Does anyone else want to come and be a better parent with me?

[AnotherMonkey]

I've just deleted my original post in an attempt to be more positive.

I'm very low tonight, both of mine (4.5 and nearly 2) are pushing me so far beyond my limits at the moment.

So instead of posting my rant of misery, I wondered if anyone felt like joining me in choosing one thing to be less crap at at time?

Tomorrow, I am going to begin by taking it all less seriously. I'm going to try really really hard not to shout at all (this is difficult because DS is deaf at the moment and often does things which are not safe or bloody annoying but I'm going to find ways around it if I can). Essentially I'm going to try to take a step back and instead of letting poor behaviour bring me down, I'm going to try to isolate problems so that they can be dealt with. I might even make a list. I like lists.

(This evening was so bad I never want to see my neighbours again. I'm quiet, smart and even tempered in real life. Tonight our house must have sounded like a war zone. Or the screaming toddler equivalent. It's shit and it has to change).

Sorry phone rubbish to post on. DH has a tendency to micro manage (but says I do and can be quite grumpy and argumentative ) DD3 is also belligerent and shouty just likeDH and t'other one just retreats.

We had a good few moments yesterday when they had a big ongoing quarrel about some incident at school months ago and there was a big stomping off and slamming of doors. I grabbed a tomato and said "this is the talking tomato, only the person holding it is allowed to speak" they thought it was really funny and both pretty much cooperated. The ancient school incident was dealt with and no one cried, said they hated each other, interrupted, slammed doors or curled up into a foetal ball. Result.

While I've been typing this and the DCs have been supposedly clearing up after our tea there has been much yelling, DD3 ( who shall be called Awkward One yes I know I'm not supposed to label I don't care ) has declared she hates us and has slammed off to her room. DD2 has been heard to apologise and is now calmly drawing. The kitchen has not been done and DH, who was nominally in charge, is..........

Hooray I've just heard the AO apologise to DH. (Me and her had a little chat upstairs.......) Come on you plonker accept with good grace don't bloody grunt at her.

Off now to try and pour oil on the troubled waters of my Tuesday night..................
The main thing is that the DCs are going to tidy up! ideally with no more shouting. That is the goal. May post later
Oh and the clever money is saying Bansheeeeeeeeee!

let'sgo love the tomato incident. Sounds great.

After 2 shocking nights dh took over and did last night and has saved me. Unsurprisingly I've been much more patient this morning!

Letsgo I LOVE the talking tomato! I may have to use that one. My boys love it when I make a joke out of a tantrum!

I'm glad I'm not the only one who seems to get angry at their kids to stop their OH getting angry first. It really winds me up that I always end up being the bad guy because of having to step in to diffuse a situation that I would otherwise let go.

Settheworldonfire Are we married to the same man?! My DH thinks EXACTLY the same thing - that other people's children are all angels and that ours are demonic. Like you, I see far more under 5s than he does and realise that our two are completely normal and generally a lot better than some, but he just wont believe it.

We've had a good(ish) couple of days. But my DS2 telling me to shut up every time I say something to him that he doesn't like gets my blood boiling. Tonight, I warned him three times that if he said it again, I'd take away his favourite cuddly toy until he could get through a day without saying it.

One thing that's confused me about reading all these "gentle parenting" books is where is the line between letting the little things go, and trying to bring about natural consequences? Either I ignore him telling me to shut up, or I gently warn him that it's not acceptable and gently "punish" (i.e. remove his favourite toy) when he continues to do it. How the hell do I know which approach to take?! Oh God, why isn't parenting easier?! How has the world become so overpopulated? Wouldn't you think we'd have all learned by now to not bother ;) (just kidding!!)

Sorry for my ranty grumpy posts last night
Getting engaged with what was going on helped get things back on track (note to self: nose in ipad on mn or fb does NOT help....)
I made the DDs go out on bikes with me, despite protests (mean mummy! ) they had a nice time, met a friend and played in the park until nearly 9. Then we came home and had a game of cluedo in the garden, winding down nicely to be able to sleep on a hot night. No more screeching or sulking
Glad your DH took over dreaming and you were able to catch up a little snooz time. That is one area in which my DH and I are well matched. He is a night owl and I am an early bird, so he could cope better with poor settling children up to about midnight/ 1am where I would be like a zombie if I'd already gone to sleep before they woke up at that time. But from about 3am I'd consider it 'nearly morning' and be better able to cope with that time. Between about 1am and 3am we'd both be zombies!

mandbaby thinking about the 'shut up' reactions. If he knows how much you hate it this could have turned into a game. The best way to deal with that may be to resolutely not react at all. Remind me of his age please?
By the way, I misread DS2 as DH and I'd reached the bit about confiscating the cuddly toy before I twigged ( seething at the prospect of his disrespect.......)

Lol! He turned 3 a couple of weeks ago.

This thread continues to make me want to cry with relief!!

Yes yes yes to all of it, tag teams (behaviour AND sleep here), patience issues, the worry that I'm just going to fuck it all up, the accidental swearing, general daily embarrassment actually at what I perceive other people must think is my complete incompetence as a parent.

At the moment, the thing most pushing my buttons is DS's continued inability to do what I ask of him. He might blow a raspberry, or do a big fake laugh, or mad actions or noises, or just completely ignore it. It reeeally winds me up. He also gets completely wired if I'm having to deal with a tantrum from DD. I'm seriously considering spending tomorrow responding in the same way to him. "Mummy, can I use your phone?" "Bbblllllpppphhhhh". "Mummy, can I have an ice cream?" "HAHAHAHAHAAAAA".

I'm sure this is sibling jealousy based, it's never an issue when just me and him. But he has a sister and somehow we've got to find a way to deal with his hurt.

I also love the talking tomato strategy!

And also a massive yes to the gentle parenting confusion.

I feel that I swing like a mad person between gentle parenting and then demon mother when it clearly isn't working. I want to encourage strong minds and independence and self confidence, but sometimes I just need them to be safe or not arrogant little sods or just get out of the house before the evening and it's a fine, fine balance in our household.

Letsgo you so rarely write ranty grumpy posts that it's a relief if anything!!

Yes, I think it was DH who pointed out to me that I swing between perfect gentle parent and screaming banshee and it's confusing and a bit scary for DS :( It's so hard. I believe in the gentle stuff so much, I can't abandon it totally. But gentle parenting doesn't give you a safety guard against losing it, like I think that more authoritative/punishment reliant parenting does. If you can threaten something and then calmly see it through it should stop you from getting mad (although I'm sure it doesn't all the time!) - it's the kind of lack of a fallback option.

However - the stuff I've got mainly from aha parenting and when kids push your buttons is about having boundaries ie things that you just will not allow them to do, and having that boundary be absolute even if you enforce it in different ways on different days. So for example with the raspberries and laughing, your boundary could be "that is disrespectful and we don't have disrespectful talk in this house". So you could prevent it in various ways - removing yourself, asking him when calm to think of something he can do when he doesn't feel like doing something and wants to let you know that (thinking of something he can blow like a party blower although less annoying!) and adding a sanction (maybe stay in room for 1 minute per rude noise?) if you really can't think of any way to prevent it or are not calm/collected enough to do so. Honestly it's the only way that I've enabled myself to keep hold of the gentle thing, while not losing it constantly.

I just get constantly tripped up with the gentle parenting thing on stuff that they do that you can't prevent. You can't prevent them from refusing to do stuff and you can't prevent them from being annoying on purpose and you can't prevent them from being rude. And all of those things are real triggers for me. I get incredibly pissed off when I go to pick him up from kindergarten, it's always hot and humid in there and I'm standing in there sweltering while he looks sadly at his shoes and then distracts for frigging AGES before he will put them on. I try being cheerful and chivvying, I try helping him (although there's a limit, I mean, I get fed up doing stuff for him that he could do himself and does do himself when there's nobody around) but no nothing works until I start getting a bit whiny and panicky and the staff side eye me. And then he throws himself to the floor in a fit of dramatics because his hands are tired and GOD MOTHER why do you expect me to carry my own bag. Well more fool me for carrying it once or twice to be nice. It feels so rigid and draconian to enforce a boundary like "everybody carries their own bags" when it's a hot day, I don't have a bag that day and he wants to run with his friends. But no if I do that, we get meltdowns on a day that he just decides he doesn't want to carry his bag and he refuses to take it even when there's nothing in it! Gah! Being consistent with the boundary does pay off but it feels so petty.

Something I'd really like some advice on if anyone has any ideas.... DD has the most epic tantrums. If she really gets going, it's rare but bloody hell she goes for it. When this happens, DS either fake-laughs even louder than her screams, or screams along with her.

There is no softly-softly c

Monkey?!?!
What happened?
Never mind mid sentence? That was mid word.....Alien abduction?

More likely techno malfunction

I'm sure she'll be back.

Oh dear epic techno fail!! Didn't even think that had posted! Struggling with connection a bit here.

I stopped because I wasn't quite sure how to describe it.

But to continue... DD generally needs just a little bit of space before a big hug when she gets into that state. But she's very little and very very very loud, so bad enough in public when it's just me and her. But when DS adds his mad laughs/screams on top, I basically just want to dig a hole, and end up just being hugely authoritarian.

Given that DD is hugely upset (even if it seems to be over something daft) and DS is, I suspect, acting out his own stress, this isn't how I want to respond. But I panic and feel sure that everyone around will be convinced I'm murdering both children and just want the noise to stop.

I wondered if anyone has any more positive ideas for dealing with this?

I use the word 'just' too much :)

Hello, may I join you? Please, please, please. I talk the talk re gentle parenting but if you'd have seen me walking through town today with a face like thunder and DD walking behind screaming at the top of her lungs you wouldn't have guessed.

I have DD who is 4.5 and DS who is 1.5 and I'm having a bit of a testing time at the mo. DD is very up and down, some days she's an absolute sweetheart and then others, like today, a complete nightmare.

I definitely struggle with the whole gentle parenting/screaming banshee thing. I'm really keen on unconditional parenting and it totally works but there are some days I just feel like I don't want to understand your inner emotional turmoil or make this in to a fun game I just want you to put your fucking shoes on.

Love the talking tomato. I definitely find that ludicrous games are the best for getting them to cooperate. When DD is being uncooperative at bedtime we play this game where I pretend to think she's already ready for bed and she has to get ready really quickly with DH so I don't find out. She find's it hillarious and I just sit in the other room shouting things like 'that's not tooth brushing I hear is it because you're in bed aren't you?'.

With the shut up thing my strategy would be to simply keep repeating something like 'please don't tell me to shut up its rude' but other than that don't react and continue as normal and he'll probably stop once he see's it doesn't provoke you. With DD I find if I start bringing in punishments it becomes more of a big deal but if i'm calm but unwaivering it has better results. Not that that is helping with my current problem - DD shoving or otherwise hurting DS. Staying calm but firm that is completely unacceptable has helped to reduce it but we're still having maybe one incident a day.

Oooh tricky. Maybe something about accepting feelings from both of them? I'm sure you're right that he can't cope with the noise/seeing her so upset and she's just doing her normal toddler thing which she'll grow out of when she gets some perspective.

You need a pocket zen! That would be one to ask one of the super hippy sites I reckon.

Laughter can be a miscommunication of fear or upset apparently. So I would treat both laughing and screaming by DS in the same way. Could you comfort him while waiting for her to be ready for her hug? It will look perfectly bonkers to onlookers, but I think you probably just have to try to override that mentally and think "This is a phase, they will both grow out of this, that stranger is never going to see me again and they don't matter". You could also try counting slowly to 60. I bet the worst of it doesn't last longer than 1 minute.

Or I saw something on the fostering programme a couple of weeks ago, that a girl who was very angry when she came into foster care, when she went into violent meltdowns her foster carer would hold/restrain her and start singing a song which kept repeating "Everything will be alright"

You could try and rationalise your fear that strangers think you're murdering them - what are they going to do? If they called the police, by the time the police arrived everything would be fine and the other person would end up looking silly. OK you might get a silly comment or two but probably not anywhere near as often as you're thinking. I do know the fear though!

Bertie thanks for all the great advice this evening. Need to google pocket zen! I wonder if it would work if I comforted DS first. Could maybe get him involved then in calming DD.

That point about laughter as miscommunication of fear/upset touched a nerve actually - there are other situations too where I think that might apply. I need to bear it in mind.

Rich - welcome your pits made me smile, I could see myself in your description!

Pits?! Post. Your post made me smile!

I was wondering about pits....had I missed something?......

I think the gentle parent/ screaming banshee dilemma can be addressed when you think carefully about what you want to happen. Pick your battles and think about what is achievable and what Matters. (Capitals deliberate)
Last night I knew that what had to happen was the tidying of the kitchen (no option girls you are doing it we have been at work all day and you have not, your lunch dishes are still out so get it done. If you work together it will be easy. Well done I can re wash that greasy tray once you are in bed but an effort has been made that's good enough Rome wasn't built in a day )
And some exercise to mop up the stress and aggro and cabin fever after a hot day winding each other up ( we are going out. Bikes or walking? Ok bikes. Here are three potential routes....pick one. Excellent. Let's go)
If you can, "I'm thinking about it", can be a very useful phrase. But once you know what needs to happen it can be easier to stay calm.

I try not to rant and grumble. I am acutely aware that my kids are about 10 yrs older than most of the regular posters and I want you to believe it will get better............................
It will. It really will.
bunlygoodness cool name and welcome. You had a good phrase, summed it up well...."calm but unwavering" I also laughed at "...don't want to understand your inner turmoil.....put your fucking shoes on"
Yes. Remember that feeling.
Have had 3 large so may be rambling. Off to a festival with DCs this weekend and feel like I'm on my hols!

Hello everyone - we've been away but I have been reading. Just want to say YES YES YES! to everything (particularly the tag teams and the split personality between gentle and demon!) and thank you for reminding me that I am vaguely sane.

We went on a short holiday to a tropical paradise and I explained to all three children (DH included!) that we would not be having any horrible behaviour or shouting on holiday because we were all going to have a lovely time. And a lovely time we had, but that was not all, oh no that was not all. We also had a shocked audience a number times: me frogmarching my screaming 5 year old to the showers by the pool to remove sand before carrying him under one arm (I am as strong as the incredible hulk when angry) to our room (which I did not have the key to of course!). And the worst was when there was a full family screaming match in the room when DH decided he had had enough of the boys fighting over a beach ball, confiscated it, they both sat on the floor screaming in tears (united at last in their grief), meanwhile I was on the phone to reception who had called to check if we were enjoying our holiday ("oh yes, just marvellous!" I yelled over the hideous noise), put the phone down and became screaming banshee yelling at them all to stop and then we left the room to find 3 maids outside looking at each other wide eyed and shaking their heads. GROUND OPEN UP AND SWALLOW ME! Apart from that and the inability to get the boys out of the room every day (3 times a day at least) without requiring a strategy that would put a military operation to shame... we had a lovely time :)

Oh and on the language front, DS1's favourite pastime now when in public is to sing a song that consists of the words bum, farty, poopy and face in various combinations which my 2 year old DS2 now copies perfectly and in fact is the first thing that came to his lips on waking this morning. Charming! Also DS1 has picked up from somewhere saying "What the!!?" in the right context. He has never said anything after "the" and I am not sure he knows there could be anything (although I did let out a what the hell just once which sparked a conversation about what is hell?) I have just been ignoring it, trying very hard not to laugh and also not wanting to tell him off because the words in themselves are harmless and I wouldn't want to suggest that there was something additional he could add that is naughty!!! Arghhhh :)

Anyway - rambly post. Must go and move DS1 to his own bed. DS2 had his first night without bars on his cot which was so much FUN, I decided that adding DS1 to the mix might tip me over the edge.

Night all!

This thread helps my state of mind immensely

I have decided the biggest help for me.will be getting more sleep. I am. reasonable for the most part and almost sane I can report as the night before last (when dh had taken over) I had 7 hours straight sleep I had a day of wildly improved parenting. it's giving me the strength to stay with the sleep programme which is hard going. But then when isn't making changes hard?!

I think if try to calm the older child while younger tantruming. I have tried getting my.dd to help me and it is working. Being closer to her helps. What doesn't help is when I start feeling overwhelmed when I do the instant change from kind gentle parent to snappy screaming banshee. I'm with you Bertie when my.dh has pointed this out. I got very defensive initially- truth hurts .

I do see the way forward more and more now. Now to implement it!!

searching sounds like a holiday I could see us having . At least there were good bits in between and I know of no other way than raising my voice to get their attention when all screaming. Though I think I should try the raising an arm/ whispering/ doing a silly dance- any other way of getting attention. I'd like to pretend that's definitely what I'd do first but I'd be lying