Does anyone else want to come and be a better parent with me?

[AnotherMonkey]

I've just deleted my original post in an attempt to be more positive.

I'm very low tonight, both of mine (4.5 and nearly 2) are pushing me so far beyond my limits at the moment.

So instead of posting my rant of misery, I wondered if anyone felt like joining me in choosing one thing to be less crap at at time?

Tomorrow, I am going to begin by taking it all less seriously. I'm going to try really really hard not to shout at all (this is difficult because DS is deaf at the moment and often does things which are not safe or bloody annoying but I'm going to find ways around it if I can). Essentially I'm going to try to take a step back and instead of letting poor behaviour bring me down, I'm going to try to isolate problems so that they can be dealt with. I might even make a list. I like lists.

(This evening was so bad I never want to see my neighbours again. I'm quiet, smart and even tempered in real life. Tonight our house must have sounded like a war zone. Or the screaming toddler equivalent. It's shit and it has to change).

another OMG "...this little hand reached out to mine..." This made me weep with the beauty of it xxx

Gah, yes, it was actually in a notepad file but I didn't save it for some reason so it was just open when the computer shut down. (Actually this usually prevents it from shutting down, as it's what I used to do to foil the computer when DS was in his toddler mode of turning it off.)

Never mind though, maybe I'll combine the two into a sort of masterclass

We've got stuck with loads of attitude again I find this really hard - I tell DS something, maybe a bit irritatedly/shoutingly, he reacts with a load of defensive attitude, usually "Well, I can't even hear you, la la la, I don't know what you said." or "You made me forget how to walk. I don't know how to put my pyjamas on. I need heeeeeeelp." all said in a whiny voice. I get more irritated, he keeps on with the irritating behaviour. I've found he responds to counting to 3 at these times but has an irritating propensity to dance around saying "Or what? What happens when you get to three?" which makes me flustered and I end up threatening something I'll regret (like no bedtime story, which doesn't help because the story helps calm him down and reconnect and then he moans for ages that he can't sleep. Or no TV for the whole of tomorrow which is just ARGH I get no distraction method!) If I say something vague or threatening like "I haven't decided yet" or "You don't want to find out" then he doesn't care but is then totally distraught as though he really didn't expect me to do anything when I think of something and carry it out. Or, he'll do whatever it was I was counting to 3 for but then find some other excuse which would never usually be an issue to complain about. Argh. It's exhausting.

Another thing which is really pushing my buttons at the moment is his inability to focus on what he's actually been asked to do. Like tonight I said it was time to get his PJs on and teeth brushed, and he said "Please will you make my bed?" I said yes OK but get changed/teeth done first, then I'll do it. But no, he pissed around for 20 minutes about the bed, asking several times, ignoring that I said I'd do it after, ended up dropping down to one story (from 3) and eventually calmed down but we then had a fight over the book because he wanted to skip to the end and I was just like JUST READ IT PROPERLY FROM THE START AND STOP MESSING AROUND.

I mean, OK, he had a crappy day today - got shouted at first thing this morning when we came in to find that he had totally forgotten what he had promised over the weekend, and had been eating cereal on the sofa without a spoon, just shovelling it into his mouth with his hands which makes it go everywhere, and then DH shouted too because DS realised he could slam his door again as the foam from the side had come off, which he was doing to make the point that he didn't care that I was mad at him about the cereal.

Calmed him down and got him to kindergarten happy, but when I picked him up he was in tears because a girl had taken "his" stick which was in a pile of other sticks on the floor and he was throwing a strop about it. Talked about this on the way home and then he told me that another kid had punched him in the mouth earlier on - teacher intervened and I don't think he was hurt (the other child is about 3, he's nearly twice that!) but it had obviously upset him. Then I told him he wasn't allowed to watch TV while eating for a while because of the cereal incident and he had to hoover the cereal before he could watch any TV at all. He was gutted and kept wailing that "it's not fair" but then did it without really complaining at all, which was good. I told him I was proud of him for making it right.

DH reckons he's coming down with something. Would be a nice explanation!

Hello all. Away in Wales. Love that stream of consciousness stuff Bertie. Gives a proper glimpse into your current reality. We are working hard on sibling getting on stuff. But right now I am sitting on a picnic bench, watching the sun set with a cup of coffee (generous slug of whisky in it) looking at a fab view in a lovely bit of the world. Hubby is indoors with warring pre teen and teen
Bloody freezing out here though. Worth it for the peace and the view

Hi guys – I have missed you all! Feel like I haven’t been on here for ages and reading through the posts is making me feel like I am at home again ?
By the way, this is Nellie – I got a bit freaked out by the security breach thing and realised I should be a little more careful with things so I have changed names. Monkey will get it :) ?
Dishes – good to have you back! I have also dropped back a little into old habits but I like to think that it is with some more wisdom and a tonne more fairness thanks to this thread. I have shouted but only when I have felt it was totally unacceptable behaviour (eg hitting brother) and the reason for this is that DS1 is too smart for his own boots and I reckon he had worked out what I was trying to do and was pushing ever further to try to break me. I feel like we have a healthier balance now even despite the slight regression. It sounds like a recipe for disaster but I am sticking with it for the time being because I feel like for me the secret to success is me not losing the plot and that I have been much better at not doing (with the odd blip that still makes me feel like shit – but then that is good, I need that reminder to set me straight again sometimes). Getting through How to talk so kids will listen and it is really very good. I am working out a way to sneakily drop a copy of it on DH’s bedside so he might read it. But it's the kindle version so it’s difficult!
Bertie - so much of what you recounted is my son to a T especially the mucking about and not paying attention bit. It is very wearing indeed. I also had total meltdown into tears from him in the sandpit yesterday because another boy unintentionally chucked a load of sand at him. He burst into tears and was practically hysterical and it hadn't even gone in his eyes. I felt so sorry for the other boy who totally hadn't meant it! Such a drama queen...

We have had some friends visiting and DHs mum staying with us for the last week and a half and it has been a lot of fun. We have worn the kids out most days, the weather has been awesome (now I am beginning to feel like I moved to warmer climes!). I totally hear what you said Monkey - it is so great when you can outnumber them! I get on really well with my MIL and I am going to really miss her. She even babysat for us one night so we could go out for a proper all-nighter. It was just missing the middle of the night coffee and pancakes at an all night diner! We got told off the next morning for getting home so late (nearly 3am...) The boys really enjoyed having her here and were actually pretty good for here, with the odd episode.

DS1 really getting on better now that he is settled into school. DS2 is enrolled so roll on September! And this week we find out what kindergarten DS1 gets into - hoping that it is the one at the end of the road!

Sorry for the essay - hope you all continue to enjoy the Easter holidays. They have them earlier here (Spring break) so we just have a rather disjointed week with 2 days off for Passover and then Good Friday and Easter Monday. I only get Good Friday off though, boo.... More friends arriving in a couple of days though so should be a fun weekend. Hope the Easter Bunny is good to you all (think of me in the land of rubbish chocolate!)

searching (aka Nellie!) oo maybe I should name change too, I did change my password.

Yes I agree, I am sure we are all operating with a bigger load of fairness and kindness than we might have been earlier, even if we are finding it hard to be role model mum all the time. I wish I was that role model mum that someone described up thread. But I also wonder if her kids might be easier anyway!

Temperament seems to be a key thing. I have three sibs and we were varying degrees of 'easy' and 'difficult'. Not going to say where I fell on that spectrum! My dad says our DS is as hard or harder work than any of us were.

With your DS going hysterical when the sand got on him, it made me think of this interesting idea I read on the hand in hand parenting website. that kids process their emotional baggage when they're ready by overreacting to something and letting it all out. It was in their article on hitting (sigh) www.handinhandparenting.org/article/3-tools-to-stop-the-hitting/. They talk about the child having big feelings that need 'unpacking' when they feel safe and able, and it can be triggered by some seemingly tiny thing.

It's a bit Americany self helpy but it has made me more aware of what might be happening when DS has something scare him or make him angry, but then he does a whole lot of crying later in the day over seemingly tiny things. Could be just tiredness but it helps me feel more kindly to think he is busy processing some feelings!

Dishes - great to see you. I was feeling pretty relaxed - losing it quickly now back at home!! I've realised that a large part of my tension when at home is frustration at the things I need to do which I simply don't have time to fit in. Even loading the dishwasher is incredibly difficult when the DCs are around, so I leave most things until the evening. By the time they are settled and me and DH have eaten, I'm already set up for bed. I've done a bit of work tonight, but nothing like the amount I need to do, and I really should be asleep by now, and that constant underlying frustration and tiredness really doesn't help when dealing with challenging behaviour.

Today was our first day back and I had loads of great stuff planned to get us out and keep us in the holiday frame of mind. It did not go to plan. It's been a strange day really. There have been good bits too but DS was a complete nightmare while we were out. I got really cross and he told me he didn't like me any more :( :( We had to leave lunch early, I had a huge shout (and a silent cry) in the car, and then we left the park before I'd even got the pair of them out of the car.

Then we got home and he needed a poo, which explained a lot of it as he still gets scared about pooing when we're out and I can't believe I wasn't more proactive about this. It always shows in his behaviour. He'd mentioned it earlier in the morning.

I love both of them SO much and individually they light me up, I love their company. Even on days like today they make me belly laugh and I'll look at them and be overwhelmed by how amazing they are. But when they're together I mostly feel like I'm firefighting and not particularly well.

I read the handinhand article and it makes a lot of sense, I can think of specific situations when that would have been very effective, but in practice when you've got the other child demanding your attention at the same time, it's really really difficult. The same with Special Time - love that idea but when?

Searching (need to get used to that!), I've been humming Vonda again all day :) We got a night out too, it was great.

Letsgo, hope you're still having a relaxing time!

Bertie aargh I recognise so much of that!

Sorry about your day Monkey. It is always that much harder when you have set out to make the day work really well and you get de-railed. I am glad you had a night out when away - makes such a difference, doesn't it!?
Pretty crappy day with the boys today even though I have probably only spent about 2 hours with them at most :( This morning DS1 decided to hold on to me, my clothes, my leg etc when I was trying to leave for work, which made DS2 copy and it got to the point I had to pull him away in order to leave. Horrible way to leave the house. And then tonight I was just thinking that they actually do get on and like each other because they were playing so nicely and then BAM, DS1 kicks DS2, DS2 loses the plot and it turns into mayhem. I shouted a lot, DS1 shouted "stupid mummy" at me which was just lovely. I could have and should have dealt with the whole thing differently, so shame on me. It's been a really tough couple of days at work which have kept me awake at night and I guess I took it out on them. Tomorrow is another day, hopefully after a good block of undisturbed sleep!
I like the Special Time idea in the article and I realise that I used to do this with DS1 back home, especially first thing in the morning when he would get up early in order to see me before I left for work. As he shares with his brother now, DS2 generally wakes when he does and maybe he has been missing that time when it is just me and him with sleepy eyes and ruffled bed hair. I miss it too come to think of it...

Thanks, and you too. DS uses 'you're STUpid' when he's upset, too. I really, really hate it when leaving them in the morning is horrid.

How is the counselling going? I am thinking again about whether it might help me. Today is just me and DS and it's heaven. He is so chilled and we went to the cinema. He was singing to himself all the way from the screen to the car and in the car he said 'I don't have a bad feeling today mummy'. I tried to expand on that with him but he just got impatient. Instead of really enjoying the time, I'm grieving the loss of the relationship we now just get glimpses of. I do feel like I'm going a bit mad but I miss this so much.

I feel so much guilt. Guilt that I broke what me and DS had. Guilt that I regret having a second because I love DD so much. Guilt that I don't really meet either of their developmental or emotional needs fully most days.

I'll get back to being positive again soon!

((((Monkey)))) - I do that too and it is so easy to get trapped in there but you can't think of it like that. This is your family and you love them both more than the world - that is evident. Look forward not back. Find ways to carve out those moments with each of them. And most importantly enjoy these times even if they are fewer. I know you know all this but it is tough to see it when you feel that way. Sometimes it helps me to open up to DS1 about what I miss and reminisce about things with him. I know he remembers and he can get sad too but he normally comes out with stuff about how we all have to grow up and move on which leaves me speechless but makes total sense!
You are an amazing mum and although guilt comes free with this role, try not to let it overwhelm you.
Hope you enjoy the rest of easter. Funny you asked about counselling as I was thinking that I should have got back in touch with her weeks ago but as we've had visitors I forgot. I am still deciding whether to go back. I think there a reasons for me to do it but I'd almost like to try to sort things out in my head first, if that makes sense.

Name changed for security following Searching's example

another you are so right about theory being hard in practise. I think it is hard to follow any theory even with one DC let alone two or more. Maybe it is enough to take on the ideas we think will help and use them when possible. There is only so much time, energy, brain power and perfect timing available in our days.

I have enough trouble with one DC, I honestly don't see how I could handle more. One reason why DS will be an only, though I used to imagine two kids, even three. Reality hit and one is my mental health limit! Feels sad even though there are other reasons DS won't have sibs.

My insightful counsellor got me to realise that you can do all the 'right' things with kids and still not get the behaviour you want. There are too many variables, one being that they are complicated unique awesome human beings just like we are

She also got me to admit that it is not realistic to aim for perfection in parenting. Good enough is okay (I find that hard to accept!) and look at the main gist of parenting over time rather than a single day or incident. She looks for awareness and willingness to look for alternatives and make changes when things aren't going well. So another and searching we are in a good track just by being here and seeing all this as important. We have all made real changes I think, even when we might have been doing alright to start with.

But I still feel guilty too. It is really hard to shake the feeling that if things aren't going right it is your own fault, just for being the mum somehow? Do dads feel this much responsibility?

Btw hugs (((another))) and (((searching))) xxx

Searching and Dishes they are both such wise posts, I could feel myself taking a deep breath as I read them

The women on this thread are so awesome, it does make me feel stronger for having you all around.

It's a PMT week (another thread but am I the only one finding this worse since DCs?) and the house looks like we've been burgled and I'm behind with work after the holiday and none of these things help my inner calm

Good things.
DD is getting more determined and more charming by the day. She is so very very cute. She makes friends everywhere and can make me smile, on purpose, even when I'm trying to be firm.

DS is so much more confident than he was even 6 months ago. He's really grown up since the grommets and is so much more assertive and involved when playing with friends. I'm so proud of him.

I love reading how well everyone is doing and all the positive progress you have made.
I agree help from others is great. We had PIL recently and DD's behaviour suddenly went right up. She was my charming, cute, slightly cheeky little girl again and I have really enjoyed seeing that again.
She starts EYFS soon and just before Xmas, her day care and I had been really worried about her speech and her interaction with her peers. She was very shy and only did what others told her.
I went to get her yesterday and her helper said she had spent the entire day looking after a younger child and that it was lovely to hear her chatting away. That really made my heart sing!
I have been debating providing her with a sibling. dishes I also find one DC tough. I am not naturally patient or maternal in the traditional sense. But hearing about her behaviour makes it slightly more desirable!

Gak, behaviour of DS is so crap the last couple of days! Grumpy, anti, pushing boundaries like crazy. Could be his dad being on holiday so there are two of us to adjust to. I have been on the AHA parenting website a bit but I just want to say ARGH!!!!!!!! I hope everyone else is having a lovely Easter. Ours is okay really just the buttons being pushed constantly, argh the buttons!

Dishes - I hear you. We are doing ok but I have been shouty because DS1 pushes those damn buttons. Even DS2 does... Tonight DS2 went to bed without a story because he was being a horror but I hate doing that to him cos he's so little and he really seems so heartbroken (just listen to me... I'm such a sap!) Argh! Then I went grocery shopping after he went to bed. What a rock and roll life in the city that never sleeps...!

DS magically became happy and fun while on a visit with his DGO, maybe he is just bored to tears with his DP! It was so uplifting and destressing to see him cheerful. It made me remember how you can just enjoy your kids, I was forgetting!

DGO* meant to type DGP. Could be Dear Grand Olds I suppose !

Hi all, just checked our 'holiday wish list' from earlier post. We managed pony rides, monopoly, rock pooling, some tv, loads of playing on the beach (cricket mainly) wildlife spotting, Neolithic burial chamber spotting, lots of meals in pubs and the house had a brilliant view of the sun sinking into the sea. Kids got on well despite having to share a room. We got them so exhausted they slept like logs and couldn't be bothered to bicker. I hope you are all having a nice Easter.

Reading what people have been saying about sibs and how (I think it was monkey) they feel they have "broken" what they previously had with first borns. It is important not to feel guilty in any way about what has been lost in the relationships of first siblings after the arrival of second or subsequent. By giving them a brother or sister they are gaining so much more than they are losing. You are still here, and a wonderful lifelong potential friend is there too. It is a challenge getting them to see each other as that sometimes . Strong characters can be demanding and jealousy hard to manage. I don't have any insights, I find it a real challenge getting my very different DDs to support one another some days. It has been a lovely break and I'm glad to have another day before I have to go back to work.

Hi everyone, just had a chance to read through the thread for the first time for ages after a pretty full on but fun 2 weeks Easter break. Today is the first day I have had to myself all holiday (Dh and DCs at the in laws today) and although I have been quite productive with work and house stuff I have really missed the DCs and even DH! We have spent so much time together doing stuff and had quite a lot of fun that I am not really looking forward to school run and routine again tomorrow.

We went away for 5 days and although it was tiring and DS pushed the boundaries at times (lots of whinging and not being nice to DD) DH and I worked together and it was a lot better. The weather being so nice helped a lot too. DS can be so great but he goes into really silly mood sometimes and wont listen or do as he is told at all and it is sooo infuriating, he struggles to control his temper too at times. DD has generally been fine, though a real "mummys girl" and bedtimes away from home have been an issue. She can now gate vault out of any cot she is put in it seems - time for a bed I think.

Some shouting on my behalf and a couple of days when I felt quite stressed and swore too much (normally under my breath but not always, which is something I really am trying to stop) but generally ok. Makes me feels a little more positive about dealing with a 6 week summer holiday with them both full time now! We need to book a summer holiday - UK based I think , anyone got any good suggestions?

Hope you have all had a lovely bank holiday.

Hi All,

Dropped off the thread for a while - holiday madness, parents visiting etc. Things still very stressful though. I was hoping that the wellbeing taster session would magically make things better, which of course it didn't! Next step is telephone consultation and work out where to go from there. Have done way too much shouting, yet again, but slightly less with my parents around. Not sure if that's not wanting them to see the full horror, or the extra pairs of hands helping, or a little of both.

Jiggle - we've had lovely holidays in the Isle of Wight.

[jiggle] west wales has fab beaches and family friendly pubs. Depends where you are and what you like to do. You don't want to travel the whole length of the country with young kids in the car I expect.
[blue] hello
I've kind of given up trying to be supportive understanding Nice Mummy and started saying things like "grow a spine!" And "stop whinging and get a grip". It's quite liberating!

I find the angrier I get that my boys respond like for like!(They're 5 & 6)......I know its really hard sometimes but staying calm & positive does work. I get days when I'd just like them to do as I ask with me having to be all smiley & talk like a cbeebies presenter but sadly we seem to be a way off that yet! I went through a depressed stage & cuz I was down I was snappy so boys behaviour got worse til I was at breaking point. I thought hang on....you are intelligent & resourceful. I used to work with adults with learning disabilities so have coping strategies! But I was way too close & over emotionally involved. .....as soon as I took a step back & thought about ways to stop things from getting out of control. Well it got better REALLY quickly. Good luck x

Hi everyone! These holidays have been so busy but, apart from the slight meltdown in the middle, generally lots of fun. We have come so far!

I had a bit of a breakthrough when I realised that, somewhere amidst the no-shouting-count and worrying that there was something to worry about with DS, I was treading on eggshells. I also realised that DS is very much like his dad in that he really doesn't handle any kind of criticism well but that sometimes, these things just need to be said and understood, even if you then have to dig your heels in and deal with the fall out.

This means that sometimes, what should really just be a calm, measured conversation will end up being a big blow-up, but this isn't necessarily entirely down to me and my handling of the situation.

Hi purplemonkeyfeathers, I know just what you mean! Both about taking the step back and about feeling like a cbeebies presenter!

Letsgo that sounds like much more fun!! Impressed with your technical ability - great picture :)

Jiggle - It always amazes me how similar our children sound!

Hi blue, did you gain anything useful in the wellbeing session? I'm really interested to hear how you get on with all that.

Hi there, haven't had a chance to read whole thread yet but have had an awful shouty morning here and don't like myself very much today. Really want to make myself a better mum.

monkey it's like in 'going on a bear hunt' we can't go under it, we can't go over it we just have to go Through IT! It can get noisy and we are not responsible for how every individual in the room chooses to behave.
Hi to learner and to purple, this is a good place to find help and wise words. I strongly recommend that you find an hour or two to read the whole thread. There are links, websites and good advice aplenty.
The pic was easy, look under the message box where it says 'choose file' you just hit that and browse. if a pic is stored on whatever device you are using you can add it to the post. Zilch techy ability here!