Does anyone else want to come and be a better parent with me?

[AnotherMonkey]

I've just deleted my original post in an attempt to be more positive.

I'm very low tonight, both of mine (4.5 and nearly 2) are pushing me so far beyond my limits at the moment.

So instead of posting my rant of misery, I wondered if anyone felt like joining me in choosing one thing to be less crap at at time?

Tomorrow, I am going to begin by taking it all less seriously. I'm going to try really really hard not to shout at all (this is difficult because DS is deaf at the moment and often does things which are not safe or bloody annoying but I'm going to find ways around it if I can). Essentially I'm going to try to take a step back and instead of letting poor behaviour bring me down, I'm going to try to isolate problems so that they can be dealt with. I might even make a list. I like lists.

(This evening was so bad I never want to see my neighbours again. I'm quiet, smart and even tempered in real life. Tonight our house must have sounded like a war zone. Or the screaming toddler equivalent. It's shit and it has to change).

Oh the other day was just it was my birthday and the entire day all I got from DS was attitude, tantrums (at nearly 6!!) and rudeness. He ended up going to bed sobbing because DH took a game off him for an entire week, and DH and I had a "discussion", in his earshot because there is nowhere which is out of his earshot, about whether this was acceptable (because DH worded it as "I'm deleting this game" and I said that was unfair, I thought he meant his saved games and I really think that's over the top and mean, turned out he meant the game itself, not the saves.)

I also have come to disagree with the "all bad behaviour is looking for connection" thing. Sometimes it's not. Sometimes it's just bad impulse control, or immature thinking, or genuine amusement, or reaction to some other external stress/situation or actually sometimes they're just crying out for boundaries.

Having said that I don't think 2 days is long enough to see it take effect. But if you feel generally like your connection is good then it's probably worth looking at the other ideas. It's really hard if you can't trust your DH alone with them for a long time. Big burden on you. Have you told him bluntly that you need empathy when you're upset too?

It is interesting hearing other people's views. Sometimes you can read a book and convince yourself that it's 100% accurate and everything in it must be followed to a tee. However, I have noticed that on days where I do have a strong connection with DS2, he is generally more compliant. On Saturday, he was so loving and kissy and cuddly and I had no bad behaviour from him at all, all day. DS1 was the same on Thursday and Friday - very cuddly, no bad behaviour, and very compliant.

Yesterday, they were both very troublesome and it was VERY hard not to lose it with them.

This morning, I DID shout. At DS2. He just refused to have his teeth brush and time was ticking on. I tried all the techniques I've learnt and nothing was working, so in the end I just had to get hold of him, lie him down, and force him to have his teeth brushed. . Afterwards, DS1 cuddled him and gave me the dirtiest of looks and said to me "Where has nice mummy gone?" I felt mortified.

Any tips for this tricky stage?

I've started to read How To Talk again so I'm limiting myself, one chapter, wait for opportunity to try it out, only then can I "advance"

Not sure because DS sometimes blurts out something like "You're a mean mummy, what kind of mum hurts her kid on purpose" when my "hurting him" has been maybe carrying him to his room out of necessity, doing it in the least hurting way possible but if he's resisting it, then it's not going to be the most comfortable thing in his life? I find it hard because it pushes my fear button that I really am a terrible parent. Obviously I haven't communicated that to him but he must pick up on some level that that it gets to me, because he's stopped saying "I hate you" (which has never bothered me) and uses this kind of thing more often. I find it especially upsetting/embarrassing in public, problem is he does the same thing to DH and it does make me panic that DH is grabbing him harder than he should be even though he says he isn't, and I do trust him. But I worry what strangers will think! He has this really desolate wail of "You 'urt meeeee!" it really upsets me because I haven't tried to hurt him, I've really really restrained my instinct which is to hurt him and he gets really upset about it and I worry I've done something wrong.

I got half way through (or may have even finished?) "how to talk so kids will listen..." but it was some time ago now (over a year ago). Maybe time to pick it up again.

I've also just ordered "When your kids push your buttons" which has good reviews.

I just have such a short fuse when it comes to my family, but will tolerate all sorts of shit at work or from friends, and I'm always biting my tongue. I just wish I could stand up for myself more at work and calm it down a notch at home. Some things really shouldn't bother me, but they do.

I love when your kids push your buttons. That's the best one I've read so far.

Oh, I forgot to say, that I have told DH that I do need empathy when upset, but all he ever says is that by doing that (giving a hug, etc) it will make me worse. Totally NOT true and completely what I need, but nothing changes.

He's the same if I'm ill, in pain, etc. All I want is a hug or a "I understand babe, I'm here" and he never gives it. He rarely gives it to our boys either. I think he sees crying as a weakness, and if they fall over or get hurt play-fighting with each other, he will look to find blame rather than giving a cuddle, etc.

He IS a cuddly dad, and constantly tells them he loves them, but when they REALLY need it - when upset or in pain, he shys away.

The biggest thing I've learnt in the last few weeks is to give empathy to an upset or angry child, and not to punish or get angry for their (as yet) inability to control those feelings.

Whilst I have noticed that hubby HAS been yelling less and smacking far less, he doesn't empathise at all.

[Sad] I'm mortified. I lost it big time with DS2 this evening. He sneaked upstairs, got into my make-up, unscrewed my mascara and drew all over himself with it. I'm ashamed to say that writing this it actually sounds quite funny and in fact it was totally my own fault (I'd left my make-up bag on the stairs) but I yelled at him so much he was crying his eyes out and looked terrified of me :( I cried myself afterwards and apologised to him for getting so cross and, bless him, he apologised to me for what he did. My heart was breaking :( He was a total Angel for the rest off the evening, getting ready for bed and brushing teeth without having to ask. I feel truly awful though. Possibly the worst I've ever felt as a mother. All time low :(

Me again :-) still reading through previous posts but by gum this thread is popular I'm not even half way! But it makes me feel a bit better that there are other parents out there just like us.
I've been watching my shouting or trying to control it more and shout less but sometimes it's so difficult and my voice comes out as a terrible menacing whisper which I hate because I think it's worse!! Or maybe I think it's worse because my kids are so uused to me shouting that they don't pay any attention to my shouting, sometimes they even laugh at me shouting which makes me even madder!! That's usually when my tears of complete frustration come! And then I shout even more.
I've looked up orange rhino and ahaparenting
, will have to make time to read both And the rest of the posts on this thread! Lots of tips here too!

Mandbaby, I've no advice really just to tell u that you're not alone, I've shouted and made dc cry and then Id cry because I over reacted and we'd all be upset! Worst I ever felt was when ds cried to me he was sad after I had shouted at him

Don't worry! You apologised, he realised he'd pushed it and stepped right back. Not amove to adopt in everyday pparenting but no bad thing, I don't think? Please don't beat yourself up about it.

I shouted at ds yesterday because he hit me repeatedly and hard with a soft toy that he didnt realise had a thick metal key clip on it. I was seeing stars! Of course from my point of view he just suddenly attacked me with a hard object! I shouted "What the hell are you doing? Are you ridiculously stupid?" As DH sort of picked him up and dragged him off me. I felt bad when I realised he actually hadn't realised there was a hard bit on the toy but my god it was a total shock and I felt awful when I realised what I'd said,at rthe time I was struggling to find words which weren't worse :( need to work on my filter I think. FWIW i don't feel bad for shouting (i think its a legitimate response to pain!) But more for the stupid comment.

Right, I've got a coffee and decided to do some "homework"

Thanks Bertie and CreamandSugar. Yes, I think I would have shouted after being hit with a toy too! But I can see why you would feel bad at the "stupid" comment, but a lot of us say things in the heat of the moment that we regret. My DH often calls our boys names that would offend or hurt in a moment of anger. Although I can get very loud and angry at the smallest of things, using words as a weapon is, thankfully, something I've never really done all through my life. Often hubby will call one of our boys an "idiot" (and has even said worse words than this) and I can't bear it as I really worry it will affect them worse than the shouting.

Just read this back and it sounds like I'm having a go at you. I promise I'm not! I actually wish I could control my anger as well as I can the words I choose when I'm in that rage. I mean, come on, yelling in the face of a boy who's not even three because he helped himself to mascara that I'd left within his reach. And not even stopping when tears were streaming down his face. He must've thought I was a monster.

I finished my book on Sunday night and have learnt so much - but now I just have to put it in to practice at all the 'right' times: I know that toddlers can't help their tantrums but even when they have one I still can't seem to control my reaction to it very well. This morning, we pulled up outside nursery and DS2 took his own seatbelt off (when the car was parked) then unclicked DS1's seatbelt too. DS1 went into meltdown because he wanted to do it himself. Everything I've read has taught me that I SHOULD have said "I see you're sad and angry because you wanted to do that yourself, didn't you". But what I DID say was "stop being silly, you can just do it yourself later when we come home". The meltdown continued and I ended up just grabbing hold of his hand and marching into the nursery with an upset 4 year old.

Hubby called me a hypocrite last night because he reckons I'm quick to tell him when he starts yelling at the boys but end up yelling at them myself. I replied that I wasn't a hypocrite because I'm only too aware of my faults - but at least I know that I'm a purple minion a lot of the time and AM trying to rectify it. My "when kids push your buttons..." book has arrived now, and I'll be reading it with interest when my boys are in bed tonight.

Onwards and upwards....!

No no, it's fine. I agree that name calling/labelling them stupid or something is awful and can be really damaging. It's not something I usually do but I was just really shocked and surprised that he had done that!

The Buttons book I found very helpful and good about controlling our own reactions, but in addition it sounds like you're under a lot of stress with DH etc as well.

Remember the chocolate cake comment! And also, don't try and change a million things at once. Pick one thing (like empathising). If you're finding that you know how you want to react but in the moment you don't, then forget the thing you wanted to change and try to temper this reaction in a different way instead. The book helps with that I think.

To be honest, I think you're dead right about the DH comment.

I think he does, without meaning to, put an additional pressure on how I'm feeling and how I deal with things.

Last night, when shouting at DS2, I was angry at myself for losing it, angry at DH for not pulling me out of it and calming me down, and angry at the vicious circle I'd got myself into. The more I shouted, the angrier at MYSELF I was, and so the more I shouted. Hubby was practically laughing at me and mocking me in the background while it was all kicking off. If it had been the other way around, I would have tried to calmly diffuse the situation and calm DH down. But when it's me shouting, he seems (just my observation, I could be wrong) to glory in the fact that I've lost it. Hence the "You're a hypocrite" comment to me. But I've never claimed to be perfect or always calm and completely in control. In fact, these things are the LAST thing I am! But I AM willing and trying to change. I'm not sure he is.

That sounds like a really difficult situation.

Have done my "homework" I'm going to do the analysis/taking one thing from one category to another later (prob later in the week) as I am steeling myself for swimming later. And also have to make a picnic. And pack towels and stuff. But I want to watch a TV programme before I have to pick the boys up!

Oh crap and I forgot to post it

1. What makes you feel guilty.
Okay at the moment:

• Food - our diet is quite unhealthy and often DS eats in front of the TV. I'm guilty of giving him something unhealthy that I know he likes rather than going through a battle to get him to try new foods.
• I am not active enough, I spend too much time on the computer feeling "tired" and not really engaging with life in general. DS gets bored and it's not good for me either. I really struggle to socialise even though I love socialising.
• Taking out other feelings (e.g. being annoyed about something else, feeling down, feeling worried/anxious about things) on DS or letting them influence how I am with him.
• I can be quite dismissive and easily irritated when he's just being a child. Like when he has to touch and fiddle with every little thing or turn everything into a game. That's a really lovely positive attribute and I just get annoyed with it.
• I am less patient (related to last point) and less inclusive of him whereas when he was younger I was really keen to get him into doing everything with me.

2. What do you enjoy. What's the best time you have with your children?

• When I'm in the mood to play one of the silly games and we play it (I just don't want to do it all the time :/ )
• "Home education" type stuff, although he is in kindergarten. I really wanted to do home ed with him but now he's older I've realised I wouldn't be very good at it because of mainly the issues mentioned in 1.
• Taking photos. Discovering who he is and finding out things about him.
• When I see him playing with other children (although less so one particular friend who I'm struggling with at the moment because the other kid is very "spirited")
• When DH is there too and we're doing stuff as the three of us.
• New things. I get bored doing the same things again and again which is of course what a huge chunk of time with children is, and children's interests at this age.

3. What don't you enjoy but do because you feel you should? Or maybe feel guilty because you don't do enough?

• Should do more outside play. Although I enjoyed playing "football" with him the other day even though I didn't think I would. So have to do that more.
• Playing board games.
• Reading to him
• Baths
• Playing on the playstation which is what he always wants to do
• Playing pretend games

4. What things help you parent at your best

• Being in a new place
• Enough rest
• Enough food
• More energy (exercise?)
• Generally being relaxed and unstressed. Feeling on top of things and capable.

Ok, here's my homework. (Damn you, Bertiebotts, I should be working!!)

1. What makes you feel guilty?

• Being snappy and intolerant of their child-isms: sweating the silly, "little" things.
• Although I love my children more than life itself and would die protecting them, sometimes I don't "like" them very much - especially if they're acting up, misbehaving, being belligerent, etc.
• Not having the energy to get down on the floor and play with them more: Not wanting to read a book when they ask, or to help re-build the train set, or get out a board game or get the paint out when they ask
• Housework. I love to have a clean, organised, tidy home and I feel in-control and useful doing it. Often, I will choose to do this rather than indulging myself in my children.
• Giving them quick, unhealthy meals a couple of times a week because I can't face a battle of offering them something new/something I know they don't like, or because I'm too tired (and too pregnant) to go to the supermarket to get the things I need to make a nice, healthy meal, or to stand there and cook it.
• Watching the clock until bedtime. And then 10 minutes after they've fallen asleep, wishing that I hadn't rushed them off to bed quite so quickly, and reflecting on things that I should have said/done differently that day.
• Hating the monotony and routine: The "Groundhog Day" effect.
• Not attending groups. I've never been to a mums and toddlers group with my boys because of my own insecurities at walking into a new place where, perhaps, everyone else already knows each other and I will feel like the newbie or outsider, or feel that I or my children are being judged because of their behaviour or my inability to control them.

2. What do you enjoy. What's the best time you have with your children?

• Days out: Theme parks, museums, bowling, a picnic in the park, going to the local farm. (Regrettably, it's normally things that involve lots of money!)
• Teaching my DS1 to read. He loves to learn, and I love teaching him and seeing him learn. (However, when he finds things difficult, he then goes into meltdown, I get pushy, and it can end with both of us feeling frustrated.)
• Chatting with my children. Harder with DS2 because of his age, but when DS1 gets talking about a topic he loves (trains, space, how the body works) or even just when he chats about his day at nursery, I could talk for hours. (I suppose these moments are rare because after a few minutes, he wants to go and do something else, or DS1 interrupts with something.)
• Cuddling them (is this answer allowed?!)
• "One-to-one" time. They're angels when they're apart and have 100% of my time and attention. (Unfortunately, this is quite rare).

3. What don't you enjoy but do because you feel you should? Or maybe feel guilty because you don't do enough?

• Painting, play doh, baking or other "messy", creative and explorative play. We might do these sorts of activities once or twice a month, even though they'd probably like to do it every day. The control freak and tidy-freak in me can't bear the mess or them doing it "wrong" (e.g. eggshells in the cake mix, paint splashed up the wall, play-doh getting eaten) or because I know that the activity will sometimes only last 5 minutes with me then spending a further 30 minutes tidying up afterwards.
• Bedtime stories. I rush through them, often having to read 3, 4 or even 5 every night - usually the same ones too.
• Board games or anything that involves two players: DS1 hates to lose, and so I will avoid competitive games for fear of a tantrum.
• Swimming. My boys LOVE it. I detest the cold water.

4. What things help you parent at your best

• Getting enough sleep (but being pregnant, only 20 hours a day is enough!)
• Getting enough "me" time.
• Getting on well with DH. When he's in a good mood and enjoying parenting, I do too. When he's tense (either because of work or because the kids are being difficult) it rubs off on me and I find myself feeling more tense and my anger comes out on the kids.
• Feeling supported and appreciated. If my DH acknowledges what I'm doing, it spurs me on to keep doing it and doing it better.
• Structured time, or planning in advance. The days when we wake up and nothing is planned for the day, it's all too easy to do nothing. Boredom and irritability then sets in - mainly with me. I'm a Virgo - I love to plan, make lists, and be organised.
• Getting enough "us" time. A meal (or, even better, a day) out with just DH. Makes me love my hubby, miss my kids and realise how great life really is.

I've just thought of another for Number 4: When my husband gives his family his full attention.

For half of the day, he has his nose stuck in his mobile phone: checking facebook, answering work emails (which I know can't be avoided), reading the news, checking the footie scores. And like tonight, between 5pm and 7pm when England are playing, the boys and I can expect zero interaction with him. It infuriates the hell out of me. He knows it too. I've discussed his mobile phone with him in the past, but the response I get is along the lines of it being none of my business how much he's on his phone, and I HONESTLY don't think he thinks he's on it that much. The football, I can sort of tolerate. It's only once every 4 years and football is and always has been a huge part of his life (he used to play for a club, and then worked for it as a coach before retraining to become a teacher). But the mobile phone thing really bugs me. I suppose I should be grateful that he's not stuck on an x-box or something, like so many other men his age are. His mobile is his biggest vice, and my biggest bugbear.

Without wanting to sound negative, or without wanting to paint my marriage as being problematic (as I don't feel that it is), most of my impatience, anger and intolerance boils down to the above. That want and need for my husband to give his family his undivided attention.

Mine and DH's biggest problem is not being able to communicate very well about things that are bothering us. We get on great, we laugh, we love each other, we still "click". But when it comes to the need to communicate to improve things (things that he will see as a criticism) we don't do because of my fear of it escalating into an argument. I'm only able to communicate matters like this in a subtle way (or by jokingly nagging).

I feel that he's very much a "well, this is me, take me or leave me" sort of guy.

Waaah I had to tell DS no swimming today. We were picking his friend up from kindergarten and I said to DS that swimming was dependent on his behaviour (the other child's mum was going to meet us at the park by the pool).

He lost 3 strikes and a super super super last chance and I was reeeeeally tempted to go back on it because he started being really good towards the end but really I had to say no. I was dreading it and it was heartbreaking but after he got over the huge trauma, we had a really good chat. Now he's gone for a lie down. Better make sure he's not asleep :/

Bertie I think you did the right thing not going swimming. Kids need boundaries and consistency. If you make a threat, carry it out, otherwise they know that they can always push those boundaries.

Another fraught evening for me.

This evening, I was in DS1's bedroom with both boys. DH had just gone to walk the dog. We were late having tea so skipped a bath, but I always give them a quick wash, then the rest of the routine (pyjamas, teeth, story) is the same. I'd just asked DS1 to take his glasses and clothes off while I went off to DS2's room to get his pyjamas. As I left the room, DS1 was taking his top off. Before I could even reach the other bedroom, I heard DS1 crying with pain. I rushed back in and DS2 was holding up a very heavy brio wooden bridge (I bet it weighs one pound in weight) and was about to throw it (apparently, for the second time). I yelled at him to drop it and asked DS1 what happened. He said as he was crying in pain that DS2 threw the bridge at him. I yelled at DS2 "you silly boy - look what you've done" and words to that effect. I went to grab him and was just about to march him out of the room but stopped myself. For the second time in two days I made him cry his eyes out. I calmed down pretty quickly and stopped shouting and followed the advice that I'd read (about not sending to the naughty step, which I would definitely have done a week or more ago). Instead, I asked calmly what had made him so mad that he wanted to hurt his brother. He just sobbed "I don't know". I told him that we didn't throw things because people can get hurt. I reinforced the point that his brother was badly hurt and felt that was punishment enough - seeing the hurt he'd caused from his own actions, and living with the guilt of that.

When DH got in from walking the dog he further went mad at DS2 (it wasn't needed, I didn't think. He'd been told off for his behaviour and had cried and apologised to his brother).

It turned out that DS1 had been cut - just behind his ear, under his hairline. He was so lucky it didn't catch him in his temple or his face. I'm very surprised he wasn't concussed as it's such a heavy and quite sharp piece of wood.

The thing is, DS2 has got a really bad habit of throwing things and generally being destructive (knocking over things that DS1 builds, etc). I don't know why he does it and when we ask him he just says he doesn't know. He's always been more of a pincher and a smacker than DS1 ever was and DH puts it down to his fiery red-head temper (Not sure I believe that myself).

When I told DH exactly what had happened and my reaction to it, once again, he had a bit of a go at me for shouting ("I thought you weren't going to yell anymore?!") I replied that it was a kneejerk reaction at seeing DS1 in so much pain (he's normally a tough little thing with a very high pain threshold). It was NOTHING to how DH would've reacted if he'd have been in the room when it happened.

What would you have all done?

So much catching up! So much homework been done! I'm very impressed!
First I must say sorry to mandbabe but the mascara decorated toddler story made me laugh. Hope it wasn't a pricey one.

You also dealt with it (the mascara incident) quite well I think. From a retrieval point of view once the shouting had stopped. The right thing to do was apologise. It created an atmosphere that enabled your little boy to do the same. And like you say everything got better after that. My current aim with tempers etc is not to let them get to the stage where everyone is separately seething in a different room. Even if my hormonal girls have been screeching at each other like banshees, if 20 mins later we are all sitting down to a meal and talking civilly then that is a successful outcome.

*bertie how tough that must have been to say 'no' to the swimming. Oh bugger is that the time? Will post more tomorrow!

Hello, could I join your thread please? i started reading at the beginning, then realised I'd never make it to the end (or not tonight) and started here on the last page. This sounds like a place for me

I have a DD who's 3 (4 in September) and twin boys who are nearly 27 months. Reading some of the homework, I feel like I could have written it. I have been guilty in the last few days of having a great day witht he children, no shouting, really proud of myself. Then DH getting home stressed, being irritated at me with something, being irritated at the dc for snatching/pushing/the usual and him going out for a walk and me losing it at a fairly minor thing with the dc when really I was angry anyway and taking it out on them (jumping onto the sofa from the sofa arm, asked to tidy up but I stayed in the kitchen to clear up a bit, them not stopping, DD getting hurt. Hardly surprising or banshee-scream-worthy)

I'm feeling low about it all as I have been trying for a few months now to stop shouting altogther and do something more effeective. Ahem. I've read 'How to talk so kids listen' 'peaceful parent happy kids' and 'toddlercalm'. I'm partway through 'sibling without rivalry' and have stalled So, erm, why have I, a grown and fairly well educated adult, not managed to modify my behaviours and parenting in this time?

And, (hope it's ok to wander in and join in) mandbaby That's exactly what I would have done. Shout. Instantly regret, Retract . And be furious with DH for joining in! I think you're right that you'd finished handling it and had done sufficient to talk to him afterwards and he'd been sorry.

Can I ask a what would you have done too? This is my epic parenting fail from yesterday. (Background is my DT1 is very difficult. He has been since birth- and also has reflux, still medicated, and is dairy, soya and egg intolerant and doesn't sleep well, currently doing a 6 week programme with a sleep consultant). Took my 3 dc out all on balance bikes to the cycle path by the river, meeting a friend with a 3 year old and 9 month old with her 3 year old on a pedal bike. My DTs are only just getting started on their bikes- they got them for their second birthday in April but literally only agreed to try them this week. DT1 was being diffiult. Wante his saddle adjusting. I tried and tried but he was so cross, inssted it wasn't right (in every position I tried) cried, wailed, put him on my back, he wailed to be carried (as in not in sling). My DD was desperate to try my the other child's pedal bike. I was trying to help her try it with one on my back. All getting hard as he was so grouchy, other DT2 happy to pootle round on his bike. I was a bit stressed keeping an eye on both mine in different places at different speeds with a wailer on my back. The girls then started climbing on a statue near the river bank. My DD then proceeded to lift her smaller lighter friend up and dump her on the ground as she wants to be in 'first' position. She had her by a leg and the back of her top and just dropped her. Friend was a bit shocked and horrified, as was I. So, what do I do? Race over, grab my DD off the statue, and tell her 'you must not hurt your friend, you must be kind to her' and basically dump my DD on the floor. (i meant to stand her up but she fell over backwards). Then instantly realised I'd told my DD off for dumping her friend on the floor by erm, dumping her on the floor?!?! So picked my DD up- crying and fighting and saying 'nooooo' and said I was sorry I'd done that, I was cross and shouldn't have but we mustn't do that to our friends. Doh. If it had been one of my boys I know I'd have been less worried but being a friends child was awful!!! I reacted badly :( What should I have done?

My DH also shouts. And points out I do (I shouted at my DD for lying om DT2's head while he cried and I asked her to get off- she was out of reach on a neighbours trampoline with him- and escaling quickly to screeching as she didn't move, was right over his head and neck and his screaming was intensifying. Argh!! DH arrived and said- 'you mustn't shout' to me...