Does anyone else want to come and be a better parent with me?

[AnotherMonkey]

I've just deleted my original post in an attempt to be more positive.

I'm very low tonight, both of mine (4.5 and nearly 2) are pushing me so far beyond my limits at the moment.

So instead of posting my rant of misery, I wondered if anyone felt like joining me in choosing one thing to be less crap at at time?

Tomorrow, I am going to begin by taking it all less seriously. I'm going to try really really hard not to shout at all (this is difficult because DS is deaf at the moment and often does things which are not safe or bloody annoying but I'm going to find ways around it if I can). Essentially I'm going to try to take a step back and instead of letting poor behaviour bring me down, I'm going to try to isolate problems so that they can be dealt with. I might even make a list. I like lists.

(This evening was so bad I never want to see my neighbours again. I'm quiet, smart and even tempered in real life. Tonight our house must have sounded like a war zone. Or the screaming toddler equivalent. It's shit and it has to change).

I'm glad I found this thread again - had a bad week or two with DS (now 6) and DD (2.5). DS is driving me insane. He just doesn't listen, and if he does listen he then ignores what he has been asked and he has started to answer back really rudely at times. He is also pushing and hitting DD again. I am pretty sure this morning he pushed her down the last few stairs but he swears she fell (luckily she was ok) - he pushes/kicks her so often I don't believe him anymore. I don't know what to do - no threats seem to work. I've tried chatting with him about it and always praise the good but there is little of the good at the moment to praise. He has just had his birthday and plenty of attention, party, nice presents etc but still poor behaviour.

Today I have probably gone too far but I have said if his behaviour does not improve tomorrow and monday (and I have told him what he needs to do) then he will not go on his school trip on Tues. I am desperately hoping it does, or I am screwed as I don't want to go through with this. I should probably not have chosen this but I was struggling to think of anything that actually bothers him that would have an impact.

Hello to newcomers and good to see lots of the "original" gang still here too.

bugger - killed the thread!

@ jiggle
No that was me a few weeks back! Thought it was dead and buried. Now it is revived (hurrah!) but so much has been posted that there is a bit of thinking time occurring.
All I could think when I read dreaming 's post above was "three toddlers on balance bikes ...... A braver woman than me and no wonder things got a bit fraught" I think you did fine in the circs. Some days are hard and it all goes tits up. There will be others, some better, some worse! What do you think you would do differently if you had the chance to do the day again?

Jiggle I hope he behaves and gets his trip! At 6, and as you have been specific about the behaviour you want, he knows what he needs to do and I don't think it is too distant a treat to relate to. If you want him to have the trip he needs plenty "opportunity to be good" so I wouldn't try anything too challenging like tea with aunt Gladys followed by a trip to a ceramics museum........I hope today has gone well!

letsgo I think I'd have spoken to the other child first, maybe calmed down when I saw she was unhurt- then had the conversation about appropriate behaviour without the duping on the ground...i think. Makes me cringe just thinking about it.

Day One just about completed without shouting here. Up to the DT1 must go to sleep without me on the bed or holding his hand- was worried but we all survived.

To make me feel it must all be worth it, last night DT1 woke at 10:30 ish as normal but I was brushing my teeth and DH managed to settle him in his bed. He then didn;t wake again til 2am- unheard of. It became clear this was because DD had got in bed with him, so when DH vacted ours to go and sleep in his he was utterly confused to find a sleeping child already in it Pretty cute. especially as those 2 don't get on well at all in the day usually

Could you regulars possibly do me a catch up with who you are and your dc?! If I throw in and

Hello dreaming. I'm one that has the benefit of hindsight. Mine are DD1(25) DD2(13) DD3(12). Now more teenage tantrums than toddler ones! I remember it well though, especially having the younger two so close together and a teenager. It was hard and I'm really not great with little ones. It is easier now that they are bigger.
You are by the way totally fine to plunge into the thread! No one will be snide here, there's no clique and no judging!

I've got just the one DS, 5 years old. We moved to Germany about 10 months ago. I've just got married this year but DS is from a previous relationship. He doesn't see his dad and considers DH to be "Daddy" but does know about XP.

It was really tough to say no, Letsgo which I feel totally silly saying - I mean it's kind of a basic thing, no? Ah well. Had long chat with DH last night again about parenting styles. He's more the "Do as I say immediately, no question" - he says he's happy for DS to ask why but in practice not so much but I think I'm going to quietly observe a bit - my gut feeling is that a 5yo isn't mature or emotionally controlled enough to ask why in a calm mature way and hence will kick off rather than questioning sensibly, which is why I'm perceiving that DS isn't getting a chance to ask about something but DH is perceiving that he's being fair. (And he is fair, generally, he's extremely reasonable and thoughtful but his upbringing was rather "old school" and I think he doesn't realise a lot of the time how he comes across.)

My parenting style is more - I don't expect immediate obedience and I don't expect DS to do what I say just because, but more modelling good values and focusing on the relationship and having a boundary for a defined and logical reason rather than "because I said so". Yes outright ignoring me when I ask him something or stomping off or deliberately doing the opposite is still not okay - but for me that's because it's rude and insulting rather than because it's "defiant" or "disobedient". But, with this kind of parenting style it really relies on you building up a solid foundation when they're little of trust (which I don't know that I've always done even though I've tried, just because part of trust is being predictable and solid, whereas I can be emotionally unstable and swing wildly from one mood to another, I wasn't really aware I was doing this until DH pointed it out but he's right), awareness of danger etc (I've done this, if I can blow my own trumpet, this is something I'm good at because the boundaries are clear and easily defined and you can't just ignore it when you're tired etc) and boundaries (again, I've been flaky, partly because when he was younger I didn't really have a full understanding of the concept and partly because I am lazy and undisciplined in myself and have a tendency to say oh go on then if I'm tired or can't bring myself to do something.)

Gah! So I was saying I've overcomplicated everything for myself and it would be easier to go with the more authoritative parenting model (if only it didn't require me to be so authoritative!! Haha!!) except that I can't push myself to do something that I don't believe in and feel is fundamentally flawed. I have got better at striking a balance, and I think now what is important for me is to define my role in myself and try not to shut myself off so much which is what I tend to do.

I've not been on this thread very long, so it probably wouldn't take you too long to trudge back and find out my background, but here it is in a nutshell:

I have DS1 (aged 4.8), DS2 (who will be 3 this weekend) and I'm 28wks pregnant with DC3.

I'd describe my parenting style as loving but will very clear boundaries. I'm consististent and fairly strict. Hubby on the other hand is flexible with his boundaries. For example, one day he'll rough house and let the boys climb all over him, pretending to be a dinosaur or horse and the next day (if he's tired/stressed) he gets angry if they try and climb all over him. Or I'll tell them there's no pudding until they've eaten their meal. They'll cry and fuss and hubby will just give in and give them what they want because he doesn't want them to "go hungry"

I have a short temper and the little things bother me. Not just with the kids, with hubby too. And I worry sometimes that I pester and nag them too much when I should just let them be children.

A lot of my anger and resentment comes from the fact that I seem to do 90% of the parenting, cooking and housework (as well as working part-time). I AM a control freak, and love to be busy. HOWEVER, a little acknowledgement goes a very long way with me.

Anyway, must dash. Will catch up some more later and respond to others.

Similar parenting style to me I think mandbaby but I need to work on the consistency. Also the 90% parenting rang many bells!

I have a DS (just 6) and a DD (2.5) - both bright, articulate, strong willed children! No easy second child here! DS has been v good yesterday and this morning so looks like trip threat worked and he will be going - phew!

Jigglebum That's great news that DS's behaviour has been good for the last day or so. My advice would be to just let him go on the trip now (even if his behaviour does worsen this evening). Just say to him, I noticed how great you were and how you did everything mummy asked on Sunday, so I'm going to let you go".

After reading "Stop Yelling, Start Connecting" and half of "Calmer Parent, Happy Child" I'm learning that (with my kids anyway) that if you dwell on the negative, so will they. Tell them they're naughty, and they live up to it.

Dreaming As someone else said, you're braver than I am taking 3 little ones on balance bikes out alone. I don't like going anywhere with just 2 of mine as they can sometimes dash off in different directions and are hopeless at taking instruction when they're excited about an activity - unless, of course, I yell! I think you handled it really well given the circumstances and it's always worse (and therefore more embarrassing) when it's someone else's child involved because there is that pressure to deal with it how THEY see fit also. How did your friend react?

I read this the other day and it really chimed with me. www.renegademothering.com/2014/06/25/letter-to-arlo/

The author has just had her fourth child and she writes that being a parent of a newborn is the only bit that she feels she gets almost 100% right. I really really identified with it, I know some people find the newborn bit hellish and/or hard but I just love it, it's the one time where I feel like I get everything right just by following my instinct. It is everything after which has been hard. There is a part in the article where she writes Thank you for this time of meeting all your needs, pretty much all the time, or at least knowing how, more or less, to do so, without my personality flaws getting in the way. and that is just totally me.

I love being a mother, I possibly love the idea more than the reality but it is a dream for me. I'm just always let down by myself and my intentions don't match up with what actually happens and then I'm not very good at dealing with that bit itself either.

Bertiebotts wow, that's quite true of me too. Must admit, with DS1, I struggled when he was a baby. He had very bad reflux, never slept (unless on my chest) and was generally a very unhappy baby. At 4 months old, I took him to a craneal osteopath who basically "cured" him overnight and from that day onwards he was a different baby - much happier, content and a good sleeper.

But with DS2 (who was a fab baby) I took it all in my stride, and definitely find things get harder the older they get. I now have newborn photographs stuck all over the house in random places to remind me how vulnerable and perfect they once were (and still are).

Some good news in our house: Things are definitely rubbing off on DH. Last night, DS1 was in a full on tantrum about what to wear for bed. (I suggested he put a t-shirt on because it was a warm evening, but he wanted to wear something else). He was getting quite angry/upset and jabbed his arms out to point at both me and DH. Unfortunately, DH was a little closer to him than he must've realised and his finger when straight in his eye. Holding his eye in pain, DH muttered to me with a smile in his voice "are you sure I can't yell and smack his bum for that?" A month ago, he definitely would have. Perhaps if I hadn't been in the room also, he may have. But, hey, baby steps. I'm cool with that. As long as we're both working towards a calmer house, I'm sure hope we will get calmer children.

I just want my children to remember their childhood as being full of laughing, listening, talking, doing and cuddling. Not yelling, smacking, punishments and threats of punishments. Who doesn't, really?!

Don't get me wrong, I'm still yelling occasionally, but probably 80% less than I was. As I'm sure every home is that has more than one child, sometimes the noise is so loud that you just have to shout just to be heard. And unfortunately, I can't shout without sounding angry. When I remember, I try and clap first to get their attention if the noise is so loud. (Perhaps I should try a whistle like the Captain in the Sound of Music?)

How interesting to see everyone's 'parenting style'
bertie you have a very similar philosophy to me! but I feel I must take you to task on something. [stern face that mn doesn't do in emoticon] look at your balanced and understanding opinion of your DH, and your acknowledgement that your son is not expected to be instantly 'obedient'. They are allowed to be human.... But you describe yourself as 'lazy' 'undisciplined' 'flaky' 'emotionally unstable'. You are a human being and not a robot. Don't expect to be perfect all the time, no one can be.
"Good enough" is plenty good enough!!
I think it does children no harm to know that parents feel tired frustrated angry sad and that they can express those feelings.
mandbaby I once saw a woman stand at a park gate and do a sort of gentle owl call. Her three children came running to her......instantly! I wanted to follow her home and site a hidden camera. Mine at the time often left the park in a state of refusal tucked under an arm or encouraged firmly into a pushchair...
The poke in the eye made me chuckle, you sound like you are really 'getting the hang of it' and your hubby is getting there too.

Hi everyone, it's a bit bonkers here at the moment so not keeping up with the thread as well as I was before.

Bertie , I discovered renegademothering recently too. There's a lot there that rings very true with me.

mandbaby , great to hear you sounding more positive

Hi jiggle (I have to admit that the post on how we all picture posters always pops back into my head when I see you, along with the red spotty pants!! They are always red with white spots, I have no idea why....)

Welcome, dreaming (me too. I would LOVE a full nights sleep).

My two are completely insane again at the moment when they're together. DD has upped the tantrums yet again, she's nothing if not creative (and very, VERY noisy). She even has tantrums in her sleep. Sometimes it's just a 'NO!' and sometimes it's glazed eyes and a full scale meltdown. I find them quite scary, actually.

DS has calmed down a lot but when DD gets riled up, you can guarantee it will flick his switch and he'll either start hitting out or get completely hyper.

It's nearly the summer holidays!

The good news is that I do have lots of strategies under my belt now to deal with the madness.

The bad news is that sometimes there is SO much madness I'd rather like to run away. The frustration level is so immense at times I can feel my brain fizzing. Ping.

Sometimes it all gets too much and I turn back into shouty, glowering mum and I hate that. It doesn't actually have any positive impact on behaviour at all.

Thanks Letsgo, the problem is that I am not really meeting my own minimum standards a lot of the time and I definitely haven't in the past. Actually at the moment I'm doing a lot better :)

Ah, yes, my parenting rarely hits my standards. though today was good. It was nearly very good but I'm still on bedtime and snapped- actually, more like a shout- 'shut up' at dt1 from my place by his bed as he whinged enough to unsettle dt2 from next door so now dt2 is wide awake and won't stay in bed (though the kids goodness dd and dt1 asleep) . Plus not helped by me losing dt2 beloved comforter. I have tracked it down at the gym where dd had a swimming lesson today. Will be collecting as soon as he's gone to sleep and I've had tea!

I'm a bit sad as she sank under he water last week and was clearly tense and frightened today. I'd hoped shed shrug it off and I'm worried they'll frighten her more carrying on. But at least I managed to stay calm and I just let her get out early and didn't make her go back in.

I try to be as gentle as possible with the dc. I try not to shout. Every time I fail I kind of write the day off and it can just get worse. things are mikes better recently but still far from great. But I am pleased I had them 7:30am-7pm with no adult company bar sitting by another mum at swimming and didn't shout til bedtime . Long solo days test me. The thing that often sends me over the edge is do coming home when I anticipate things getting easier. He often doesn't do what I think he should though, him not being a mind reader and all, so that means I'm actually more likely to shout or snap with him around

My housework "minimum standards" are Very low.
dreaming rather than writing the day off after a shouting session could you find a way to draw a line under the event and turn it round to a fresh start instead?
I like that both me and Hubby work and kind of share the 'being at home for the kids and cooking tea' responsibilities. It means we both know what it is like to try and cook a meal with hungry grumpy children, and what it is like to come home from a long working day into that situation. It means we both have realistic expectations of the other person (usually!)

Do any of you go to toddler groups? mandbabe I think you said not in your homework didn't you? It might be worth getting brave and trying out a few. You will soon have 3 children very young and will want all the RL support you can get. They can be an absolute lifesaver, a good group that is. I met my best friend (and made many other friends) at a toddler group around 25 yrs ago. With my younger ones I went to a few different groups and although I didn't meet like minded people like I had before, the mornings themselves were brill for the kids and for me.

What do others do when their DCs don't want to go to bed/sleep as this is my worst time of the day? I am itching for some time without their constant demands and DD can be a right pain. I lost it with her tonight and instead of just doing rapid return I smacked her hand and practically lobbed her back into the cot three times before she got it and that was after 9pm so I had already been up and down countless times. I would not mind so much if she sat and read or played quietly but she is a complete monkey - climbs up on the window sill (via the radiator so cant move anything) and that scares me (though window obviously locked), stands and shouts at her gate on her door, keeping DS awake etc etc etc. DS also did not sleep for ages but at least he stays in bed and always has. She is fine if she has had no sleep in the day as she is so tired but even 10 mins in the day (which often happens in the car) and she is a nightmare.

Tonight was made worse by DH disappearing out the door at 530 for a duty night at his sailing club, which he had not told me about so I had to take DD with me the DSs swimming lesson so I was already pissed off before the bedtime routine began!

I meant to say before too - 3 toddlers on balance bikes - wow!! When I have two out on their bikes I am a nervous wreck and one of mine is 6!

Oh sympathies, the not going to bed is soooooo frustrating. Was the most frustrating thing for me in the past. Happily he will stay in his room now!

At that age DS was in a single bed and I used to sit/lie with him until he was asleep. Not ideal but it did work and was far quicker and less stressful to sit there for an hour or so reading/MNing/playing a game on my phone on silent than go up and down the stairs, get halfway through things, shout, scream, want to throw him back in bed etc. After I learned his sleep cues and stuck religiously to the routine it got down to about 20 minutes which was perfect. The deal is you only stay in there if they lie down quietly. Hmm, although DS was probably a bit older when I was explaining deals to him - think I still breastfed to sleep at 2.5. But she might get it, maybe just go "back" a stage if she's not lying down properly, so start with a really involved level of "being there" - either lying down pretending to be asleep next to her, or sitting right next to the bed rubbing her back or something, and then if she's sitting up, talking etc then you lie her down and repeat "Sssssssh sleepytime now" or something. Just one of those baby techniques.

It is awful when they're dropping naps though. Can you try and work around not using the car - I found if DS was dropping off in the pushchair he soon woke up when I made him walk Harder to keep them awake in a car. Maybe air con on max and lots of involved singing??

Jigglebum I can completely identify with the bedtime being the worst time of your day. It's mine too, and definitely when I'm at my most grumpy with them. Thankfully, my boys have always been fairly good in the going-to-bed department but even the slightest procrastination from them at bedtime has me seething. I turn into the Incredible Hulk because I'm just so desperate for them to be in bed, quiet, and to finally get some "me" time.

My advice would be to start the routine that little bit earlier, so by the time you've been through all their delaying tactics, it's still within your permissable "awake" time and doesn't eat into your time. In the last few months, DS2 has been messing about a lot more, demanding more stories, climbing out of bed after lights are out and asking for different cuddly toys, extra kisses, a drink of water, etc. So now we run the bath and start the whole routine at least 20 minutes earlier to allow for all of this so, fingers crossed, he's still settled by 7pm.

But even doing this, I still find myself getting worked up and snappy with them if they make silly demands or mess around and refuse to be calm as 7pm approaches. I'm glad I'm not the only one!

(Both my boys still get put to bed by 7pm which, to be honest, is probably a bit too early - especially for DS1. But even if we have a late night for whatever reason, they're still up at the same time (6.30am) so 7pm it is.

letsgoforawalk I've taken your advice and made some enquiries into local toddler groups. There is a rhymetime at the local library on one of my days off, so I'm going to make the effort and go to that. And I've also made enquiries about a group at our local primary school (which DS1 will start anyway in September) but like you said, with DC3 on the way, I think it's going to be even more important to get out of the house, meet new people and to give DS2 some structured time.

This is gonna make me sound really sad, but I don't actually have any "mum" friends in RL. We moved home two years ago, and since then there isn't really anybody who's also a mum that I'm close to I have a very good friend who can't have children (she's our boys Godmother) but we don't see each other more than every couple of months, so it's hard for her to identify what I go through. I have acqaintances, but no circle of friends, and certainly no best friend.

Since reading the parenting books I've already mentioned (which help to identify some of the roots of why we get angry) I am starting to realise that a good friend whom I could open up to would probably help relieve some of my tension. I love my DH very much, but he can be a very difficult man to live with at times. Just having someone whom I can trust to offload my gripes about life at home would possibly stop me nagging/moaning and taking it out on DH and the kids.

Good idea to start the bed time earlier definitely -as then if it takes longer it is time I would have been with her anyway. I do start early if she is really tired but it makes real sense to start earlier anyway so she is still in bed by 730. Sometimes the obvious things just need someone else to point them out! Car is difficult as it is usually the school run she falls asleep on and I have to drive there.

mandbaby the mums at our school gate are really nice mostly so you might find you find some new friends there. Other groups can be good too for that, though sometimes you do need to persevere and get your face known.

I've also not been on the thread long, I have DS1 6 and DS2 3.

I definitely identify with the people who find babies easier, I'm great at cuddling, feeding, general 100% care. I've got a bit lost since they've got to the stage where they start saying they don't want cuddles. My parenting style worked fine when they needed everything doing for them, I think I struggle with giving them more independence, both were bolters and road safety etc have been issues, so I'd rather strap them into a buggy, than negotiate, set appropriate boundaries and enforce them (just one example but I think it applies to me a lot). I want to have a gentle parenting style, but when the DSs fail to respond to it, I'm not very good at appropriate sanctions and I'm too likely to descend straight into screeching, inappropriate sanctions.

I was thinking the other day I sometimes expect too much from DS1, I think a 6yo should be grown up enough to handle their emotions better and be a bit more mature. Recently the reward at school, for class meeting behaviour targets, was a teddy bear picnic and I had a sudden moment of realising how little they are, none of them are at an age yet where they have any inhibitions about carrying teddy bears in front of their classmates and it made me realise perhaps I expect too much maturity already. Not that it's always so easy to translate from realising that, to changing my behaviour accordingly.

mandbaby - definitely try toddler groups, it makes such a difference when you're having a rubbish day and someone else says they are too. Even if the first one you go to, you don't immediately gel with people, keep trying. Some groups are better than others, there's one I go to where everyone chats, so no-one ever has the lost newbie feeling, others where people are stand-offish. Worth persevering though.

Yes I have to remind myself that my DS isn't all that grown up really. I think at this age they're starting to get interested in more grown up things and become more aware so it's easy to think they're so big but they're not really. When I catch myself thinking DS is grown up I try to remember that when I was 11 or 12 I thought six year olds were babies.

Mandbaby I don't really have any close mum friends. I was 20 when I had DS and none of my friends from school have children, I lost touch with all of them (you find out who your friends are fast when everyone goes to uni and you get left behind). I did make some friends at the sure start group, but it was on 4 days a week and I used to go every day. Again lost touch with them when I moved, though. The longest lasting friends I made were through the La Leche League group which is quite specific, I think it just helped to have one thing in common other than the fact we had children - in this case slight hippy leanings. There was a group run at DS' school which was good and I was getting to know people there. I think it's just almost a case of perseverance - since we've moved I've been going to expat things and I've met people but there's nobody I feel is a really close friend yet. I suppose it's early days. But I am finding it's really important to say yes to everything possible, to volunteer for as much as possible, to get to every event going. Just by numbers you'll eventually meet someone you click with and until that point it's about forging a connection which might feel inauthentic at first. Try to remember one thing about everyone that you meet and then you'll have a conversation starter next time.

And if you ever get an invite to a girls' night out/in TAKE IT with both hands. It is wonderful to have a female only supportive space, which it will end up being if any alcohol is involved at all.