Does anyone else want to come and be a better parent with me?

[AnotherMonkey]

I've just deleted my original post in an attempt to be more positive.

I'm very low tonight, both of mine (4.5 and nearly 2) are pushing me so far beyond my limits at the moment.

So instead of posting my rant of misery, I wondered if anyone felt like joining me in choosing one thing to be less crap at at time?

Tomorrow, I am going to begin by taking it all less seriously. I'm going to try really really hard not to shout at all (this is difficult because DS is deaf at the moment and often does things which are not safe or bloody annoying but I'm going to find ways around it if I can). Essentially I'm going to try to take a step back and instead of letting poor behaviour bring me down, I'm going to try to isolate problems so that they can be dealt with. I might even make a list. I like lists.

(This evening was so bad I never want to see my neighbours again. I'm quiet, smart and even tempered in real life. Tonight our house must have sounded like a war zone. Or the screaming toddler equivalent. It's shit and it has to change).

Letsgo stop piddling

What was your essay on? It feels so good when you finish.

Pooing, yes,really. Nurses eh?
Still not done the proofread. We are just back in after the Friday club crawl. Maybe tomorrow.

monkey your list is very good, I've just re-read you long post from earlier. Interesting about the grommets, my FIL is now terribly irritatingly deaf and doesn't like his hearing aids At all. Gtg chips here post later!

Sorry, chips eaten, FIL hates his hearing aids and finds the fact that he can now hear everything quite irritating. Deafness does alter your social behaviour because you miss out on so much so it will take a bit of adjustment I would think.

Sorry to hear it's so tough atm Nellie. Not sure you should worry about lying; it's developmentally appropriate and not a reflection of your/ child's values. This talks about it and has links but a Google of lying and child development should put your mind at ease. Sounds like your DS might be doing a bit of wish fulfilment - hoping that by saying things they will be true?

My SiL is a brilliant model.of parenting, she really liked the earlier book by the authors of "How to Talk..." She and I have had some useful convos and I look forward to many more! She's not near by, though, and her son is grown up, also we are very different personalities.

I think what good parenting looks like is kindness, most of all. Whatever boundary or strategy or rule you are enforcing, you do it with kindness. I'm saying "you" here because I'm talking to myself through writing this down. I think to achieve this you have to acknowledge that any rule or boundary you are putting down, it's your choice, your limit, your idea, no matter how much you tell yourself it's about your child's welfare or whatever. Even if it is welfare, or it is a basic rule.of.society -say no stealing, for e.g.- you're still asking someone to live by your belief system, and since little children aren't socialised or.rational or anything, it can feel to them arbitrary and unfair (even if it's the very model of fairness in your mind). So you're kind and give them as much leeway for feeling wronged when your setting your boundaries as you might when they were REALLY being hard done by. IYSWIM

I am on day 3 and have coming to the blinding insight that telling my son off.doesn't work. It doesn't stop him behaving badly either in the immediate context or.in the future. I have been operating a no-telling-off policy all week - I give information, if it doesn't stop I intervene, I am as kind as possible about his resistance to my intervention and try to redirect asap. Well it's quite interesting because what it mainly has done is improved MY temper, I have not felt The Rage for days. I wonder if I maybe have been talking myself into furies? A side effect is that now I listen to my DP do the spiel (to our THREE year old!!!) and to be frank, he just sounds like a nob!!! Ha, obvs I sounded like this mere days ago and probably will again at some point! which I'm sort of wondering how to broach with him. Or maybe I just model a better way and hope he sees it going better for me? Is that enlightened and respectful.or self-servingly non-confrontational?

Monkey FWIW the scenario you describe about the door/ misunderstanding/ head slam does not sound so far out to me, I have a 3 yr old boy, know lots of slightly older ones but also really remember my older brother? Also, empathy, real empathy takes ages - I've read 7/8 somewhere? - and oddly I think it's harder with siblings because the little one has always been a part of the backdrop, I know adult sibs who have trouble recognising each other's totality/ personhood. Know t other things you are thinking about too and I hope.it's going okay

Well if I were counting (which I am thinking I now should be) I would be back to 0 tonight unfortunately. Lost my rag with both of them at tea time. They had been playing together but getting progressively more silly (as it their tendency at the moment.) I was dishing out tea when DS's cup goes flying across the table (luckily empty but I was still cross) and then DD starts to copy the wearing your cup on your head malarkey. Then DS pushes a chair over onto the floor deliberately whilst eating his tea and I sent him to his room (I had warned him I would if he was stupid again). DD isn't at all hungry (which frustrates me as she will then not eat anything and it is my fault as I let her have a milk and yogurt earlier) and says she wants to go to her room too and screams until I get her out of the high chair and then I very maturely yell something like "go on then see if I care, I'll just chuck your food in the bin" and swear not quite under my breath.

All calmed down relatively quickly but this is exactly the type of behaviour and anger in myself I am trying to avoid but they get so silly and disrespectful it winds me up. ( I know the 2 yo at least is not doing it deliberately, I m less sure about the 5 yo)

DH had a massive grump about cooking dinner for me and him too. Honestly Id rather he didn't bother then doing it in such bad grace. Its not like he does much else to help and I do dinner most nights and every night for the DCs. Think my resentment of him and his behaviour makes it harder to stay positive with the kids (in the house at least)

Letsgo - essays about pooing - cracking up! (although I am sure it is a very serious essay)
Monkey - I like your list - it makes a lot of sense and I will ponder it a bit more. I hope things are going ok this weekend.
Sparkly - thanks for the note about lying. I know you are right and I think I was just really cross that night. Also totally agree with your thoughts on what parenting should look like. I love the concept that you need to recognise that you are making up the rules so you have to both believe in them and also lead by example. So often I find myself saying no to the boys when it is really not necessary. I am still trying to count no shouting days but keep losing track. I also want to try really hard to reduce the number of times I say no to the children because it must be so draining for them and I see it in my 5 year old's eyes even when he thinks I'm about to say no.
jiggle - sorry about your day. I hear you completely as this is exactly what it looks like in my house some most days.
I also take on board what a lot of you said about contacting my friend and talking to her as I really feel like I have been lacking that conversation with friends since we got here (virtual friends excluded!). I realised I have been avoiding speaking to my friends for fear that they might think we made the wrong choice. I guess it's admitting that it is hard which is the hardest part for me, heaven knows why. Yet again it is me feeling I need to have all the answers which I clearly don't have. I have worked this out and I am feeling positive about getting help from the likely sources I always would have reached out to before.
Today has been a really great day. It is warmer but pouring with rain so although I took DS1 for a haircut this morning, we have been in the rest of the day. We did have fights but on the whole it was a great day with much lego building, many puzzles (2 & 5 yr old suited) and the successful capture of 11 dinosaurs in a trap designed by DS1. Here's to tomorrow
Love and strength to you all

Hello - I hope no-one minds if i join you all. I am in quite a different situation to most of you in that i am separated and share custody of my two wonderful DC (DD who'll be 5 in a couple of months and DS who's not long turned 2) on a 50/50 basis with my stbxh.

I have always been the more strict parent and since we separated (over a year now), i found myself shouting all the time which is just horribly unfair. My DC trying to cope with their new reality really don't need a shouty mum. Like a lot of you, i probably took out my hurt and pain on my DC (DD in particular) by overreacting to annoying but 'small in the big scheme of things' stuff.

This has calmed down A LOT and i have tried so hard to bring in new ways of dealing with DDs behaviour - this thread is ace!! - but i will admit, that probably about once or twice a week - i shout

Following your counting rule - I am currently at 0, with no chance to rectify until they come home next Sunday

My triggers - like so many of you - are being ignored, mealtimes and the way DD treats DS like a toy.

They are incredibly affectionate with each other so i have no worries about aggression (and do know how lucky i am), but she just yanks him around without a second thought. Having said that, she rarely hurts him and DS doesn't seem to mind so perhaps i should just leave them to it but that just feels.wrong... god, i am controlling

Stbxh has become so nasty since he left and makes me question everything i do and i find myself analyzing every day and coming up short!

The kind of parent i want to be: calm, fun, empathetic, supportive and someone that both my DC can rely on and be proud of as they grow..

I feel almost physical pain when i think about how much i am getting it wrong at times and i know i do get it right sometimes (was probably at 6 until today), but when its bad, its bad!

Sorry for the Me post, but this seems like such a welcoming and supportive thread, i hope you don't mind

Oh, and a very smart woman once told me that the torrent of chat & information that comes spewing out at bedtime is because that is the time that their brain has finally slowed down enough to remember it all. Because of this, i now spend at least 10 minutes after story time and with a night light on, just having a chat with DD. Bedtime was definitely one of my triggers but now she gets the chance to talk & doesn't think see me trying to get away for some down time - its much better. Not saying you don't do this Nellie and is probably harder with your two sharing a room, but i was at the end of my tether with bedtime too.

Hugs and to us all (and Happy Mothers Day!)

I think with persuading husbands to try new techniques, model first, then if he hasn't twigged in a few months or if he expresses "DS was really frustrating today when..." you could say "Oh, I've been trying X for the past few weeks and he seems to be responding really well to it."

I haven't done a list, but I've been doing some more of my Buttons book and found something interesting in there - it's about looking at your own personal standards, really examining what those unconscious beliefs that we hold about ourselves, our children, parents and children in general. I think ideals are all well and good but sometimes we think we believe one thing and our actions say another! Although I can see how it's a goal to work towards, I'm not going to do a list. I know from experience it will be a tool I use to beat myself up with. But if anybody is interested in the standards thing, I might try and type up some of it because I've found things like that the most interesting and enlightening (and helpful) things in the book.

FushandChups, the only thing I object to is your name I am abroad and you're just going to make me hungry!

welcome fushandchips - similar aged DCs to mine (though I have DS 5 and DD 2). Difficult situation with your stbxh - do you do one week each then?

Hope everyone had nice mothers days. Somewhat mixed here. DD has been hard work and DS silly at times but had a lie in, some flowers and chocolates and we went out for a bike ride (which though the weather was glorious was somewhat hard work - a 5 year old boy and a 2 year old girl have very different views of what a good bike ride is) DH and I started the day ok but went down hill when I moaned about the hour he disappeared off with the kids for on the bike ride, leaving me to sit on my own with the bikes. He thought I would appreciate the break, I thought they were just going for a ten min explore so once again lack of communication resulted in lots of frustration. DD then had a very late sleep on the way back and she is still being a pain in the bum next door - I have left her to it or I will just shout at her.

Anyone else find their DC play up more when both you and OH are there? Mine were beautifully behaved for me on my own yesterday morning. I feel quite sad as my overriding view of mothers day is that my children are badly behaved and don't listen to or respect me and that makes me sad.

Hi fush - this thread is great. I find it really helpful even just knowing others shout too. Not that I think shouting is necessarily good but it makes me feel a bit more supported to not shout myself IYSWIM.
jiggle my DH and I are not great at communicating at times too. It can be very frustrating can't it, esp. if DC are involved.
bertie hands up to the standards thing if and when you get time. I am very conscious of not having an ideal in mind, but feel I sort of need one to have something to aim at. But I am the sort of person who can only be bothered if told I CAN'T do something e.g If someone told me I couldn't be a good mother (they haven't, but maybe they should!), it makes me all the more determined to try.

Fushandchups welcome :) I know what you mean about the physical pain of feeling that you're getting it wrong. It must be so difficult then to be apart from them.

Jiggle that would have annoyed me too. It's not really time off if you're stranded with the bikes, is it?

Letsgo and sparkly thanks for you thoughts about DS. I spoke to a couple of RL friends about it this weekend, I value their view and they know DS and have seen him with their DCs. They basically said very similar to your posts and I felt much more positive after talking to them. I think the upshot is that the behaviour could be grouped together under one umbrella, or could equally be down to a whole load of separate causes (immaturity, the hearing loss then improvement, shyness, stubbornness/pride, development).

After this weekend I'm back to thinking there's nothing too serious to worry about. You lot must think I'm mad. I feel like I'm going a bit mad tbh! It's one of the reasons I've been a bit quieter, I need to just let that side of things ride for a bit and stop over-thinking it so much. I was getting into a tangle.

So this weekend has been good. DS has had a couple of meltdowns but we've managed to get to the bottom of them. It's DD who I've had to try harder not to shout at - she is mad at the moment! I haven't shouted properly but I have yelled her name in alarm a few times before bringing it down a few decibels! The count starts again tomorrow.

Happy Mothers Day all x

DD is the impossible one here too this weekend monkey - she is soooo wilful and I suspect too bright for her own good in some ways.

Thank you all for being so welcoming - it is such a relief to be able to get things off my chest and know I'm not alone!

From reading the thread, i think you're all pretty amazing - being a mum is so hard and unpredictable but still the best thing i have ever done and the love you all have for your DC shines through! Hell, if we didn't care so much, we wouldn't be here!

Onwards and upwards!

fush welcome! It sounds like you have some good insight into what you and your DCs need and good strategies in place re bedtime.
jiggle difficult bike ride with those ages, and I'd get pissed off too if I was abandoned with bikes. It's communication isn't it.....?
monkey I think the fact that the behaviours of your DS that you describe, resonate so strongly with others on here, that it is more likely that you are all struggling with difficult but essentially normal behaviour rather than a rare spectrum type disorder like the one you were reading up on. You are so supportive of all on the thread, I don't know how you find the time you deserve this and this
My day also mixed but mostly v.good, nice walk and kids were great until bedtime. British summer time day 1, refined sugar, cartoons denied and homework gone wrong led to a DD3 door slamming meltdown. Tomorrow is another day

Happy Mother's Day to you all x

Happy mothers day everyone - completely passed me by as it is on a different day here for some reason! Hope you have all enjoyed. Sorry it wasn't all fun, jiggle
We've had a nice weekend although did lose it a bit with DS1 at lunch in a museum today. For the most part though, this weekend I have been mostly annoyed at DH who seems to just ignore any advice I give about changing the way he speaks to the children. As a result we had continuous flare ups due to sarcasm, unnecessary admonishment and just general negativity which I had to keep swooping in on to lighten the mood. I have realised recently that I should definitely not disagree with DH in front of the kids but sometimes he makes it really difficult. Feels like I am the only one trying sometimes. Anyway, sorry - just a little vent for today.
DS1 starts preschool tomorrow and he and we are all very excited about it. I hope it all goes well.
fushandchips - welcome! Sounds like you have your work cut out but also have a very sensible approach. Hope you find useful advice on here!

Thanks letsgo x we had a bedtime meltdown yesterday too, funnily enough. Unsettled tonight but better!

Jiggle, you've described my DD! I've never had to try so hard not to laugh while supposedly telling off - she's incorrigible :)

How's everyone getting on? I'm thinking I might need to change my counting criteria! Most days now I have a moment when I use a loud, arguably shouty (!) voice to get attention. This means that I can't decide whether I can count that day. However, it's pretty irrelevant because generally when it happens it's necessary, I'm resorting to it because my empathetic voice is having no effect, and I then bring it down a notch but use my firm voice. And score or no score, these are not 'shouts' that I feel bad about.

And then there are times when I haven't shouted but haven't been happy with how I've handled it. So the scoring isn't working so well! I like the idea of scoring though as it gives me a focus. Hmm.

Nellie how did your DS get on at preschool?

Well, I'm thinking of ditching the count - I don't need to shout to achieve unpleasantness or otherwise substandard parenting.

I found a useful thing today, having been gently spiralling down into difficult interaction. Basically, I was starting to feel overwhelmed, mainly like I was constantly being asked for more, more, more. I also get overwhelmed when the baby needs my help and DS is obviously deciding to test how much I love him IYSWIM, he sort of cooks up a problem to see if I will put him first. I read this as him needing my reassurance but feel a bit desperate because I'm not able always to put him first or willing to when he's more or less trying it on. But then I feel terrible, like I'm failing his test. And irritated because if it was for real that he needed me, I'd be shifting heaven and earth. But also, what if they both life or death needed me in the same moment...?!?!?!

It's actually ridiculous now I.write it down and no wonder I feel overwhelmed. But what I notice is that at those emotional overwhelm moments, I shut down eye contact, it's like I actively avoid it. And if DS is feeling clingy and anxious, then I'm pretty sure this would exacerbate that. So I tried to nip a bad spell in the bud through attempts to get eye contact, and I think it was very positive; it certainly helped me feel more connected. Didn't stop a meltdown over wearing a nappy to sleep in. But I stayed calm an compassionate throughout, so that's a victory AFAIC.

Struggling a bit with DP here, too. He speaks unthinkingly negatively to DS, I'm not sure how much I can keep.schtum on. He's very defensive if he feels I am being critical. But we have an agreement that in our house the adults don't have to be a "united front" so we do sort of intervention if the other one is being a bit harsh in a given circumstance, which is good. However, just the low level negativity, yikes. I understand that he's an adult and has to be responsible for his own relationship with DS but at the same time, he's key to DS's developing sense of himself, I can't just stand and watch him thoughtlessly undermine DS. Right? What do you think?

Feel like crap. Had to fight both children to bed tonight. DS2 because he was having one if his total meltdowns where he just screams and screams and will not let anyone get near him to calm him down. Had to wrestle him into his sleeping bag and leave him screaming in his cot until he fell asleep. DS1 had a great day at preschool and has been great all day. Goes to bed, sets off a noisy toy, DS2 wakes up, I go in and taking care not to blame him try to settle DS2 and ask DS1 to leave the toy on the side giving him a kiss goodnight. The switch flips and he jumps out of bed and starts talking baby talk and stands by the door saying no, no, no and laughing. I ask him to get back into bed and he's having none of it. I take him to my room and say he can sleep in there as I don't want him waking his brother as he continue to laugh in my face and try to escape from the room to go back to his room where he feels he can wind me up more by waking up and upsetting his brother. At these points everything just goes to hell because I cannot deal with him and do not know how to deal with him when he is like that. DH had to take over while I went and yelled in the kitchen and punched the chair cushion. :(

Nellie have you seen this ? I found this and some of the links around it very useful.

It's as much about your own headspace sometimes, isn't it. "You don't have to attend every argument to which you are invited" - loving this line! It basically sounds like you did exactly the right thing with him, but the laughing in your face really pushed your buttons (that was what triggered our shit Wednesday morning a couple of weeks ago, it's fucking annoying. This sends DH over the edge, too). If you can disengage and continue to deal with the behaviour , then you're there.

Is it difficult finding a balance between wanting to do the bedtime because you want that time with your boys, but also wanting bedtime to be done because you're knackered from work and need some evening time? This sense of impatience often means I deal with things less well at this time of day. Yesterday, DS wanted to sleep in a box. He could only sit up in it. Why did I say no and make a big deal about going to bed?! He would have got in, realised what a crap idea it was, and eventually hopped into bed when I was out of the way and how funny would it have been watching him trying to sleep in a box . But I had stuff to do and was tired and was starting to stress about my own bedtime going out of the window!

For me, it's the school pick-up which really does it. Everyone else just seems to walk away normally, but DS is like a bomb ready to explode and is utterly uncooperative until we get to the car and what I guess for him is a 'safer' environment. And even then I have to work really hard to keep school evenings calm and friendly. But that walk of shame (!) is the part of the day I dread at the moment. And I bet nobody else even notices us.

Sparkly, that's a really good tip. I know that situation well, too, and basically react in the same ineffective way. I'll keep that solution in mind. Love this thread. It's probably worth having a word with your DP if you're really picking up on it?

We also had a crap evening yesterday as DD was over-tired. Couldn't make her happy no matter what. Everything was wrong, wrong, wrong. In the end I gave up trying to have a nice meal time and fed her in front of the tv (big failure as it means she will want it EVERY night now and I swore I would have nice civilized mealtimes - that was pre-DD of course!) The previous night DH had to take over while I calmed down upstairs.
So there obviously is something about the end of the day when everyone's knackered.
DD has just discovered manipulation. Apparently she was "very very ill" so she couldn't eat dinner. Then the cake came out and she perked right up - miraculous recovery! Make me smile a bit after a shit night!

oh dear, DH and DPs that aren't on the same page is clearly a bit of an issue! its not just me then? that's a whole other thread right there...... I love that quote about being invited to attend an argument, there are some people in my house who would think it completely ridiculous not to jump right in with both feet to even a suggestion of an argument, even one to which he they had not been invited. Me, I try to be more of an 'oil on troubled water' kind of person, it doesn't always work.
The laughing in your face thing that is such a wind up, I don't remember mine doing it when they were little (many brain cells have died since then). Could it be, is it feasible (feel free to shoot me down in flames if I'm way off...) that it is a bit like the giggling at a funeral feeling? Hugely inappropriate emotional response to anxiety and overtiredness or whatever has set them off? Thinking of it like that may help you feel less personally mocked. (which would wind a saint up after a hard day at the childcare or workplace coalface when all you want to do is sit down with and watch a bit of mind numbing TV and Sleeeeeeeeeeeeeep. )
sparkly I've read something recently that recommends going towards the clinginess rather than withdrawing and what you said is evidence that it can be the right thing to do. Well done it isnt easy.
Nellie that is great news about DS1 enjoying school, sorry he had another rubbish bedtime. monkey you put it well, everyone has had enough by that time. Post school can be awful too. they have been holding it all together all day behaving for the teacher when along comes mum and - how unreasonable - she wants to walk 100 yards along the road to the car. Boom! (a bit like us when low level niggling or a big fury at work/husband/in laws that cant be let out turns into an out of all proportion explosion about a relatively minor child perpetrated misdemeanour)
Big post. you can tell I'm meant to be working cant you?

Hi all. Haven't been around much for the last couple of days. Has been a bit of a disaster around bedtimes and meal times too. The clock change hasn't helped as it's thrown routines/body clocks out.

Tons on tomorrow, a lot of it challenging and stressful. Will need to really watch out not to take it out on the boys. Wish me luck!

Letsgo - good point about having been holding it together all day at school. I often find myself wondering (occasionally out loud ) why things all go to pot the moment DS1 gets in. Will have to bear that idea in mind.

So I woke up a couple of times in the night right back into my terribly down frame of mind from last night, but shut it down and imagined I was in a little boat on the sea (yes, weirdo, I know) but the result was that I ended up having a much better night's sleep than normal. Today was a better day and although I was worried because I had to do bedtime by myself, I focused on what not to do and it worked out ok. DS1 was super tired but still trying very hard to play up. I sat with him for a long time reading stories and then took him to bed. He asked me to stay with him which I did. He gave me a blanket and a teddy and within about 3 minutes he was asleep.

Sparkly - I think I agree with you on the counting thing. I have found that it has become quite easy to not shout but still behave horribly and that does not make me feel good. I alternate between where I feel the real problem is - him or me. I think the answer is that it is both of us, but predominantly me. I am committed to not being that kind of mum any more. I really need to find a way not to lose it with him because when he stops playing up and starts crying he looks at me with such a face of betrayal.

Monkey - the article is very interesting, thanks. Have sent on to my DH, maybe he will read too... That's after he stops googling his film director SAHD friend he met today. Regarding bedtime - I think there is a bit of that trade off going on but to be honest, I am probably more worried about how late DS1 goes to bed because it is never before 8.30 these days and he used to always be in bed before 8 in the UK. Sounds silly when I write it as it's not like he's up all night but I still feel he is little to be staying up so late. Gets up at 7am on the dot each morning too.

Letsgo - you are right. I often don't think DS1 can stop himself when he starts down that path of laughing. I will try to remember your analogy next time as it may well help.

I feel like I need to go back to the beginning of this thread and remind myself how far we have all come. It is a scary thought though. I know my entries are like a yoyo, alternating between great and terrible. I think I might actually be slightly crazy..!

Good luck tomorrow, Blue - I was really stressed about today but it turned out not half as bad as I thought.