Does anyone else want to come and be a better parent with me?

[AnotherMonkey]

I've just deleted my original post in an attempt to be more positive.

I'm very low tonight, both of mine (4.5 and nearly 2) are pushing me so far beyond my limits at the moment.

So instead of posting my rant of misery, I wondered if anyone felt like joining me in choosing one thing to be less crap at at time?

Tomorrow, I am going to begin by taking it all less seriously. I'm going to try really really hard not to shout at all (this is difficult because DS is deaf at the moment and often does things which are not safe or bloody annoying but I'm going to find ways around it if I can). Essentially I'm going to try to take a step back and instead of letting poor behaviour bring me down, I'm going to try to isolate problems so that they can be dealt with. I might even make a list. I like lists.

(This evening was so bad I never want to see my neighbours again. I'm quiet, smart and even tempered in real life. Tonight our house must have sounded like a war zone. Or the screaming toddler equivalent. It's shit and it has to change).

letsgo yes and he's had supply teacher for the last 2 days and my two do like their routine. He was all a bit emotional after school yesterday and silly today. I can understand why but I am less good at finding strategies to deal with it.

I have huge mass guilt at times (I'm feeling OK about it at the moment mostly...) that DS doesn't have a sibling. I loved my sister growing up (still do of course!) and I always wanted him to have that. Feel sad sometimes that it won't happen and guilty that despite my feelings about only children (a valid choice, can be beneficial, no bad thing, just a different sort of relationship) I feel like I'm not a parent who is suited to having an only child. I'm not really keen on the more intense relationship and I intensely dislike being the playmate all the time. It doesn't help that DS loves company and will almost certainly be an extrovert whereas DH who was pretty much an only child (his siblings all adults when he was a kid) was always an introvert and happy with his own company. I read siblings without rivalry before I even got pregnant and it had a really good, really empathetic description of how children might feel on getting a new sibling (and how to deal with that)

I know that some people use the marble/pasta jar and take one out for bad behaviour, which doesn't seem overly scarring! Or I've heard of using different coloured pasta/marbles for bad, though that might be a bit shaming having to look at the jar and see some red pasta as well as the normal white pasta or whatever. But I suppose in a way it helps the parent keep on track too because you're supposed to keep the balance heavily skewed in favour of positive rather than negative discipline. I think the idea of them working together is nice too, of course you don't have to include a negative aspect :)

Nellie not sure if you've tried this but maybe forcing the apology is too much in the moment that he's upset? He might genuinely not feel sorry or it might be too much to expect from him. I don't force apologies but sometimes get a spontaneous one later and DS has latched onto the idea of drawing someone a picture to say sorry which seems less intrusive than asking him to hug or kiss someone (who might still be mad at him!)

I was feeling really stressed out over things entirely unrelated with the boys and ended up shouting over stupid things that really don't matter this morning. (eg DS2 pestering to know why a bread bin is called a bread bin when it isn't a bin... "it just is!") Then have hardly seen them for the rest of the day. Oh dear.

Will do better tomorrow. Maybe.

Not convinced either way about forced apologies. Sometimes it seems like just training them in acting so that they sound sincere - but perhaps that's a useful life skill and socialisation...

Have now RTFT, phew. We had a calm day, well I stayed calm, but we were quite busy and had one of DS's friends round for tea so I didn't really get a chance to lose it (why is it so much easier when there are other adults around? And why can't I channel that at other times?)

WRT siblings, one of my brilliant friends said to me that I would have to let go of my guilt about it and I really think she's right. I do struggle with guilt and there must be a way in which DS can sense this low level panic all the time. He probably doesn't know what it is, but it's destabilising.

I have and love many of the books we've talked about, just starting "When your kids push your buttons..." and in the middle of "Smart Love" which is affirming, has some good strategies (not tons) - I particularly like "separate the child from the problem" e.g. you'd say "oh no, we've got spilled milk" rather than "you spilt the milk on purpose again you absolute pita. " It's also got an interesting way of thinking about the parent child relationship in that it basically suggests that your child believes fully that the effect of your parenting was your intention (so if the child feels miserable and isolated becaus of the way you deal with something, that's exactly what you intended); and the child thinks that this is the right thing to feel in such circumstances because your parenting is perfect. (!) The net effect of this is that the child will seek to recreate that emotional set up for themselves in the future, in similar circumstances. It's all a bit Freud in that it's very committed to the idea of childhood patterning etc. It also requires quite a bit more explanation than I've done here...

One thing I've found useful is non-violent communication techniques. I like them because my own family background is full of emotional manipulation and co-dependence and I wanted to work with clear guideline for.healthy ways to communicate. There have been a few times when I have lost it and shouted but managed to hang on to those principles so I feel okay that I haven't just been vile. Also the main thing is that you take responsibility for your own feelings so it can help you to calm down because you recognise your own part in your massively negative state.

Right, well, I'm on 1. Good luck tomorrow, everyone.

Ok, so I overindulged on the wine tasting...developed the most horrendous headache at home time so I walked home (through howling arctic wind) with a sense of dread at what awaited me at home knowing I could barely move my head. DS2 was being a bit of a strop monster but DS1 was just being cute and lovely and drew me a picture of a heart. He even played fairly nicely with DS2 doing exercises while they watched mickey mouse clubhouse. Then he read me two books - he astounds me. He played up a bit at bedtime (for DH, as I was curled on the sofa) but he just seemed so much happier today. And both DS1 and I got the most beautiful hugs and kisses from DS2 before he went to bed! I wish it could always be like this... (without the headache!)
I also have to stop myself from catastrophising about having to continue with behaviour strategy for ever. The truth is that we probably will but it should become second nature at some point . I hope!
Letsgo - we are doing the reward jar for DS1. Once we realised we needed to stop emptying it everytime he was naughty, it is building up quite nicely and does seem to be a good incentive for him when he's in the right mood. Problem is he's too smart so tonight he said to me could we do his tokens. I said I don't know what you've earned , we need daddy and he says no, I can tell you, we don't need daddy... Cheeky thing.
I can't even think what number I am on. I need to go to bed. No more for me!

Typing quickly again and will come back properly later.

Since reading Bertie's post about competition, I've been thinking really quite hard about this question:

If I were to approach parenting using Bertie's DH's philosophy, finding the person who was best at it and aspiring to be even better... well, who would that person be?

I got a bit stuck.

So decided to approach it hypothetically. In my eyes, what does a brilliant parent 'look' like?

Still stuck. I have so many contrasting ideals. Maybe this is part of my problem. My own family unit as a child wasn't brilliant and I think I may be floundering a bit at the moment when it comes to understanding who I am as a mother, how I want my children to see me (now, as teenagers, as adults) and what really matters to me on this parenting journey.

What do you lot think - could you describe the parent you aspire to be? Do you think about this consciously?

(500 words by Friday, no slacking )

Sparklyboots, your post is really interesting. I now have another book on my reading wishlist! Need to speed up....

One thing I've found useful is non-violent communication techniques. I like them because my own family background is full of emotional manipulation and co-dependence and I wanted to work with clear guideline for.healthy ways to communicate yy to this.

Blue, I really hate mornings like that. Tomorrow will be better :)

Nellie, what a fab evening! I think the obvious conclusion is that more wine tasting = happier boys. :) You're right about the catastrophising. That's the point of keeping count, I guess - the score in itself isn't important, but breaking the pattern of the behaviour which drives us to breaking point on a daily basis is .

blue - I do that too -if Im stressed or pissed off with DH or something else and then I will snap at the DCs over little things when actually in a better frame of mind I would have said nothing. I really need to learn to separate my mood from the way I deal with the DCs so I am more consistent with them. Any tips on separating feelings from actions?!

I have a vision of the type of parent I wish to be, but for me I think this both a help and a hindrance, as it is not perhaps that realistic (Im an idealist I think). On good days I feel I can achieve some of it but then I stress I am not good at this parenting lark on others.

I also cannot work out the balance I want between work and parenting. I work a day and a half a week and think this is right for me/us most of the time but at other times I get frustrated with the way my career has effectively gone backwards since kids.

Nellie - I think overindulging at wine tasting sounds fun!

monkey.....homework! Nooooooooooooooooo
Ok here goes: we are unique as are our children and every relationship we have with each child is dynamic, depending on so many variables in addition to what we said/did and how we said it. Perfect parenting is both indefinable and unattainable. We should be seeking what works for us and our children and be happy if we stay on a path that moves us towards that.

Here's my homework. I agree with letsgo. What would make me feel I had even done a halfway ok job would be to have a better relationship with a grown up DD than I feel I do with my own parents. Like some others, I had an odd family dynamic growing up. I get on ok, but always wish we were closer. If DD feels able to share the vast majority of her life with us and there are still hugs going on and she feels she can turn to us in times of trouble without us judging, then i will be content.

Ugh. I have been horrible to my lovely children this afternoon because I am feeling stressed out. Again.

I don't know how to separate it out, jigglebum, which is why I have just self-referred to the local NHS wellbeing service. I've been feeling for ages that I need some kind of outside help so here's hoping they can provide it!

blue not heard of that service before. Perhaps I should take a look too.

Blue hope you find help for how you feel. Please tell us how you get on. A little of the right help can sometimes go a long way.
Scout yes I've got some old family heirloom habits that I've inherited and really need to send to the unhelpful behaviour skip where they belong.....(overly critical, my way or the highway, micro managing, thinking OH is 'not good enough' ...yes you wouldn't think that would be genetically inherited/ learned behaviour perhaps ....) self awareness and insight gets us part way there I hope!
Hope you are all having cooperative sleepy story times with your little ones as I write.

Nellie when my oldest girl was little and I used to go out with my chums and drink more than was really sensible, the morning after I would generally have a really good non shouty cooperative day with her. I would feel so rubbish that I'd really focus on getting things done in the quietest way possible and just wouldn't be up to shouting so had to find other ways! And did. Another friend said she found new techniques with her kids when she had a really bad throat and could barely speak for two weeks. So hangovers do have their uses.....

That's interesting about the hangover/ill thing. I know one of my friends has a great theory which is that some days you just need to set yourself up to win. Plan very little, go for non-conflict options, do the ultimate parenting sin of saying yes to avoid a tantrum, etc.

Not a great parents evening. Lots of concerns and a couple of things DS has told me about his day at school this week have just made me :( :(

My beautiful boy. My head's in a bit of a muddle tonight, I plan to watch a DVD with a glass of wine and try to think things through with a more practical head tomorrow.

My own homework is going to be late (some bloody good answers so far though, will be coming back to those).

Well tonight made up for the false sense of security yesterday... DS1 didn't go to sleep until nearly 10 and in the course of calling me every 5 minutes because he is obsessively looking at the clock and creating some massive story. In the course of all this, his brother who was dozing, properly wakes up. I remove DS1 and DS2 breaks into full yell because he wants to leave the room too. Took my husband 20 mins to get them to settle again because I was getting nowhere. Just convincing myself further that I can no longer put my children to bed.
It wasn't so much the act of not going to sleep that wound me up so much - it was that he made up whatever stories he could think of about who had woken DS2 up - anything but him. Can't bear it when he lies. All those great books that I am reading but none of them tell you how to deal with a child who is either deceptive or deluded about reality.

And does anyone think that the obsessive clock watching and focussing so entirely on made up stories that he will not even listen to or acknowledge me is just something he is doing or the sign of something more concerning?

I did my homework. And while I agree with letsgo and scout that we should be confident in ourselves as parents, I do have a perfect parent role model friend. Have been thinking about her a lot today because she seems to always do the right thing. To the point that there is no resentment. I just want to be her. But at the same time, I know I could not be because it is just not me. Her children are impeccably behaved. They are boys, they have fun, they are boisterous, they play fighting games, they watch TV. BUT - they are loving towards each other. They are never rude to others, especially not grown ups. Sometimes I just wish I could be her and that my boys could be more like hers. I have seen her lose her temper with the eldest just once. She plays with them, listens to them, empathises with them, brushes over dramas, comforts them and also does all this for my children when we are with them. She makes me feel like an inadequate mother but I don't feel resentful. I am just sad that I can't be like her because I have a totally different temperament and outlook on life. So the question is - do I tell her that she is a role model and ask her for advice? Or is that not fair and just plain weird?

Monkey - I am sorry about your day. I hope you managed to switch off for a bit as it will help to put a plan in place in the morning.

Friday tomorrow - rubbish week at work, still sub-zero temperatures. Weekend coming up. Need to find the positives somewhere before Saturday morning otherwise we are in for a long one.

Nellie, not weird to ask 'perfect' role model friend for advice. I imagine it would be immensely flattering and lovely to be asked for advice because someone thinks you are a great mum. You don't know, maybe she has some amazingly helpful nugget that she just itching to share with you, but being a nice non judgemental person she is keeping it to herself until asked for help in case her advice is taken as criticism......
It sounds like things are very difficult at the mo, I know it is hard to do a demanding job all day and come home to an equally demanding and emotionally draining evening. Has DS1 started kindergarten /pre school yet. He sounds like an imaginative and bright boy who needs perhaps more intellectual challenge and physical out and about than he is currently getting? If you are in an apartment (no garden?) and it's freezing cold at the mo could that be contributing? I say this hesitantly because every child I know who grew up with a SAHD got plenty of 'out and about' time!

It sounds as well as though sharing a room with his brother has turned into an entertaining bedtime game for him that wasn't available to play before the move. Things will get better!
The job will become more familiar, the weather will improve, you and your DH will come up with a stunningly brilliant strategy for managing bedtime that will get both child calmly sleeping by 8pm every night, school will start. Things will get better.

bertie I like your friends 'set yourself up to win' strategy, that's kind of what I was thinking earlier in the thread when I was talking about letting things slide and not having high expectations. Saying yes to something to avoid a tantrum ( so long as it isn't playing in the knife drawer) is not the same parental sin as caving in and giving what is being asked for during a tantrum. It's the pick your battles thing again.
monkey hope things are clearer this morning((()))

nellie I would be enormously flattered if anyone ever said I was their role model (in my dreams!). I agree with letsgo that it is probably the new situation that is leading to tough bedtimes maybe. When we first took DD out a cot and put her in bed, she played up for 6 weeks!
monkey parents eve sounds a bit tough. Hope you and DS ok.
I have been looking to see if there is a WellBeing NHS thing where we are as I feel I would find it beneficial, but doesn't seem to be available where I am for this kind of thing - only smoking and drinking. If anyone does go, can you pass on tips please?

scout could you ask your GP to refer you for CBT or counselling? Or, hang on......
llttf.com/index.php
This is a website that my DD1 was recommended when she had post viral fatigue as a teenager. I think it is sort of DIY CBT. It might be helpful. Sorry not too clever with links but you should be able to copy and paste, or just google 'living life to the full' and it will be there.

Must stop doing MN and get back to my essay (so-nearly-finished....) You lot are all so much more interesting and responsive! If you spot posts from me before tonight tell me to stop piddling about and get on with it, please.

My homework:

The mother I aspire to be:

• puts her childrens' wellbeing before the expectations/opinions of others.
• leads by example.
• nurtures a belief in her children that they can be whoever they want to be, and encourages them to think consciously about what that might be and routes they could take to get there...
• ...whilst instilling a deep understanding that no matter which route they take, they will still be loved beyond reason.
• allows as much autonomy as possible, whilst they learn how to respect the feelings and belongings of themselves and others.
• is able to say 'I got that wrong' and does her best to fix it.

Told you I liked lists!

Parents evening was good in the sense that they are supporting him and are as non-committal as me about there being an ASD - there could be but equally it could be immaturity. It was bad in the sense that there were lots of concerns and the things they are picking up are not quite the same as things at home (although there are crossovers) and basically fill in the gaps, if that makes sense.

I was very low last night not for this reason, but because recently DS is getting upset at school. He does seem to be struggling a bit socially and I wonder if before the grommets he was a little oblivious to some things which he's now having to deal with. He's sleeping in our bed again and has felt sad quite a lot, which isn't like him :(

This makes me wonder if we should look at getting a referral, even though nobody's sure yet. And I don't know what that means to him or us, really, if we do go ahead with it.

Nellie, again I recognise a lot of DS in your boy, although I'm not sure that's any comfort at the moment! I agree with letsgo and would talk to your friend, definitely. If anything she'll be flattered, it definitely wouldn't be weird, and honestly she probably thinks you're amazing too.

Jiggle I know what you mean about the work/life balance - I generally feel guilty about both simultaneously! I also regret sometimes that my career has nose-dived whilst also considering stopping altogether. I basically just need to be able to split myself in two.

Blue, good luck with the wellbeing thing. It's so worth making use of that if you've got access to it. And yep - come and share all your new tricks with us afterwards!

Crikey, that's long. Need to go and load the dishwasher!

Oh and forgot to write...

Letsgo I completely agreed with your homework. Mine is idealistic but gives me a sense of direction. Yours is much more realistic, probably having found your way through a lot of this already!

Scout, absolutely yes to yours too. Word for word.

I too love a list.
before you shout at me I have just printed out a draft of the finished work for proofreading and cant do that now cos my brain is fried.
off to watch Alastair Sim in the Original St Trinians film (its on the telly, now!) much more fun than unloading the dishwasher monkey
Happy Friday everyone