Does anyone else want to come and be a better parent with me?

[AnotherMonkey]

I've just deleted my original post in an attempt to be more positive.

I'm very low tonight, both of mine (4.5 and nearly 2) are pushing me so far beyond my limits at the moment.

So instead of posting my rant of misery, I wondered if anyone felt like joining me in choosing one thing to be less crap at at time?

Tomorrow, I am going to begin by taking it all less seriously. I'm going to try really really hard not to shout at all (this is difficult because DS is deaf at the moment and often does things which are not safe or bloody annoying but I'm going to find ways around it if I can). Essentially I'm going to try to take a step back and instead of letting poor behaviour bring me down, I'm going to try to isolate problems so that they can be dealt with. I might even make a list. I like lists.

(This evening was so bad I never want to see my neighbours again. I'm quiet, smart and even tempered in real life. Tonight our house must have sounded like a war zone. Or the screaming toddler equivalent. It's shit and it has to change).

*so I was already carrying one bike

sorry for all the typos!

Hmm, maybe we're too educated and intelligent The cavewomen didn't have letters, did they? They just got on with it and didn't angst over everything!

I've been thinking about what my expectations actually are. When I read Dishes' post identifying with mine I immediately rejected the idea that I ever wanted DS to be obedient and placid. But here I am complaining that he is the opposite of those two things. So I have been trying to think about what I did expect, I suppose I expected to for him to not always do exactly as he is told like a robot, but to at least give me something to work with. And perhaps he is?

Claire, I agree with Dreaming that that sounds like the kind of thing which would have irritated me hugely when my sister was younger. I remember being irritated at her for all sorts of ridiculous things - the shape her mouth went when she cried, for example! and agree it will probably come back when she is 18 or so and through the horrid hormone bit.

Perhaps with situations like that you could try to recognise that like a toddler tantrum it is probably irrational, and not try to rationalise it like saying "there's nobody here" etc. Just say "Ask her to stop and if she doesn't stop, don't look at her".

claires that incident reminds me of the beginning of a Miranda episode, when she says something along the lines of 'you know when you're stressed because the little things annoy you', while scrabbling frantically to untangle the cord on a pair of headphones before hacking the top section off with a pair of scissors and shoving them in her ears

It could be that she finds her sister annoying and embarrassing because who doesn't at that age but that her reaction was more to do with underlying stress/angst. Getting to the bottom of that, or just piling on the love, might be what's needed? You really have got your hands full at the moment. Year 9 is notorious for girls.

Today has been fine. There's been some crazy behaviour but I'm happy with how I've handled it. 'I can handle it' has been my mantra

Thanks all, I think you're all right.
I am the annoying younger sister so it's difficult for me to see stuff through dd1's perspective.
I can totally see how I'm projecting my own relationship with my sister here. I always wanted things to be different between my two but I guess I only have very limited control over it. I have to learn to step back more.

Dd3 has been playing up at bedtime too, endless excuses and eventually she was howling every time I tried to leave. Aaargh I do NOT need this as well!

Well done Monkey for getting through a good day. [happy]

And Dreaming too for keeping calm!

Bertiebotts yes to not rationalising it. Makes sense now.

I'm happy at least that it didn't turn into a proper fight or screaming match, I manage not to run after dd1 and ldct her to calm down in her bedroom. Later she walked with me snd the dts to go for an icecream, and it was very pleasant. [happy]

I love this thread, so often I come back to it and think at least I'm not the only one enduring exactly the same battles. Bertie this: 'He's anxious, like me, he overthinks, he's scarily intelligent (he does mental arithmetic and he's never been to school!) he has tics, I've started assuming that he has either ADHD or high functioning aspergers or both' very accurately describes DS1. Now he is at school, they referred him for ed psych assessment, but he has been signed off as very, very bright, slightly quirky, but no major concerns (despite a fair few minor ones). I get the same feeling that I'm crushing something amazing and fragile, on the rare occasions when a telling off actually makes his bottom lip wobble.

And Another I always thought having DS2 had in some way broken DS1 and the relationship we had. Now they're a little older (6 and 3) I find the way they love, play and miss each other makes up for a lot of that feeling. It's still bloody difficult when they tag team and are pulling in opposite directions though, 2 is sometimes far more than twice as hard as one (and hats off to all those with more than 2 or twins).

Today wasn't brilliant but I kind of know where we went wrong, having had very relaxed, easy going holidays we tried to see everyone and do everything today. Everyone lost the plot on the way home and several more times before bed. We'll hope for better tomorrow.

SettheWorld yes, that's exactly how I've felt. It's true though that increasingly, they are becoming very fond of each other and I love the moments when that shines through. But absolutely YES to finding two more than twice as hard as one. They wind each other up no end and are buggers for encouraging madness in each other.

And also yes - I'm increasingly aware that I'm trying to squash some qualities which, in the long term, I want him to keep hold of and which are special. I've been thinking about that a lot.

Dreaming another here saying so not a prat, outnumbered and sleep deprived maybe....one good night does not undo two years of disturbed sleep. Well done for staying calm, I remember setting out optimistically with an enthusiastic toddler on a bike or with toy pushchair on more than one occasion and Very Quickly it all turns to wading through treacle type progress with me thinking "I knew this would happen! Why did I agree?"

Letting them be autonomous is really hard work and time consuming, that's why getting them to dress themselves is a challenge.
Claire's that is exactly the sort of exchange that happens here between daughters aged 12 and 13. I can't suggest anything to make it stop (watching carefully for magical advice........) but I do know how you feel .
As to relationships with mothers, well mine is lovely in many many ways but that's a subject I'd probably better not start on and I'll settle for saying I do not discuss childrearing techniques with her. For many years the script was that my DH and I 'spoilt' the girls and were too soft on them, now my brother and his wife have children and the heat is off me and the criticism comes his way (they apparently are too strict) me? I'm up for parent of the year award these days.....
Woops, said I wouldn't go there then did.

Going back to the sibling quarrel claires Letting older ones cool off in their room is good too. Then offering praise if they have done anything approaching 'the right thing' such as making peace or being good company on the way to get ice cream. She possibly wants to see herself as being grown up, and being irritated by childish behaviour is what grown ups do (?).
bertie your late night post made me want to give you a hug. (knowing you are the same age as my eldest doesn't help!) What you are feeling is normal, childrearing is at times boring frustrating and personally draining. It is work but work that we are so emotionally entangled in that it is really hard to be objective.

I realised

Oops! Will start again

I realised something

Oh FFS!! Cannot post on this phone, I'm not even sure what's going on

Right. I realised this morning that when DS is in one of his moods where he just isn't up for connecting with me, when he purposefully behaves badly and says he doesn't like me or I'm stupid when I pick him up on it, or when he ignores me or laughs when I'm speaking about behaviour to him or DD; instead of seeing it as fairly normal 5 year old annoying behaviour, I see it as a betrayal.

It was a lightbulb moment. It's still bloody annoying but if I can try to keep hold of that knowledge that it's a normal part of growing up maybe I'll feel calmer. Things have become so muddied with my guilt over the change in our relationship since DD, but sister or not, things weren't always going to be like they we're when he was 2.

Honestly, this thread is like counselling.

How do people deal with other people? I have FIL staying at the moment and he keeps messing with the system. So, DD might say, "I hate toast, I'm not eating it". I say, "that's a shame, I thought you liked toast, I'll just leave it here, you don't have to eat it". 80% of the time, she eats it, the other 20%, she isn't hungry. FIL; "eat your toast, don't waste it, do you want to grow up weak. Children need to eat the toast their mummies make FFS" I actually came out with, "food is not a battleground in this house" to him the other day.

mrs TP ah yes! this thread has visited this topic a while ago! you are not alone! not just in laws and parents but other halves like to throw a spanner in the works on a regular basis.
My children generally work out who just "tells it like it is" and who "goes on", as mine call a tirade like that, and will make their own decision about which system they prefer and are more likely to cooperate with. I think if it an occasional irritation breathe out slowly and try to let it pass, if he is a regular visitor you might need to have a quiet tactful word about the approach that you have found works best.
(And that would be yours of course )

However it is also worth remembering that the generation that grew up with rationing and postwar austerity can be almost viscerally uncomfortable with the concept of wasted food. This can be an emotive subject for those that experienced real hunger in their lives too.

Oh good, I will go back and read in detail. I want to sit back and let FIL deal with the consequences but, of course, DD suffers and her behaviour deteriorates. Thankfully DH is emotionally on board if not entirely able to execute it all the time.

I find the 'other people' issue a bit of a hot one for me, because unless it is DP (and even then) someone else contradicting what you have just said as a parent feels undermining to me, and an attempt to control me as much as DS. Several of the DGP have this tendency. I know I am overly sensitive but if I came to their work place and contradicted things they said to their colleagues well that would be rude at least, and it seems like similar behaviour?

Counselling, yes! This thread is a balm

I have wondered sometimes if grandparents have difficulty letting go of the habit/concept/fact that we are actually their "child" and that therefore they have the right to continue to tell us how to behave.
'Letting go' into independence and adulthood; discuss: .......................
..................

My one tip for the day would be this: Blissfully and completely ignore the bad behaviour and throw all your energy into praising and rewarding good/desirable behaviour no matter how small, go OTT so that clear distinction is made between your two behaviour states (and it means you can vent some of your pent up frustration connected with the bad stuff, but in a positive way). As soon as desirable behaviour is shown drop whatever else your doing and support/praise/reward. As soon as undesirable behaviour is shown, say nothing and walk away, as if bored, to do something else. Good behaviour might be eg stopping screaming for a moment to take a breath, it could be that little.

Your kids won't have a clue what is going on but they quickly learn that they get mummy attention from this and not from that. So they do more of this and less of that. Then you are training them into the good/desirable behaviours. Hope that makes sense?

Also try making a list of what good and bad behaviours are in your book. Helps to clear your head when they throw you a curve ball.

Reward vs bored.

It's dh not 'getting it' that drives me most wild. so this morning I stroked dt1 head every few minutes from 5:20am to 6:10 am. He then stayed asleep till 7!!! unheard of. All part of trying to train him to sleep a bit longer and hopefully be less overtired and dreadful in the day. All I asked dh was if he'd go to him and check his light had come.on and tell him he'd done well and take him downstairs . heard dh basically pick him up and just carry him downstairs- dt1 is a difficult one like that anyway so of course he just screamed the house down

Sorry to post and run but I've just seen this which is brilliant, and the next four look good too. Some of the recent Aha posts have been so pie in the sky for me, I'm looking forward to these :)

www.ahaparenting.com/_blog/Parenting_Blog/post/No_Time_for_Meltdown/

Have been reading and wanting to post but so difficult to find time - especially as my phone is now a liability when trying to type!
Interested in the topic about "other people's" intervention and opinions on parenting, Mrs TP, as I definitely feel defensive whenever anyone suggests that I might be doing something the wrong way - and I also battle with DH just not getting why I am trying to do things a particular way.
letsgo - the generational factor is very interesting and I think more important than I have considered previously. We had a development day at work where they hosted a number of sessions and talks to focus on career development. One of the sessions I attended took me so much by surprise that I nearly cried right there in the meeting room among my peers and senior mgmt. The session was on generational differences and the role they have played in the evolution of how we do business and interact in the workplace. It resonated so much with me not only from a work perspective but also from a personal stand point. The presenter was amazing and hysterically funny - which is why the tears that sprung to my eyes caught me 100% off guard. He basically went through the different generations: traditionalists (20-40s) Baby boomers (40-60s), Gen X (60-80s) and Millenials (80-00s) and talked about what was going on in the world for each of these groups growing up and what the world looked like. Then he talked about the characteristics of each of these generations as a result of that environment. For myself as a gen X'er it seemed to explain a huge amount about who I am, how I tackle my work and also how I tackle parenting and my life in general. Not wanting to bore anyone but the summary of it was that we were kids very much left to our own devices, almost a bit too much in some cases - being the first generation that experienced soaring levels of divorce and single parenting as well as both parents being in the workplace. As a result we are determined not to let our kids go through the same experience meaning that we feel the need to have answers to anything that we didn't get answers to ourselves. Considering the lack of knowledge and answers as failure - we are a fiercely independent generation who is strong in so many ways and very private. We are focused on execution, we get on with whatever life throws at us but we don't give ourselves a break, we won't show signs of weakness. I don't know - it resonated with me so much that I got a little emotional.
Anyway - sorry if that was off topic but I felt the need to share. Thanks for the aha parenting link bertie - I haven't spent enough time on there and plan to read more of it. On the reward good / ignore bad point, billy I think it makes a lot of sense in theory but unfortunately it is not always that easy in practice - how to ignore when one is hitting the other, when things are getting broken, even when the noise levels are unacceptable for the environment we live it. It would be nice to be able to ignore but it's not always possible. I totally agree with overly congratulating on the good though and I need to do more of that.
Have a good weekend all.

Evening everyone.

Like searching, I've also struggled with the time to get on here and post but try and read everyone's posts daily.

After a fairly good few days (although Thursday was tough) this morning I totally lost it with DS2 (3yo). For the last few days, he's been a nightmare and I think my anger and frustration with him just built up and up and I yelled and handled him rougher than necessary :( I pretty much marched him out of the room holding on to the top of his arm. He's been so petulant and belligerent the last few days and, although every day starts off fairly well, the minute he knows that he's done something wrong, or I've spoken to him in a way that's hurt his feelings, he goes all-out to make my life hell.

Something occurred to me today and I feel utterly ashamed admitting this, but I've realised what "button" it is that DS2 presses (those of you that have read "when kids push your buttons" will know what I mean). My irrational "fear" is that DS2 will become exactly like DH. They look alike, they love the same foods, and they have the same cheeky sense of humour. But, horribly, they have the same short temper and (at times) uncontrollable anger. The traits in DH that I can't stand, I worry that DS2 will have/keep as he grows into a man. I sometimes see in DS2 all the things that I don't like in DH. Isn't that awful?? They're two separate people and one is my son whom I love more than life itself, but when he's naughty and rude and angry, I worry that if he stays like that I could really dislike him! :(

DS1 (4.9yo) on the other hand, with whom I used to fight with all the time (despite our personalities being very similar, we would clash like cat and dog) have been getting on SO much better. He told me the other night when I was putting him to bed "mummy, you don't yell at me anymore. You talk things through with me and make me feel better". It literally made my heart melt. I've still been a cow sometimes and every day is a battle with myself to improve and change the dynamics of our house (despite DH's doubts that it's doing any good) but my 4 year old has noticed a big change. That's got to be a good thing, right?! I've just got to try harder to not let DS2 push my buttons and to let the little things go. It's so hard though isn't it. Us mums really are fantastic, aren't we? When I think about all the things we have to do on a daily hourly basis, as well as battling jobs, hormones and fatigue, it's no wonder we "lose it" from time to time.

Wow searching, that sounds really interesting! :) I'd love to know if you remember what they said about the millennials, I find I can't always relate to a lot of it because the assumption is that we have everything immediately available and really high expectations (there's a great graphic about Generation Y/Millennial Yuppies, they're all disappointed because they were promised a speshul yooneek flower career, and are just at a normal level of career development but see their peers on facebook projecting a totally unrealistic view of their own lives and so are convinced everyone has the "special unique flower" career but not them). Anyway we didn't have much money when I was growing up so I don't see this kind of thing at all, but I do get the "ease and familiarity with technology" thing, but I don't know much else about the mindset as it were.

mandbaby I get flashes of that where I'm scared that DS has some kind of genetic link to my ex, he does have certain mannerisms and facial expressions which are just like him, which is so bizarre, because he hasn't seen him since he was two. But the thing which helps me to come down to earth and feel calmer about it is to remember that a lot of the things which I disliked about XP were very childish behaviours, that's kind of the main reason why they were irritating or jarring or offputting in an adult, and so it's inevitable that DS will go through these kind of behaviours because he's just being a child. I think there's a danger that we can overreact to things that we are worried about and inadvertently make them worse or cause other problems, so it's important to try and recognise this and make sure you're dealing with the issue (whether it's rudeness, lack of respect, anger, etc) in a constructive way rather than a very harsh and reactionary way. Maybe try to think what the opposite is and how to encourage or foster that.

It's so lovely that your 4yo noticed!! :) That's a brilliant bit of motivation right there. You're doing good :)

Terry I would say with relatives for short/occasional visits just let it go. It is not likely to cause long term harm as long as you're providing the supportive/appropriate environment the rest of the time.

Thank you for the virtual hug Letsgo :) I know that my mum would give me a hug if she was here to do it!