slapping or no slapping?

[Vindaloo]

I am a single mum, DD is 2 and half years now. She's a live wire and just being a normal cheeky toddler really. I have found myself slapping her on her bottom or raising my voice when trying to dicipline her. I always assumed I would be a chilled out mum, but I suppose being a single parent with DDs father choosing to play no part in her life and family living far away doesnt help. I hate it and it really upsets me and I feel so guilty and crap about slapping/shouting. I think I have some anger management issues. Any advice on what I should do? where to go for help?

Kittywits, you are happy to say that you are being bullied and picked on and yet on this thread you have accused me of being aggressive & abusing my son.

"What does shutting your child out of a room teach them, or actually putting them outside even when it's cold teach them? Time out? Now THAT's abusive in my book." KW 24 August, 2006 7:31:26 PM

How anyone can suggest a well wrapped up child being out in the garden for 3 mins (because he was 3 at the time) is abuse, I am not entirely sure. He was never out of my sight as the kitchen & family room beside it look onto the garden. Given that you made a very strong criticism of my parenting, please explain to me how that could be described as abuse?

Time out is well recognised as a useful way of calming down a situation. Nowadays my DS does his own time out. When he is finding a situation difficult to cope with or he is losing his temper, he will go & sit somewhere quiet and away from everyone else until he can re-engage again in a manner he knows is more acceptable to those around him.

HumphriesCorner, I think what is so difficult about this thread is that Vindaloo initially came on saying that she felt unhappy about slapping & shouting at her daughter and then some posters came on saying no, don't worry about it - its fine to smack your children.
Quite a few people on here have taken the time to explain different discipline techniques that Vindaloo could use but there is still an insistance by some posters that smacking is a useful discipline tool.
So, sadly rather than a good discussion about different non-violent parenting techniques, we are caught in a debate about smacking.

agreed, bugsy. I think anyone who comes on saying I have smacked my child and I am nothappy about it I think I have anger management issues but I am a single mum and under pressure does not need to be told that it is OK to smakc imho.
the OP says she is unhapy about it.
it goes against her instincts.
she sees it as an expression of anger.
lots of people gave lots of constructive help.
I don't think smacking is OK and the OP doesn't either

See that iw what I don;t get is the fact that smacking is brought in when they are not doing what they are told and questioning the parent.
Like harpsichordcarrier said how do you expect your child to have these skills as adults if they are never taught as children? I am sure you would be right in there in alter years if you felt your child was being picked on because they were not sticking up for themselves or questioning someone else. But I am afraid a lot of the blame would lie at your feet. Children learn by example and like someon else said by listening and respecting your childs reason for questioning you and reason for behaviour then you are giving them a whole set of skills that will bode well in adulthood. Now I am not saying that only people who smack do not teach these skills but I feel it is a failing in the adult rather than the child that the parent has no other means of dealing with the situation so smack to get there own way.

And yes Kitty I stand by what I said it is all very well to say that you respect others but the most violent abd aggressive tone has been coming from your corner because you seem unable to accept that others have a differing point of view than yourself maybe this discussion has touched a nerve i don't know.

I don't agree with the view that children and adults are different and so while an adult is able to slap a child, if you slapped a work colleague it would be a different matter.

Children need to be taught by their parents what the boundaries are and how to behave approporately. Ideally this will mean leading by example, praising good behaviour and being clear about what the consequences of bad behaviour will be. I'm in charge in my house - I'm the adult and so I have a lot of power over my children. They know that they are little, they depend on me to look after them, to keep them safe and feed them etc.

But I don't think this is dissimilar to adult life. Almost all of us have people in our lives who have some sort of power over us and (mostly) as a society we agree that this power should be exercised courteously.

I would be appalled if my boss decided to give me a slap because I had failed to write a report she had asked for several times. Or that a traffic warden, with whom I was arguing when my car was illegally parked, chastised me with a smack on the leg. Or that the bank manager would give me a hard tap on the hand for refusing to pay back my overdraft as agreed. In all those instances I would have been in the wrong. But their actions in response to my wrongdoing would not make me feel well disposed towards them or feel that, ultimately, they had my basic wellbeing and improvement at heart.

As adults we have (IMO reasonable)expectations of how those in power should behave towards us so why should children be so different?

welll said puddle.
by the way - to all those who say - I was smacked when i was a child and it didn't do me any harm.
well I was smacked when I was a child and I found it painful and humiliating.
someone (sophable?) once posted a link to a website where children shared their experiences of being smacked - I will look for it.

I was also smacked as a child - not often but I remember the times it happened vividly. I never saw much difference between my mum smacking me and my big sister hitting me. It felt, to me, like the bigger stonger person using their greater physical strength to get their own way.

My ds1 threw the book at one of my friends once, because she had just smacked her 4 year old (his friend), and he shouted "It is not nice to hit people, now say you are sorry please or you have to go home!"

she was gobsmacked.

Harpsichord please read my post again. I very, very clearly said that we have reasoned discussions about many issues in my household. I also, very very clearly said that as the parent I expect my instructions not to be questioned. The two are not mutually exclusive, this not an either or sitution. For some reason you are missing important parts of my posts. I am happy to explain, but it has already been written.

Adath, would you like me to cut and paste the numerous occasions where I have banged on about everyone having the right to parent as they see fit? Obviously I would much rather you read them for youself, but for some reason you are not
doing this.

I really cannot fathom why so many of you think that I or other smackers don't use a huge number of parenting techniques. We do, of course we do, smacking is one of them. Personally I hardly use it, I would rather we could all be happy and rub along all the time, but that's not real life and some times a smackis needed.
You know that my view is like lilymolly's and think that that society has got too soft generally and it has given rise to arrogant thugs with a " you can't touch me" attitude and they behave however they want because they know nothing's going to happen to them. A few more slaps as children would prevent this.
Strange that in a society where physical punishment is frowned upon that we have more disrespect to authority than ever. Please do explain how this works?
I'll say to you again Adath, you parent as you see fit, I don't care I really don't. Icare only when I am personally attacked and abused. Please afford me the same courtesy.

Kittywits, maybe we think you don't use other techniques, because you haven't alluded to any of them on here. Vindaloo wanted to know how to parent without recourse to yelling and smacking.
You were the first person to say that smacking was fine & then suggested that those of us who don't smack have aggressive, ill disciplined children.

Do you throw books when they are naughty then colditz?

Oh, THE book!

Sorry you feel that way bugsy, but this is what i DID say "I must say that in my experience of children, those that have never been disciplined with a smack are far more ill disciplined and therefore aggressive towrds other children than those who have."
and I said, " Bugsy these are my experiences of very ill disciplined children. I'm glad that your child is well behaved, however you discipline them.
I'm not attacking your parenting methods, I'll thankyou not to attack mine or call my opinions and experiences rubbish."

You would have to be on the look out for insults to take offence. I'm sorry you did. As I explained in this early post, there was none intended.

Stop being rude to me Greensleeves.

That's what you do to bullies, you tell them to stop.

Just out of interest Kittywits how do you know whether the chidren you know (the well-behaved and the not-so) have been smacked or not?

I really wouldn't have a clue about most of the children I know (with the exception of the children of very close friends of mine who I know share my views on discipline).

My point was/ is Kittywits is that you haven't really addressed the point in question & that is that the original poster is looking for other ways of disciplining her child because she doesn't like shouting & slapping. Those of us who don't smack have tried to offer advice on what she asked for, but you just keep justifying your opinion that smacking is fine.

So it's alright for your child to shout at adults then Colditz? I would regard that as very ill mannered if my child did that.

Many people have said that Kittywits shouldn't expect unquestioning obedience from her children. Well I expect it from ds when he is told not to run across the road. Similarly (now that he is nearly 7) when he is asked to clear up his toys. These are not issues for discussion, or negotiation. they are about a child learning that their job is to do as they are told. Sometimes ds is asked if he will do something. In that situation he is allowed to say no, or ask why he should do it. If he is told he must do it, then he must do it, and I am not open to debate it with him.

Now I have spent ages explaining why he must pick up his toys. I have praised him to the skies when he has picked them up. I have removed his toys temporarily because he wouldn't pick them up. I have given away nearly £100 worth of hotwheels stuff because he ignored warnings that if it was left out, it would go.
He knows now that if toys are not picked up, he may get a smack. Since the summer holidays began, toys get picked up by him before we go out, and before bedtime. The other day he picked them up without being asked, while I was putting on my makeup ready to go out (he god a very major praise and 20p pocket money for that, and was a very smiley boy). I have only had to smack once for not picking up toys.

So everything else didn't work. My new regime showed results. He isn't emotionally damaged, he isn't injured, he just knows that not doing anything he is asked has nasty consequences. And if that isn't a lesson for life, what is?

Why don't you post under your real name, TheRealCam?

Coward.

As regards smacking, where I live I'm the dangerous lunatic fringe because I don't smack.

I think there's me and Dannie.

oh Greensleeves, for heavens sake do grow up.

You sound like a 10 year old, and a spoilt one at that

And you sound like someone who enjoys controlling people by force - it's much easier to bully and intimidate a child, of course.

But Clumsymum, all he has learnt is that if he doesn't do something that you ask you'll hit him. Rightly enough that is a nasty consequence. So what are you going to do when he is 15 & won't do something you want him to?

Maybe Colditz's son was really shocked and upset by seeing an adult hit a child. Have your children never shouted when they are frightened? He wasn't even rude in what he shouted. I think you are trying to imply that Colditz's son is ill-mannered rather unfairly.

As if its any of your business, I've decided to change my name but its hardly unrecognisable is it?

What's it to you?

It seems to be being used by you as another opportunity to be rude to me.

Having been on here for more than 5 years no-one's ever felt the need to be rude to me before.

Get off my case.

Yes I have said unquestionable obedience is a dangerous thing as have others. I do not want my children to grow up thinking that anyone in any authorit MUST be obeyed even when they are in the worng.
I encourage my children to be able to question me and I have enough respect for them to listen to them and hear their point of view as I would another adult.
There are also things with regard to safety etc that I would not compromise on but is that not life all the way through.
THere are some things that you HAVE to do even as adults sometimes without question but there are others you can and should question.

Kitty like I said it is all very well saying that you have banged on about others peoples point of view and yuor acceptance of it but there is far more you have said that contradict it. The OP wanted ALTERNATIVES to smacking as she was not happy about doing it and felt it was her own issues causing it rather than her childs behaviour but so far all I have seen you "bang on" about is how smacking is fine and that those of us who choose not to discipline in this way are doing wroang. SO please at least if you are going to accept our point of view be consistent.

Well Bugsy, by 15 he will know what is expected of him, including clearing up his own mess.

When your child is 15 and won't do as you wish, will time-out work? Of course it won't if they are determined to go your own way.

And how do YOU deal with outright defiance, that doesn't respond to timeouts, sanctions, withdrawal of privileges etc. etc.? Maybe your children don't do that? Mine has the sort of personality that does. It is my right, no my DUTY, to teach him how to behave properly, and use what methods work FOR US.
I am not dictating to you that you must smack your children. Don't try to dictate to me that I must not.