Does anyone else want to come and be a better parent with me?

[AnotherMonkey]

I've just deleted my original post in an attempt to be more positive.

I'm very low tonight, both of mine (4.5 and nearly 2) are pushing me so far beyond my limits at the moment.

So instead of posting my rant of misery, I wondered if anyone felt like joining me in choosing one thing to be less crap at at time?

Tomorrow, I am going to begin by taking it all less seriously. I'm going to try really really hard not to shout at all (this is difficult because DS is deaf at the moment and often does things which are not safe or bloody annoying but I'm going to find ways around it if I can). Essentially I'm going to try to take a step back and instead of letting poor behaviour bring me down, I'm going to try to isolate problems so that they can be dealt with. I might even make a list. I like lists.

(This evening was so bad I never want to see my neighbours again. I'm quiet, smart and even tempered in real life. Tonight our house must have sounded like a war zone. Or the screaming toddler equivalent. It's shit and it has to change).

Yes, thank you, he seems to be feeling better. Unfortunately he developed a rash around his mouth so I had to take him to the doctor today. Scarlet fever apparently so he's now on antibiotics and cream for the spots. Thankfully although the medicine is vile he actually seems willing to co-operate with taking it when offered something sweet immediately afterwards to take away the taste.

However, his behaviour has reverted to 6-months-ago-DS. Which is fun. And actually astounding to see what the difference is. Will be interesting to see if I deal with it better having had all of this experience now of dealing with him better in general (today - no. Lots of shouting and even some pushing which I haven't done in ages and felt mega guilty about :( )

Monkey, did she mean keen as mustard perhaps?

Monkey - 2! With an afternoon like that - that's amazing! Hope you took a moment to do a little happy dance :)
I saw the therapist for my follow up today. I was feeling pretty good having not cried and having come out with a few good bits of advice. Then I got home, Sofia the first finished and it all went to hell. Having talked to the therapist about how I was not really relating to the explosive child book any more because the examples are so extreme, my son starts to embody one of these extreme explosive children ("I WANT TO MAKE A DEN NOW!!") at bedtime and hitting mummy again... I had to leave the apartment. What the hell is going on with him - I just don't get it? I don't know if I can count today or if I should go back to 0. I raised my voice at him after he wouldn't stop. And then the two of them didn't go to sleep until well after 9pm.
I don't know how to get him to stop the hitting thing. The therapist said my husband should step in and be firm with him. But when he gets like that there is nothing that makes him stop. If you are firm with him and he still continues - then what? I am not taking away rewards at the moment because we are trying to let him see that he can build them up. What do I do? I said he had to go straight to bed but he just ran off. I can't make him go to bed anymore - he won't stay there and it just riles up the little one if it continues so I am really stuck. Does the hand in hand "vigorous snuggle" thing really work with a child that age? I haven't tried it because it feels like i'm making light of what he is doing. But it also feels like every day he loses a little more respect for me. Maybe I will try it tomorrow - not much to lose I suppose.

Oh (((Nellie))) that sounds awful. It is so hard to know what to do sometimes. DC always seem to throw us a curveball out of nowhere. No book or website can fully prep us alas. And for me I find it hard to remember what I've read and thought about in the moment I need it!

If only we could freeze frame, get a breather and have a think, then go back to the action!

DS still seems happy enough but fairly manic with it this afternoon, bouncing around like a lunatic making loud shrieking noises. Is it just him being 3 or him being a bit hyper... He's not settling well at nursery and I'm expecting they'll take me aside at some point soon and have a chat about assessment. Not that they necessarily will. Just me trying to make sense of DS really. And worrying a bit.

Bertie - maybe!

Nellie, a huge hug from me too. Are the boys sharing a room? Would it be worth moving one of them into your room for bedtimes? I have no idea if this would help or make any difference. There have been a few occasions when we've let DS fall asleep in our bed then moved him back to his when he fell asleep, but he sleeps like a log. DD wakes at a pin drop and doesn't settle well unless in her cot, so it wouldn't be a solution for her.

Dishes, a freeze frame would be so cool. Yy to the physical and shrieking stuff - that was one of the things which made me worry about DS. We're seeing less of that recently, I don't know whether that's to do with his hearing or whether it's just something they go through (it's not always related to big noises and he still does it sometimes). I have no idea.

So our new theme from DS is Imaginative Ways To Avoid Doing What You Should Be Doing. To include newly acquired selective hearing and protest behaviour (like throwing stuff or full on tantrum) if it is clear that he actually is going to need to comply. Or breakfast boycott, this morning.

DD is super grumbly and it reminded me of foot this morning - she cried because she woke up and because she wanted to walk downstairs and because she didn't want her sleeping bag taken off and because she wanted to walk downstairs BY HERSELF anyway and because she wanted to stand on a big chair to eat and because I left her side to get some juice and because she wanted her blanket and because she wanted DS's breakfast too and because she didn't want to get dressed and so it went on. Aaaaaaaaaaarrrrrggggggggghhhhhhhhhhh.

Good stuff: DD is so cuddly and gives the cutest kisses at the moment (apart from the snot), she makes my heart melt. She's learning new words all the time and her and DS are starting to have little conversations now which is adorable. DS is still doing better with the physical kindness and they've hugged more than they've tussled during he last few days. His sense of humour is developing too, he's really growing up in lots of ways.

Oh and DD is still at the age where she'll just gaze into your eyes. I'm going to miss that, it's amazing.

Can I join you please?
It is a case of can't shout, won't shout at the moment. I have had a coldy-sinusey thing for a fortnight now and my voice is croaky. It has made me think about how much I feel the need to shout.
I have DD 13, DS1 9, DS2 3.3 and DS3 23 months.

I asked DS2 not to scream this morning, if he can't do/ have something he defaults to screaming with rage quickly. He wanted me to open the stair gate and I said "one minute I am washing my hands" so he screamed I said "we don't scream we use words" he said "I will scream and you will do it"
I was [shocked] and didn't really know how to respond.

I always feel really bad when I shout. DD always says "Mummy, don't shout" and I feel really bad as I am forever asking her to be quiet! My excuse is that my dad was deaf when I was a child, so I have a loud voice anyway. But I don't want DD to have me as an example, as she has this really sweet little voice at the moment.

I find with four it is just so loud generally that I need to be loud to be heard. I get sick of my own shouting though and as you say Scout it makes me feel bad.

Hi notso, welcome :)

All fine this evening, that makes 3. Think that's a record (not sure whether or is most suitable)

Thank you and for the record.
I have had a look at orange rhino this afternoon. Feeling positive.

Well done, Monkey. I am really happy for you that you are conquering each day. You will make it to 5 and beyond.
Hi everyone else - I hope you have all had a good day too.

Right now I am trying to work out in my head how to make the most of what's left of the evening after one of the most dreadful bedtimes. I am trying to focus on the positives but I cant think or many. My son has absolutely no respect for me any more and with the no shouting thing i dont know what to do because i have no way to punish him when a) he doesn't care and b) I'm supposed to be helping him to work through his issues and understand how to handle them. It feels like instead I am creating more issues because he is now getting into this pattern of behaviour and it's becoming the norm. I tried the tickling thing when he was getting aggressive. It sort of worked but did not stop the silliness levels which then become a trigger for aggression again. Does anyone have any tips on how to instill respect again? This bedtime thing has just become the biggest game for both of them to play and I don't know how we change that.
The one positive today is that we got DS1 a preschool place to start on 31st March

Hi Nellie do you want to chat through what's happening at bedtime at the moment? Rambling through stuff on here really helps me to think of fresh strategies for my two.
If you do, what is your bedtime routine for the boys at the moment? At which point do things start to feel like they're not going to plan any more? Is anything different from the routine you used to have in the UK? Is DH involved or is this your 'job' at the moment?

That's great news about the preschool, once he's settled in and has some new friends his own age, I think it will make a difference.

All good here this morning. The quieter voice trick really worked - I'm on my phone again and can't find who said loud noises were inflammatory, but thanks! I was a step ahead of them this time at the breakfast boycott too, mwahaha

I was a wreck today really. DS was visibly anxious and withdrawn when we said it was a nursery day.

He cried miserably when I went to leave him, more so than he has for weeks. In my mind was the head teacher's chat last time about how he wasn't settling well. It had been unexpected as when I'd arrived that day he'd seemed quite happy, and prior feedback was inch by inch encouraging. So anyway based on that chat I expected his session today to be awful, seeing his reaction at the beginning.

Kills me to think he's spent hours crying. I don't think a bit of crying is a bad thing, but distressed for hours is another thing entirely. I reminded them that they could phone me if things weren't improving.

Leaving him I had a massive cry in the car on the way home, kept my phone close expecting them to call. And the phone DID ring, during my couselling session which I was both dreading and longing for. But they were just calling to say he was having a lovely time! God the relief.

And when the counsellor was serious but supportive about my losing my rag it was very reassuring. I have had so much shame and regret about being angry at any time around him that part of me felt I deserved to be in prison. She brought me back to reality, thankfully, and suggested some anger management ideas for both me and DS.

Getting objective perspective from a professional really helped. And a bit of hope for DS and his progress/happiness was just what I needed.

It is having hope that is so important I think.

Don't know about the respect thing Nellie but for us it's been the connection stuff that has worked best. Depending on the day!

Someone a while back suggested 'time in' instead of time out (which never worked well for us). Nowadays when I remember (and aren't exhausted or going insane with my own emotional dramas and stress) I try to defuse escalating irritating behaviour by offering to read a book with DS or some other activity that he enjoys. I need to remember to do this a lot more as it does make a difference. Seems to top him up a bit and calm him down. Not always!

Some days it seems like nothing works and it drives me mental when DS time and time again won't listen to me or do what I say. But days when we connect better he seems to WANT to do what I say more.

This goes against the grain of my upbringing which tells me 'do what you're told!' It was fear that got me obeying as a kid though, not as much respect.

Can fear ever engender respect? I don't think so. Nor can we demand to be respected. If we model respect and respect our children, whilst being fair, firm and compassionate then our children will learn to resppect us.

that does mean keeping our own shouting to an absolute minimum, to control our temper and parrent with a positive attitude.
No one likes being a shouty Mum always telling kids off.
Finding ways of communicating with our children in a positive way when they get it right is 10 times more effective in the long run than constantly snarling and telling off.

(((((Dishes)))))) there is nothing worse than leaving them when they seem distressed :( It's interesting isn't it - that pull between the shame of losing your rag and the inner belief that they really should just do what they're told. Me and DH both come from quite traditional, strict families and I know we both struggle with this one. I'm so glad that the day turned out to be more positive in the end x

I've come back on to ramble about the breakfast boycott as for us, mealtimes are one of our difficult times and I think I will come back to this. Even at what I loosely consider to be a good mealtime, DS will be up and down, he really struggles to sit for the duration of a meal.

It starts with my :( morning last weds, when DS was smashing the bowl so hard with his spoon I thought it was going to break. DD copies. Next day, they are told that banging means a spoon swap (to a baby plastic spoon). Sorted. Next day, that became a bit of a game, but fine - if they want to tap plastic spoons on plastic bowls they can knock themselves out. Tues eve DS hikes it up a level, messing around (food on his finger, DD copies, swinging it around, then flicking it across the table, banging his spoon, basically anything he can think of which DD can copy). I move him into the kitchen to eat by himself. That was basically teatime over. Yesterday morning, purposeful banging, spoon swap, full on meltdown including spoon thrown across the room, I WANT MY GLAAASS SPOOOOON (they're not glass, just so you know :) ). In the end, against my better judgement, I tell him if he picks up his spoon and clears up his mess, he can have his spoon back to eat his breakfast, as otherwise he won't get to eat until lunch.

This morning, at the very first sign of tapping, I use my new quiet voice to tell them very seriously of a special warning. Anyone who chooses to swap their spoon will not. be getting. their grown up spoon. back. DS actually said 'ooh' it was the most peaceful meal yet.

I want to read this back when it all goes crazy again.

X post with atthestroke, but I think there's a lot of truth in that.

Morning! Dishes, so hard to leave them upset but it sounds like good support from the counsellor.

Yes, DH and I both struggle with the balance between traditional upbringing and a rational understanding that positive parenting should be the way to go. I'm not sure he's quite as sold on it as I am though.

Have got to 4 mornings with no meltdowns (from me OR the kids ) before school. :)

Don't have much time to write as need to get ready for work. I think maybe I used the wrong term when I spoke of respect. I have spent the last 8 days making a conscious effort not to yell or demand but to reason and try to get DS1 to work with me on a solution. Although this seem to be working the first few days, he seems to have got more "naughty" for want of a better word and plays up more at the times when we really have no leeway to do anything - bedtime. He starts to play up sometimes as soon as I'm back from work but mostly when he knows we are about to say it is bedtime and that is even after warning countdown so it is not a suprise to him. Last night, after we calmed the little one down from a total meltdown, DH was reading to DS 1 so we joined and everyone sat calmly listening to 2 or 3 stories. As we're getting to the end of the 3rd, DS1 says I don't want it to be bedtime and starts jumping on the bed and trying to climb in my back. This gets little one upset. We both tried to stay calmnand say no it's bedtime but DS1 keeps getting out of bed and running out of the door to which I notice DS2, who is exhausted from his tantrum and lying in bed, starting to laugh because he thinks it's hilarious what DS1 is doing. Had to take DS1 to my room again for about half an hour to have him calm down. Them not sharing is not really an option because of my schedule for work in the mornings.

Ahh DD just had such a temper tantrum she made herself sick and I certainly wasn't the calm parent I should have been. DH did his usual "helpful" interference which involved coming to give me a parental lecture about how I shouldn't shout whilst I am holding a throwing up DD (I certainly was not shouting whilst she was throwing up). I pointed out that perhaps there were more useful things he could be doing than lecturing me and he said "like what" - well there's a load of sick that needs clearing up! He works from home and although I stay out of the house a lot if DD has a specially bad tantrum or I shout too much he comes out to give me a lecture - funnily enough I hate it (and him for doing so).

He doesn't do cooperative parenting. If he is with them and I try to help I get told off for interfering and if I am with them he will leave me to it unless it kicks off, when he will come and essentially tell me off in front of the kids. Funnily enough this means that if we are altogether DS (5) will sometimes play us off against each other. Major trouble is DH thinks he is perfect in nearly everyway so there is no way of "discussing" anything. (Yes we have quite a shite marriage)

I am not sure I could have done much to prevent the tantrum as it occurred in the car on the way home - her dummy wasn't "right" and needed wiping but even after wiping was still "wrong" - I think she has chewed a small hole in it and this was the problem. Not a lot I could do on the way home, but she got more and more hysterical. I tried to ignore and concentrate on driving but it was making me mad. She continued in the house - wouldn't accept another dummy etc so I was taking her up to her cot to put her in to calm down (probably should nt use the cot - I don't usually but I wasn't thinking v straight) and she started to throw up. Of course DH knows none of the background to this but .....! (Sorry epic post - had to let it out somewhere)

I know it's hard but keeping calm and not shouting yourself is 90% of the battle.

Nellie, would a phased bedtime help? It's basically what you're doing now anyway.

Pyjamas, teeth done together, then DS1 gets some grown up time (doing anything which keeps him calm, tv or film maybe). Ideally cuddled up with one of you while the other takes DS2 to bed, reads him stories and gets him settled. DS1 can then go in a bit later for cuddles, story and chat by himself. Story and chat could be done in your room if it would disturb DS2 then a cuddly transfer to his bed!

Been thinking about you today. I'll be back later to read other posts x

Nellie - could it be that the naughtiness is looking for the attention he used to get from yelling?

DS2 was being a bit whiny around bedtime and I wanted to be empathetic with him, but then he said "bu-uut!" in such a tone that I nearly lost it!

BlueEyeshadow, that's brilliant news :) congratulations

4 days here too, I'm chuffed. Another good day here.

Jigglebum (your name made me smile again :) simple things...) that sounds like a compete nightmare. It's really not the time to criticise parenting tactics, is it.