUSED anyone of child abuse.

And I didn't DEMAND that TheRealCam use a particular name. I just think it's underhanded to change your name in order to snipe at people. There's been quite a lot of it around here lately and I find it abhorrent.

Take a breath, clumsymum, and calm down. You're starting to sound a bit shrill.

Clumsymum, I didn't dictate anything - I just asked a question. Teenagers are not usually known for their obediance & unquestioning acceptance of parental requests.
I don't just use timeout at all. If you want you could read down the thread to the long list of suggestions I typed out for Vindaloo & Sleepysooz.
My DS and DD can both be very defiant. DS has been much harder to discipline than DD. I also believe it is my duty to ensure that my children know how to behave. I have dealt with outright defiance in all the ways I described in my emails. I have always found a solution that eventually worked, because hitting a child is not an option for me.

Well o.k. You like to snipe (as you are doing) in your own name. Thats your freedom.

as it's TheRealCam's to change her name if she likes.

Sorry you don't like how I sound. I don't think you sound all that great either.

(see, you've brought me down to your level now)

Adath Please cut and paste the post where I have said that. I am very interested .

Bugsy I gave you examples of how I had not insulted or criticised you. Would you like to respond to that?

Thank the heavens for you clumsymum. So true about giving a surly 15 year old time out. It's all very well 'reasoning' with a very young child and giving them nice coloured stickers, good old parenting experts eh?
I say again "supernanny has no children"
There are times when there is no room for endless discussions. They blooming well do what they are told because I say so. If they don't they get smacked.
I'm impressed there there seems to be so much time available for all these talking methods, time out etc. Frankly I haven't got the time to do that or the energy. I would rather spend my parenting time on other things. Let the discipline be quick, then we can move on. Of course that is my choice. Probably I need to say again (just in case). You all chose to spend your parenting time HOW you want on WHAT you want. Room on the broom and all that.

Clumsymum, don't get riled . For some people here there is just no room for thinking the way we do. No amount of explaining will make any difference. I have discovered that. They will think what they do no matter what you say. They can of course think how they chose, but don't expect to be afforded such a right, it won't happen. Stick to your guns I am.

Vindaloo I've been a single parent in a past life and it's much harder because you can't just hand over responsibility to a partner when you need a break.

Does your dd go to any form of childcare eg when you go to the gym?

Sorry haven't picked up whether you work or not?

Not really Kittywits, I'd like to see a discussion about non-violent methods of discipline!
I don't believe I ever suggested I would use time out with a 15 year old, but I certainly wouldn't want to be in a situation with someone who may well be bigger & stronger than me - of my last resort being hitting them.
I very much hope, and I realise there are no guarantees here, that by the time my children are teenagers we communicate well & that they continue to respect me. I hope that all the time & effort I have put in behaving by example & as they get older taking the time to explain to them, why some things are absolutely not acceptable under any circumstances, will have paid off.
I am under no illusions and realise that this may be wishful thinking - but that is what I am working towards.

Do I dare get involved in this?

Can't stay on long as I'm at work, so please don't bother abusing me or making childish comments as I won't be able to read them anyway. I just want to make a couple of points if that's OK:

The vast majority of people in this country smack their kids occasionally - there is a huge gulf between the occasional slap on the back of the leg and child abuse, so please let's all grow up and stop being so emotive. Child abuse extends far beyond the physical abuse as well.

What I have noticed though, is how Greensleeves and Bugsy are personalising everything. Why do they feel it neccessary to make abusive remarks to people, just because they have a different view? If you think you are examples of good parenting, I fail to see how. I'd much rather have a sharp slap on the leg than some of the abusive comments you have been throwing round at other Mumsnetters. Your behavious removes all credibility from your arguements in my view. And yes, I am entitled to one.

What you need to remmember is that the vast majority of parents across the globe do smack children. I have seen European friends really wallop their kids, hit them across the ears, lock them in dark cupboards. In the UK , the vast majority of parents do occasionally smack their kids, but thankfully there seems to be a much higher level of awareness about the potential damage it can do and most parents are very sparing in this sort of punishment - using it as a last resort rather than the norm. Which is what most "pros" are expressing on this site.

My Grandad was a police officer and if he saw a youngster misbehaving, he's pull them aside and give them a sharp clip on the ear. My Mum used to smack us occasionally and we knew we had really stepped over the line. Out Dad used to beat us when HE lost HIS temper (rarely, thankfully). And I mean beat us.

We all know the difference so please stop being so emotive.

thereal cam - is...... wait for it .... its a fucking knock out....CAM.

i am so clever.

i reckon its becuase some nutter posted under the pseudonym cam2 on another thread which out and out slagged a mumsnetter - for ...and wait for it heres the irony......being too controling.

hence why CAM. used the name The real cam

i suspect.

so i suspect its rather less testing to sort that out than say when i change my name to granniehadadruggiebaby.

there

now thats sorted

your all fucking loons

i get the no smacking argument - i mean i get it i understand why people have the views they do. i dont agree but i understand where they are coming from

to not shout at your child becuase the verbal abuse is damaging and its bullying ,. verbal force and the other shite is bollocks.

a child is not my equal a child is my charge. a child of mine will grow up to contribute to society and be a well rounded sociable person.

shall i tell you why.

it goes like this

i smack - but dont beat the shit out of - i dont smack often - infact its rare

i shout - often. my word is law. that is not to say anyone elses word is law - ofcourse no one elses word is law becuase my word is law so no one elses word can be law only mine.

unless you have a fucked up kid anyway the natural course of things will dictate that your child will push at bounderies and test your skills and knowledge as a person, human beig, parent etc. it is through this testing and other means of communication that your child comes to realise that you love him or her and although they think your a complete cow for not letting them go to town with their friends they understand that it is becuase you have their wefare in mind.

my word is law. this does not preclude communication skills full stop. we discuss anything from race to abortion from religeon to bullying to what shade of nailvarnish to why the word "gay" is NOT a derogatory term!!

but if i say you do not cross the road - you dont cross the fucking road
if i say you do not go to your friends house you donot go to your fucking friends house
i fi say you dont swear you dont fucking swear
if i say you hold your fork in your left hand.... you get the picture.

shoulding does not preclude other forms of communication.
shouting does not necessarily mean losing the plot and screaming maniacally.

in fact when i am very angry i almost whisper - so its not the shouting its the wayone communicates as a whole - not just around disciplinary issues but along the full spectrum

when my children were little and they fell and they cried i kissed it better washed it and put on magic cream.

when they were about to start school i kissed it better and told them i had bigger cuts on mi arse

when they told me someone thumped them - i told them to thump back.

when i was told by my eldest that he was havng sex i took him and gf to family planning clinic.

its not my job to be nice to them.

its my job to love them and make sure they grown up to be good people, contributing to society.

you can stick your hippy airy fairy shit up yer arse

when they hit 15 i will physically wet myself when you post that they speak to you disrespectfully, steal your money and got arrested.

the good thing - you will say is that you didn't shout

arse arse arse

Yes the OP was asking advice on other methods. I think it's just as valid to say "hey, don't feel bad about smacking" rather more helpful than suggesting she has "anger managment issues" sorry, but that's funny .
Ok. bugsy, I understand that contibutions are welcome on this thread as long as a certain group of people happen to agree with them, otherwise it's been very much a case of "smackers don't speak, you are wrong, we are right, you views are not welcome here"

Fatfox, I am both amazed & hurt as I've been on Mumsnet for 6 years and have never been accused of being abusive to a single poster. Please provide one example of me being rude or personal to anyone.
I apologised directly for suggesting that Kittywits suggestion that children who were not smacked are agreesive was rubbish.

Custy, I agree with you on so much - just not the smacking bit! Please don't wet yourself when my kids are 15 and horrible - you'll be sitting in soggy pants for years!!!!

Hello Fatfox, good to see you here. I like your points, so true, so true. Didn't want tosay so myself, couldn't be arsed with the fall out There is alot of giving of abuse on here, but it's a different story when it's handed back. hat's how children beahave me thinks.

Fatfox

Thank you for your calm, sane posting.

CustyX, I agree with what you say (not sure about how you say it tho'. Are you Gordon Ramsay in RL)?

"ifi say you dont swear you dont fucking swear"

[steps away from debate]

Custy, according to some on here you'll find that you are an abusive and damaged parent and person, your children are the enemies and you afford them no dignity. Perhaps you eat children as well, tasty

custyx i couldnt have put it any better......was scared to post till you did..lolxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Custy's much better looking than Gordon Ramsay

She did teach him how to swear though

according to who?

Btw Clumsymum fatfox, custy, realcam et al WHERE HAVE YOU BENN ALL MORNING???!! EH?

Going off now to the local park. I shall see if I can smack a few of the kids in front of someone.For the novelty value I couldalways try it on someones elses eh?

Custy - you'd have to look further down but Kitti's right, those things have been said about us monstors who beat our children.

I can't believe this is still going! Not going to get over involved in this debate as I don't have time but thought I'd lend my support to kitti and others who have been fighting our corner for the past few days.

I will smack when - DS decides to try and stick his fingers in the fire, runs across the road, and other 'very dangerous things'. I work on the theory that a small amount of controlled pain is better than hospitalization and in those situations there isn't time for reason or 'time out'.

I will also smack DS when - time out has failed repeatedly and he returns to scribbling all over the walls for the 3rd time, time out has failed to convince him that hitting his little brother is not on, etc. These are time when I will consider he has had ample warning that his behaviour should not continue but does anyway.

I am the adult, it's my house, my family, my rules, my word is law. DH agrees.

This system by the way is exactly the system my mum and dad used and DH's mum and dad used. I love and respect my parents,I think they brought me up really well. I am not 'damaged' by the fact the occasionally smacked, I actually believe I'm a better, more respectful person for it.

If you disagree with me and my views I don't mind, but whatever way you choose to discipline your children, make sure it works.

My DS is currently only 22 months, a few days ago I took him to a playground where he was trying to climb a 'baby' climbing frame. An 8/9 year old boy wanted to go on it too (instead of the one aimed at his age group) and got frustrated with DS. I wasn't worried because his parents were watching him- you can imagine how upset I was then to see this child look at his parents, then deliberately stand on my son's hand. His parents did nothing, though they'd seen everything. My child, when he is 8/9 I hoep won't do anything like that in the first place but believe me, if he does, he'll get a smack because he deserves it.

But my question/comment is really, how has our society degenerated so much that parents do not teach their children not to stand on a baby's hand and is it partly due to the over liberal wishy washy attitude of 'letting children make their own decision in what's right and wrong'?

Parp and arf!

I thought this thread was about another form of behaviour known as 'slapping'.

What an interresting thread....
It confused me more than anything to be honest. Because for me the issue is actually not slapping your child or not and I am not sure that it is the issue of the OP.
My problem is slapping or shouting outof anger because I think that THAT is abusive.
Someboddy mentioned that in other euopean countries slapping in ot an issue. And I agree. If you werre to go to France, people would really wonder why everyboddy is getting so upset around this issue. It is normal to see a child slapt in public for example because he tried to cross the street on his own.
Now, reading this very long thread, I have gathered taht you can :

• go to a management anger course
• go the see a cousellor
• counting to 10
• going to the gym. Ideas of my own : giving yourself some 'time out',avoiding situation that will lead to a tense situation (eg not staying in the house ln morning). Now, PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE, could you tell me and other posters here what you are doing when you are at your wits end and you know that sooner or later you will shout/slap ??? Like other people here I need HELP, not people telling me off to do something that I don't like doing or trying to convince that I shouldn't feel guilty because I do!!

Smacking is unacceptable and pointless. If you leave a mark, you could be prosecuted, it is illegal. I have 4 kids 0-12 and I can remember each time I have smacked them (maybe 3 times) and it was because I lost my temper and lost control of the situation - it was an emotional reaction on my part and that is unacceptable. I think it is even worse to do it as a controlled, deliberate punishment. The only way a child would learn anything would be if it was done immediately at the time of the wrongdoing and I still think there are better ways. As a society we have abolished corporal punishment, why is more acceptable to hit your own children in a family environment?