Does anyone else want to come and be a better parent with me?

[AnotherMonkey]

I've just deleted my original post in an attempt to be more positive.

I'm very low tonight, both of mine (4.5 and nearly 2) are pushing me so far beyond my limits at the moment.

So instead of posting my rant of misery, I wondered if anyone felt like joining me in choosing one thing to be less crap at at time?

Tomorrow, I am going to begin by taking it all less seriously. I'm going to try really really hard not to shout at all (this is difficult because DS is deaf at the moment and often does things which are not safe or bloody annoying but I'm going to find ways around it if I can). Essentially I'm going to try to take a step back and instead of letting poor behaviour bring me down, I'm going to try to isolate problems so that they can be dealt with. I might even make a list. I like lists.

(This evening was so bad I never want to see my neighbours again. I'm quiet, smart and even tempered in real life. Tonight our house must have sounded like a war zone. Or the screaming toddler equivalent. It's shit and it has to change).

Forgot I also wanted to mention the fear of failing at unconditional parenting and the feeling that maybe the whole gentle parenting thing hasn't gone to plan that was talked about upthread. I love UP but i think the downside for me is that it does pile a huge amount of pressure on. I think in someways gentle parenting techniques can be guilty of over-selling themselves as 'if you do it just right your children will be totally happy and you will never have any problems'. That's an exaggeration obviously but I think there is an element of that.

I had a bit of counselling last year (mild pnd) and did some reading which is my answer to everything and I realised that I am actually a perfectionist. I'd always thought of perfectionism as being about doing things really well but I realised its actually about imagining if you do everything perfectly you will avoid anything negative. So I have impossibly high standards with parenting which I inevitably can't meet and then when the kids are difficult or challenging I see it as my fault because I've failed in some aspect of my parenting. I have eased up on myself a bit but its hard. Somedays its like I have this critical voice in my head just listing the ways that i'm horribly scarring the DC for life by yelling or whatever.

Hi bunly . Your last paragraph struck a chord with me, I am very much like that. The bit about perfectionism rang very true.

I haven't finished the buttons book, as is the case with most of my parenting books, but even so I found it quite enlightening and I now challenge a lot of my negative reactions based on this. It's definitely been useful.

A quick post from me to say I've just been reading the recent posts and chuckling, you are all brilliant (and sometimes really funny) with the lovely way you talk about your kids and your lives.
I'm off on holiday tomorrow so out of posting reach for a while. Full on two parent parenting for a fortnight....let the misunderstandings and bickering commence...
Hope the lovely weather continues and the back garden dens are put to good use. happy holidays!

Yep, I read an article on Aha Parenting the other day which was quite guilt inducing where the author smugly claims that she has never ever punished her children because she didn't need to because she created such a wonderful environment of trust in the first place. Argh!! I know she's probably not trying to be smug but I am so, so hugely jealous of anyone that this comes naturally to and just works for them. Just to serve me right (and prove the article right that I've broken my child with all of my heinous punishments ) my five year old decided to draw with pens on his bed and carpet the other day. Why??? I mean, I did the whole gentle parenting route with the pen drawing the first time. I could trust him absolutely with pens when he was two

OK, I'm joking. I know five year olds have their moments of utter WTFness. But it's just stuff like she posts in the article "Oh, don't worry, my children aren't perfect!" and then mentions ONE incident for each of them. Presumably a three year old tantrum and a six year old hitting another kid (once) are the worst things her children have ever done! I suppose I just find it hard to believe that repeated bad behaviour is always to do with a lack of connection or bad feelings. Of course it can be caused by those things but not exclusively. Some kids hit out (for example) because it works. Or they get into a cycle of handling anger or something badly and you can't always help them out of it. Or sometimes your OWN personality gets in the way (hello!!)

Sigh. I like Aha parenting and mostly find it quite rational and helpful, and perhaps there is truth that if it's the only thing you ever do it works perfectly but it does make me feel hopeless, because apparently I'm not very good at always doing it.

Hmm interesting about perfectionism.

Bertie, I could have written your last post! (well one before the last)

I am with you, and I think a lot of it is down to temperament, I have a friend who looks like the perfect mother, always calm and in control, perfectly behaved children (who are now 13 and 17), she only needs to raise her voice a tiny fraction to get them to stop whatever they're doing that is wrong.
I didn't know her kids asa toddlers, the youngest was 5 when I met them, but she was still very good and compliant, while mine (same age), was hardly ever! I think because she is a very calm adn relaxed person, she has clam and relaxed kids, while my kids tend to have outbursts of anger just as I did as a kid.

But I agree, it can be quite depressing, when the bad behaviour continues despite your best efforts!

as an ex when dd1 was a toddler/young child I used to ahve a real problem leaving someone's house that we were visiting. I would do the usual countdown, try distraction, sympathise (I know you're sad but we must go etc), BUT she still kicked up big time and I always ended up having to wrestle her in the pushchair and leave in embarassment and tears.

Sometimes I wouldn't bother going through all the above options and just go straight to wrestling as I knew it was a waste of time and energy.

In terms of comparing yourself with others... I'm sure some people do have chilled kids but to give a different perspective... Since DD I have felt utterly overwhelmed for much of the time. I had PND and generally have found many aspects of DS's personality transplant and parenting generally, really really tough. I'm pretty sure that at least some of this madness must have been apparent to my friends and I certainly haven't tried to keep it a secret. They seem to have the impression that I'm really chilled and calm in the way I handle stuff. Things aren't always as calm in other people's lives as they appear!

And anyone who suggests that their own kids are perfectly behaved should be disregarded immediately

I also believe that there is no one, single way of dealing with any human to achieve perfect behaviour. And I'm so not perfect either. All we can do is keep learning, keep assessing what works, and keep showing our kids we love them more than ever. That's the part of the aha philosophy I agree with - set clear limits but in a respectful and loving way.

In terms of the WTF stuff, MIL uses the analogy of a builder pushing a boundary wall to check that it won't crumble. He doesn't want it to fall, he's pretty sure it's strong, but he needs to check.

Feeling philosophical today

Letsgo I hope you have a wonderful holiday!

I can utterly relate to the perfectionist thing - that was the main chapter that rang true for me in "when kids push your buttons". Being in control and everything being organised & orderly is the norm in every aspect of my life, but kids just don't comply do they! ;)

I know what you mean about the Aha! author coming across as smug. It almost feels like anything less than she's achieved is a failure or wrong doing. But I had another heart-melting 1-2-1 with DS1 again tonight. I just came out and asked him why he was naughty for daddy and not for mummy. His reply? "Because Daddy shouts even when I've done nothing wrong and it makes me want to be bad". Is that thought provoking or what?!

When we were swimming yesterday, I noticed two parents sat in the shallow end of the pool with their little boy who was about 2, and a newborn baby. The parents both looked utterly calm, in control and as though they've never raised their voice or their hand to anyone in their life. And their children? Both completely calm (even the newborn, despite being in FREEZING cold water), and the 2yo was calm, compliant and didn't look like he had a tantrum in him. Then on the opposite side of the spectrum, there are kids going crazy: shouting, being defiant, and ignoring the rants of their fish-wife looking mothers. I know it seems a bit of a generalisation, but I'm starting to see it everywhere I go. Calm parents with calm children. Wired parents with wired children.

If I've learned anything this last couple of months, it's surely that behaviour breeds behaviour. I HAVE to be a calmer parent for the sake of my children because I can't ever see (D)H becoming drastically calmer and I have to try and implement some sort of balance in our household. Whilst I am definitely NOT perfect, and have raised my voice on more than one occasion this week, I'm just going to keep in mind that nobody IS perfect, and all I can do is take one day at a time. I think we're all way better parents than we were six months ago, right? At least we identify that things are improving/need improvement and are working towards it. That deserves a massive or slab of

Hello. I've been lurking on mumsnet for a while and have just found your amazing thread ladies. I'm going to trawl back through the messages and see how I can work on my parenting skills. When rational and calm they are fine but under pressure I turn ranty banshee and then just feel so guilty. The previous comments about perfectionism are just me to a tee and I'm finding it hard to fix the perfectionism issue. So I'll probably just keep lurking for now but wanted to let you know I was here!! Thank so much for the ray of hope. :-)

Hi cake! I'm not sure I have improved that much in six months... I tend to take a few steps forward and the same number of steps back. Ergk. But that's just my entire life in a nutshell. I'm trying to worry about it less and just take each day as it comes. We had a nice day today despite horrible bits, overall good I think :)

That aha woman sounds too smug, I hate that! Temperament has so much to do with it, I am sure. Easy to be calm when your kids are compliant and laid back. And when they are good sleepers, that makes a huge difference too. I too used to believe that if you did all the 'right' things your child would be calm and content, the 'right' trusting environment for good behaviour. I don't believe that now! Sometimes you can do all the good stuff and it is still a case of weathering certain ages and stages. We are finding things progressively easier as DS gets older. Still ups and downs but certainly easier. Easier to be calm at the pool! Happy mum happy child? To some extent yes but wow it is a real two way street!

And hello cake too! I think we need to all throw perfectionism out the window. It puts so much pressure on us. I really struggle with it but am getting slowly better at embracing imperfection with big open arms

dishes I agree with you. Also, the fact that DS is so different without DD. When it's the two of us, he's polite, easygoing, seriously good company; I don't even think about what other people might be thinking when it's just the two of us. With DD in the mix, he's impulsive, makes crazy noises, joins in with tantrums, can be rude and if I'm h

Yep Dishes I totally agree with you.
It's a lot easier to keep calm with naturally calm kids! as I discovered with dd2 .

Hello cake and welcome! Do just dive in!

Hate this phone!

What I was trying to say is that it's still him and me, but external factors (in our case, our very lovely DD!) can also affect behaviour. If you saw me out just with DS I reckon I'd seem pretty calm and together, but that's because I'm not dealing with craziness.

Welcome, cakes :)

Xpost!

:)

I think you definitely have to take the whole perfectly behaved children thing with a pinch of salt. Usually in these cases people are lying, deluded or have just forgotten the tough parts.

My sister and I were very well behaved children and I had a conversation with an auntie recently who said that it could be quite intimidating that my mum and dad always seemed liked the perfect parents. They were/are good parents and got lots of things right but not everything. I think that part of the reason I was always so well behaved is that I felt that otherwise they would be disappointed in me. They pretty much never shouted but my mum could be quite cold and distant if you'd done something wrong. I think the absolutely didn't think of it in those terms but I think part of me felt I had to behave a certain way to be loved. I think that's the reason that as an adult I can be quite people pleasing and still feel like have to disguise my true self from my parents to a certain extent. I don't want that for my children. I frequently make a hash of things but try and tell DD regularly that even when I don't like her behaviour nothing changes how much I love her.

Calm parents defintely helps I think but it can be a bit chicken and egg. Are children well behaved because their parents are calm or are the parents calm because their children are well behaved? I know I definitely handle my two a million times better when I'm calm and that that gets better results. I'm trying to work on seeing the fact that my behaviour influences theirs as a reason to look after myself and my mental health rather than as further cause for beating my self up for not being perfect!

Pretty good day here aside from a mega temper episode from DD when leaving a friend's house (that old chestnut). There are no tears its just pure rage and its happening a lot at the moment. Not quite sure why.

bunly yes! I too was a relatively well behaved child but that was because I was scared of not being acceptable, not being loved. Getting told off made me physically hurt (still can! ) and getting smacked on top of that felt unbearable. I sometimes stood up for myself when the disclipine seemed overwhelmingly unfair but never felt like my point of view mattered or was worthwhile. Is it a coincidence that I have struggled with these things as an adult? I don't think so. My parents weren't abusive, fairly normal/common approach to discipline. But remembering being a child I know there is a real effect to tangling up love/acceptance with desired behaviour. Maybe we should give ourselves credit that our DC feel comfortable enough to express who they are with us!

I have a to have a bit of a wry smile at the calm parents/ calm children images. I have fairly close friends who have told me how easy I must have it, as my DC are so calm and easygoing. I will admit to having children who are much, much better out and about, particularly with an audience, than they are at home. I realise this is easier than DC who misbehave more out and about, in front of other people, but it certainly doesn't mean that mine are lovely and compliant all the time.

A snapshot will only ever be just that, if I can be considered a calm parent with calm children by some observers, then I question any observation of similar! I went to see a friend with a new baby the other day, and was so pleased to see her looking happy and relaxed, her DH and DC1 playing happily, but she just said to me how hard she's finding it, DS1 is being a nightmare and the cute, sleepy bundle of baby is unsettled a lot of the time. I think when DS2 was tiny, people probably thought everything was easy for us, but it was one of the hardest times of my life.

Hard though I find it t times, I also believe a completely confident child is more likely to act up a bit. Children who aren't secure in a parent's love, might be more compliant, to try and gain that love and trust. This doesn't always apply, as some children who have awful starts in life will demonstrate it by acting out, but I like to think some boundary pushing sows they know they can be difficult to be around, without worrying about losing your love.

I have had mainly better days during the summer hols, but need to think about how to react to actual dangerous situations. DS1 doesn't seem to have a filter between telling off for just being a bit naughty (taking scooter into house) and danger (scooting into road), despite the latter incurring much more shout/ punishment. I'm wondering if anyone has any ideas for making road safety, etc sink in? It is one of the few areas where I totally lose the plot very easily, as the consequences for getting it wrong are so high.

This thread really is amazing (and welcome cake, please come in and have a seat!). I am probably the 4th or 5th to say it but it really is like therapy. And for those of you who were around at the beginning, you may remember that I did try out therapy but I didn't really take to it. You guys, however, are my lifeline and I owe you so much - especially for still being here when I really needed to find you again! If we haven't become better parents over the last 6 months we have definitely learnt a huge amount. And the thing I love the most on this thread is the support and the compassion. I can never underestimate the importance of this. The fact I can feel like everything is crumbling around me and then come on here and get grounded again and reflect and realise that I knew what I needed to do all along but just needed some encouragement. That is priceless.
I am taking DS1 out tomorrow for a mummy and son day - we have no concrete plans apart from spending time together and I am looking forward to it so much.
mandbaby - your son's perceptiveness is fantastic. Just the encouragement that you need to keep going!
About the calm thing - I do think that some parents just have it a lot easier with their kids' temperaments but I have also learned that even when I am pretending to be calm (which happens a lot) they can tell and can sense the stress which just triggers bad behaviour and snippiness from me. If I can learn to be calmer it can only be a good thing for everyone in the family! Maybe I should take up yoga or meditation... :) So not me!!

I'm finding this time of day really tough at the moment. The DCs are getting tired but DD no longer naps reliably. I'm tired. The mummy mummy mummy mummy mummy mummy is becoming more insistent and whiny and my head is ready to explode! I've tried moving naptime to the car but it doesn't really make a difference. I need to find a new way of creating some headspace for me and downtime for them into the day. DS understands the concept of quiet time and seems to value it too, but DD has no off switch.

Any ideas very welcome please!

Road safety - I think you're right about the filter being missing. Can you avoid that situation completely - no scooter next to roads until he understands how to ride safely? I used to balance DS's on the pushchair until we got to the park because he was a flight risk too.

Searching, I hope you have a brilliant day with your boy.

The thing is I am not expecting perfect behaviour, it's just you know when things repeat constantly and you can't seem to get (them) out of that pattern. That's what I can't get my head around and usually it's only a threat of punishment that works in that instance. I don't mind if he forgets things or there's a lapse, or something he finds hard to cope with or there's something that we can talk about even if that transfers a problem to something else, but some things just seem to go in one ear and out the other - like stop climbing over the sofa (I wouldn't mind this at all, but it's pleather and huge chunks come off every time he does) and not standing on stuff that's on the floor (pick it up or at least step over/round it) - the worst is bags, he has this penchant for jumping on bags and it infuriates me because on more than one occasion there has been something inside which got broken or squashed. Gaaaaah!!

Road safety - I would say give lots of opportunity to practice on very slow, quiet roads with no parked cars where drivers can see him coming from a long way off and you can get that routine, stop, look, listen drilled in before he ever steps off any pavement. Scooting, I have never allowed scooting across roads anyway, so it hasn't been an issue. Might be tricky if you've said he can in the past and now not. I would take scooter away immediately for the duration of that walk/24 hours (whatever seems to make more sense) for this. And yep, this has lead to DS trying to wrestle it off me in the middle of the street but I did have one woman come up to me and say "Well done, you're doing the right thing" which was nice.

As he's older maybe you could make it into a "thing" and say he has to work for a "road crossing licence". Once he's got his licence then he's allowed to cross roads without holding hands, perhaps without help at all. (You could make up an extra one like an "extended licence" for crossing very big or advanced roads, like country roads where cars whip past at 60 with no warning etc.) but the licence can be revoked for irresponsible road crossing behaviour.

Aren't you in US as well now Searching? Or am I confusing you with something else. If jaywalking is illegal there perhaps that will help as an explanation as well, and they might do something with them at school.