Page 11 | slapping or no slapping?

Are your children’s vaccines up to date?

kittywits · 24/08/2006 23:00

fistfullof nappies

sleepysooz · 24/08/2006 23:08

Are there any positive helpers out there, to help people like myself and vindaloo, arguing on mn isn't helping, where are the tips!

fistfullofnappies · 24/08/2006 23:19

my only suggestion is, try to avoid confrontational situations where you need to punish, as much as possible.
You have to keep reminding yourself about what's really important (endangers your childs health, harasses the neighbours), and save any confrontations for that. Dont slip into punishing just because she doesnt do what you say.

sleepysooz · 24/08/2006 23:32

ffon - thank you for that more positive note, noted!

My dd twin1 2.10 has a habit of squeeling, my neighbours hate it and tell us, and ds twin2 has alot of screaming tantrums, they tell us they hate that aswell, (change my neighbours)?

NattyandThomas · 24/08/2006 23:44

ooo so much more on here than when i last posted.

vindaloo getting back to the original Q. i was a live wire and cheeky as a child, and my mum would loose her rag with me fairly often, dont feel quilty it happens. ergo to the smacking... if you feel the smacking works then try it, if you think the smacking is more for your benifit try counting to 10. sounds cheesy but it really works. also ive found having a set day a week that my friend takes ds out for an hour helps, cos you can relax and de stress from the week.

NattyandThomas · 24/08/2006 23:46

also kitty i love you the police comment cracked me up, thought it was great. some times u need a good smack

fistfullofnappies · 24/08/2006 23:56

god, sleepysooz, you have my sympathy there! My dc have a habit of thundering on the floor, our neighbours below hate it and tell us...I cant wait to get out of this flat, we're stuck here for a bit longer unfortunately.

kittywits · 25/08/2006 07:47

Thanks Natty and thanks Therealcam.
Why is it that those who accuse me of being exclusive are those who display zero tolerance?
I think it is simply because they do not like what I believe to be ok. It has nothing to do with the words I use. They come away with a "feeling" about what I have said when if the actually read my posts would see is just not so.

For some people it is acceptable to launch an attack on someone and then when that person defends themself they are acused of being the aggressor ! How does that work? I call that
hypocrisy.

It would be so good if other mumsnetters didn't give in to these sorts of sensless and mindless atacks. But I have seen it happen and it saddens me. There are bullies everywhere in life , even here.

Vindaloo and Angela, hope you've been able to glean something of use for yourselves amoungst all this .

nearlythree · 25/08/2006 08:24

kittywits, I hate rowing on mnet and find much of it pretty pointless, but some things are just so unacceptable. I can't get my head around smacking and love going together.

My kids question me (well, dd1 does) and they get an answer which they accept or they don't. If she has a good reason for thinking differently, I listen and if she has a point, we compromise. For example, she wouldn't go to the loo on her own this morning. It turned out she'd seen a spider in there yesterday. So instead of making her go on her own, I checked for spiders first. She's reassured and the whole thing passed off without fuss. She's also been refusing to have her light out at night. She's two yrs older than her sister and not tired. We've worked out a compromise where she goes to bed at the same time but gets half an hour reading. She feels respected and we get a calm household.

It's a big bad world out there. Adults try and harm our kids - even our education system teaches them that they are only valued by academic acheievment. I want them to question the values that society gives them. And I don't want them to be more prone to abuse because they have been used to doing whatever an adult tells them to.

And I wonder how many pro-smackers would tell their child's teacher that they smack? Or is it a secret?

harpsichordcarrier · 25/08/2006 08:34

kittywits, ime the children who are smacked by their parents are EITHER badly behaved rude aggressive and disrepectful OR are cowed and scared and ruled by fear.

is that empricial evidence in your view?

nearlythree · 25/08/2006 08:53

sleepysooz, it must be so worrying for your neighbours to be on your back like this. Dd1 used to squeal and dd2 tantrums and teh best thing I'vefound is to try and head it off if you can with distraction, and ignore if you can't. It will pass. It's normal toddler behaviour and your neighbours will have to accept that.

I agree that tv programmes shouldn't be followed slavishly, but they do provide a good starting pint and each one has something to offer. I like Supernanny's way of talking to children on their level. I learned how to teach dd1 to sleep on he rown using gradual withdrawl from watching Little Angels. I've had flagged up for me that I'm in danger of treating dd2 differently because of her illnesses (and could therefore cause problems) from watching THOTT. I don't like the way these programmes overuse time out but I do like the fact they start off with sad, unhappy kids (because that's what badly behaved kids are) and end up with happy ones. And both DR. Byron and Jo Frost have stated clearly on thei rprogrammes that smacking is counter-productive, and if you don't want to listen to Jo Frost it is worth bearing in mind that Tanya Byron is a clinical psychologist specialising in working with damaged children.

kittywits · 25/08/2006 09:32

Nearlythree, you seem to have got this picture of me that I an some sort of dictatorial thug who beats my children, never listens to them and never lets them speak!! .
When they have issues, which as a large group, as with any large group, they frequently do, we talk. We try the methods that any loving parent who cares deeply about their children tries. HOWEVER when I decide, as the parent, as the grown up that they need to do something then I expect it do be done without argument and without question, full stop.
If my 2 year old was scared of a spider in the toilet do you think would force her to go there anyway?
I am experienced enough parent and know my children well enough to know when to demand unquestioning obedience and when to find out what a problem is. I don't think that it is ok for a children to question their parents, no not atall. That is not the same as teaching them to never question. Parents should be in charge, they are adults. I personally really don't like this idea that we're all equals. No, they are children.
I love them, but they are still children at the end of the day and should do what they are told. In my opinion people nowadays are very confused about what constitutes loving your child. There are some parents at my DDs1's school who are so scared of telling off the children that the kids do whatever they like and are a consequent nightmare to be around. I disagree with you, smacking and love go together.

When I walk along the school run with all of mine other parents comment on how nicely they wallk, how they don't run off, including the 2 yr old, they are not silly and "come to heal" for want of a better phrase. But of cousre they must do these things!! If they did not there is no way I could safely take them out on my own.

I'll say again.I have no truck with how other people parent their children. I am more than happy to have a reasoned discussion with anyone about our differences. It's interesting.

I really think that people have become obsessed with 'doing the right thing' though. There is no right thing, only alot of so called parenting experts. In a few years time the fashion will have changed and something else will be 'right'. Did you know that "supernanny" has no children of her own? Personally I think it's hysterical that mothers will take parenting tips from somone with no child4n of their own Crazyworld.

Sorry, bit of long one, are you still awake?!

harpsichordcarrier · 25/08/2006 09:47

kittywits, at what age will it be Ok for your children to question you or argue back? at what agewill you not expect unquestionaong obedience?
and at what age will they be too big for you to hit them if they don't give you unquestionaing obedience?

kittywits · 25/08/2006 09:53

I would say when they are young adults. Did you read my previos post, I have already explained myself there.

goldendelicious · 25/08/2006 09:56

OMG its still going......

lilymolly · 25/08/2006 10:09

My god is this argument still raging- I am pro smacking ONLY if every other reasoning/technique has NOT worked, think this maybe what kitty is saying tbh, I am not a violent nor angry person and love dd VERY much, but imo I think society is the way it is because there is no consequence to anyones behaviour and britain is too softly softly. I am 30 and I remember kids getting the cane when I was at primary school and we ALL respected teachers and policemen etc, but it is so different today cos there is not punishment for anyone who disrespects others. I on a number of occaisons would have given some thugs a clip around the ear quite gladly for spitting and swearing in front of my dd! DH thinks I a asking for trouble, but I can not walk by and say nothing, I have to stand up for what I beleive in.

kittywits · 25/08/2006 10:22

Lillymolly, it's not an argument, I don't think, just an exchange of views! I agree with what you said btw

SSSandy · 25/08/2006 10:31

Luckily I've never seen anyone hit their child in public. I'm wondering what I would do if I did, seeing how strongly I'm opposed to it. If I had dd with me, I don't think I could not intervene since she knows my stance on it and how unacceptable I find it.

bloss · 25/08/2006 10:34

Message withdrawn

SSSandy · 25/08/2006 10:38

I would definitely not let it pass bloss and I have no fear of what that person might say to me. I'm not easily cowed these days. Dd would respect that I stand up for what is right. That's obvious. She'd be outraged if she saw a child hit too. I think hitting per se is false but I would feel tempted to slap that parent VERY hard in the face. Wouldn't do it of course but reading this thread has made me realise that I would WANT to do it.

bloss · 25/08/2006 10:42

Message withdrawn

Saturn74 · 25/08/2006 10:43

Just a reminder of the OP from Vindaloo.

I am a single mum, DD is 2 and half years now. She's a live wire and just being a normal cheeky toddler really. I have found myself slapping her on her bottom or raising my voice when trying to dicipline her. I always assumed I would be a chilled out mum, but I suppose being a single parent with DDs father choosing to play no part in her life and family living far away doesnt help. I hate it and it really upsets me and I feel so guilty and crap about slapping/shouting. I think I have some anger management issues. Any advice on what I should do? where to go for help?

bloss · 25/08/2006 10:44

Message withdrawn

lrwg · 25/08/2006 10:46

Well said HumphreyCushion!

harpsichordcarrier · 25/08/2006 10:48

kittywits, I wonder about this - if you haven't allowed your children to question you or tried to reason with them until they are young adults, how do you think they will learn to think for themsleves and reason?

SSSandy we were at a friend house the other day and dd1 and her friend (both bright 3 year olds). They were standing on something in the garden when my friend's husband told them to get down. the little boy why and the father replied if you don't I am going to smack your bottom hard.
dd1 looked really worried and said you shouldn't smack people.
she was very upset by the whole incident and kept saying to me for the next few days - you shouldn't sdmack people should you mummy? why does [X's] daddy smack him mummy? (she has witnessed the little boy being smacked, a little while ago, an has never forgotten it)
and the next time she saw him she was scared of him, and very upset, which is a shame.
the little boy is aggressive and defiant but scared of his dad.
I was tempted to say something but what? really? I can tell my friend isn't happy about it either really, but her husband does lots of the childcare and she just keeps saying well it works doesn't it? when we are out together he keeps calling the little boy to heel like a dog or something.
raising children isn't obedience training. and I don't know how happy I am for my dd1 to be upset by that kind of incident.