Does anyone else want to come and be a better parent with me?

[AnotherMonkey]

I've just deleted my original post in an attempt to be more positive.

I'm very low tonight, both of mine (4.5 and nearly 2) are pushing me so far beyond my limits at the moment.

So instead of posting my rant of misery, I wondered if anyone felt like joining me in choosing one thing to be less crap at at time?

Tomorrow, I am going to begin by taking it all less seriously. I'm going to try really really hard not to shout at all (this is difficult because DS is deaf at the moment and often does things which are not safe or bloody annoying but I'm going to find ways around it if I can). Essentially I'm going to try to take a step back and instead of letting poor behaviour bring me down, I'm going to try to isolate problems so that they can be dealt with. I might even make a list. I like lists.

(This evening was so bad I never want to see my neighbours again. I'm quiet, smart and even tempered in real life. Tonight our house must have sounded like a war zone. Or the screaming toddler equivalent. It's shit and it has to change).

((((Nellie)))) Sorry to hear about your bedtime.

I can only echo what dishes said, the main thing is that your heart is in the right place and ds knows he's loved (and he does know that).

You are having an incredibly stressful time, all of you. be very kind to yourself. It probably sounds far fetched (and I'm certainly counting my chickens too early), but since goign out with dh on sat night I have managed to be a lot calmer, because I had a break from it all, albeit small, it was a break.

And some kids are just really more challenging then others, there is no way around it. When dd1 was a toddler I had a friend with a dd the same age, who was the most placid, complying child I've ever met. I'd know her since they were babies, we'd spend a lot of time toegther and had simialr approach to parenting, yet when it was time to leave the park, hers would just allow to be put back in the pushchair without a beep. Mine would run off and no amount of cajouling, distraction, persuasion, bribery would convince her to go without kicking a fuss. NOw, I know I didn't handle it very well, but my friend certainly never even had the same problem!

Claires - your post made me laugh, I don't know how you do it! I have a friend-of-a-friend with twins who said exactly the same about getting them dressed. I reckon if you all make it out alive and fed you deserve bonus points!!

Re toys - could you have a 'cull'? I'm due another one at the moment. I'm a bit OCD about this but you could get your older ones to help. Everything categorised, no more in each box than is manageable to tidy if chucked on the floor. Games with lots of parts/mess/jigsaws stored out of reach or in storage with catches so they can't just be scattered on the floor for no reason.

Role play, bribery and corruption and competitions get mine tidying up. Sometimes.

I basically have lots of ideas when I read about other people's tidying problems,but DS is rubbish with this too and I'm not consistent, I often just think sod it and do it myself.

We have car seat drama too. And also, DD likes to wriggle out of the straps like a mini Houdini if she gets a bit bored en route.

BlueEye was today better?

(((((Nellie))))) you have so much going on at the moment. Sending you lots of peaceful vibes for today.

My project for this week is to look at my own thought patterns. There's no point in getting wound up about work mornings, for example, because I've always been grumpy and crap and usually running later than I want to be. That's not the DC's fault and at least now I have less mornings when I need to get out at that time. And there are going to be times when they feel grumpy and crap too, and I've got to allow that and hopefully be the one who can cheer them up a bit.

And as part of that, like letsgo mentioned, I need to make sure my own needs are met. I'm going to buy one of those thermal mugs and some breakfast bars so that if I don't get time for breakfast at least I can take it with me!

Missed a couple of posts, been writing that in bits since about 7.30! Will be back later xx

It's mental here tonight.

DS has been in full blown meltdown, but whereas last week seemed to be emotions he couldn't control in response to an obvious problem, today seemed to be more that he needed to let out that emotional steam and was just looking for an excuse. At the peak he threw everything in his room into the centre of the floor - bedding, everything out of drawers/wardrobe, even the clothes he was wearing (ok, just seeing the funny side of that).

DD has been the same, though in her case she was very tired and when DS gets into that state it upsets her too.

When things calmed down a bit, I had a chat with DS and he's had an afternoon out of the usual routine at school - it sounds like there were exciting bits but also sad and scary and cold bits and I think he was just overwhelmed. Since we chatted the storm seems to have passed. They're in the bath with DH now.

I didn't shout, and handled it ok think, but it's another one I want to think over because inside I lost it at one point (they'd both been at it for over 40 minutes by that point and I really wanted to get the food/bath/bed bit moving).

I also find myself questioning myself sometimes now about where the line is between positive parenting and pandering to rubbish behaviour. I haven't quite established my own lines and consequences for some of this stuff yet.

If I make it to bedtime it will make 9.

Its difficult to know which battles to choose isn't monkey and when it is best to let it go and even go for the cuddles option rather than the telling off. I am trying to find my boundaries too and to be more consistent with them so it is less confusing. I think I am getting there with DS (5). I wont tolerate hitting/pushing DD etc and I wont tolerate rudeness but other stuff I am trying to be more flexible and positive about - ie if he is angry I am trying to listen a bit more as it is sometimes very justified.

With DD it is so hard as she is at the terrible 2 stage and hard to reason with. Today we went to a swimming group - she refused to join it at all or have me near her(she loves swimming normally but it was a different teacher and different routine and she didn't like that). I let her sulk for a bit, shout for a bit, do her own thing for a bit and then we just got out - it wasn't worth the battle (but I am sure the other mums thought I was pandering to her but she is non persuadable!), later we had to leave somewhere and she refused to come and we managed to negotiate 5 more mins and it wasn't too bad (though she refused to wear shoes!), then at the school run she didn't want to stop her game so she came wearing her life jacket! (she was playing boats with a cardboard box) So in summary I think this thread is helping me choose my battles more carefully and not yell so much, which is beneficial all round.

Nellie, hugs to you and I hope tonight's bedtime has gone better. Please don't beat yourself up. I like what you said Dishes, all of it very true.
Monkey, I'm chuckling at the thought of a toy cull with older ones 'helping' if it was my two there would be no chance of getting rid of anything! Not one marble! Everything is precious, holds memories or is just simply 'mine'. I have to do it while they are at school.......I put bin bags of stuff in the loft and after a few months if they've not noticed it goes to the charity shop.
I feel a bit of a fraud on this thread as my kids are well past the toddler stage, but (I don't want to worry anyone it does get better really it does) my youngest has gone from being a stormy toddler to a stormy young child and now she is a stormy 12 year old. It is still challenging. I did after all click on the invitation to try and be a better parent. As CTC said some are more challenging than others. I was at a park once and observed a mum stand at the gate and give a sort of low 'owl hoot' kind of noise, her three children came running like a little flock of sheep. I was flabbergasted having on many occasions left the park with a child under each arm. Were they hypnotised? It was almost spooky..
Some brilliant insights and support on this thread. Like I said before I really take my hat off to you all

creeps back with head hung in shame
I am so sorry for my outburst and thank you all for your incredibly supportive words. I hated myself so much yesterday. All I wanted to do was apologise to him and I crept back to my room after eating but barely tasting dinner, where he was supposedly "NOT going to sleep because it's BORING" and he was fast asleep. He woke up early and I told him how sorry I was for scaring him. He hugged me and we built a railway track...
I am back on board now honestly. I am counting again because I stopped and I think I must have got complacent. So today I am on 1. Tonight's bedtime was amazing. I know it is not going to be like this every night. Probably not even tomorrow night. But the difference was that DH handled DS1 completely, and perfectly. I focused on DS2 and kind of stayed away from them other than a huge goodnight hug because I know so often I am the catalyst for DS1. I feel sad about it but I really think I need to let DH take control at these trigger moments (like bedtime) and admit that I am not the one who fixes everything for my boy any more. It's hard but it's true. I just need to make a really big effort to be there for him whenever else I can be.
Focus for us both for the rest of the week is to not allow our moods to spill over and affect the boys. I have asked DH to try more empathy and less sarcasm which will be a hard thing for him but necessary. And he was a superstar tonight.
Letsgo - laughing at your attempts at a toy cull. I have tried to do this with both toys and my son's artwork (of which there is enough to paper a large building) and we always end up with such a ridiculously small number of items or pictures in the bin pile that I just give up and resort to the night time secret culls, tucking things into the recycling so they won't be noticed! Worst thing is I am as sentimental about things as they are - no hope!

Jigglebum, my DD is so wilful too. I get so many judgy looks with her in tow! In so many ways I love that about her but sometimes... hmm. You definitely don't get to stay anonymous when she's around.

Letsgo, I was thinking more along the lines of the older ones helping with the dt's toys - everyone loves a cull when it's not their stuff... right?? (No? Not even teenagers? Oh come on :) ) Then I read Nellie's comment about the stealth culls and saw my future. DS is indifferent as long as I don't touch the few things he's really into at that time, but I have a feeling DD might have other ideas.

Anyway, apart from shattering my visions of a tidy new world, you are so welcome, and feel free to vent too.

Nellie, no shame :) Let's agree that this is a place where we can let off steam. I felt a bit like that on Friday, but also felt better for the rant. One thing which really struck me from your post was the part about your DH's role. I'm noticing this more and more with my DS. It's strange because I'm still 'primary caregiver' - I work part time but DH works more and is away quite a bit - and while DH has always been involved, DS has always been a mummy's boy. But recently, since this thread started, I've been trying to back off a bit and give DH more scope to get in there and sort this stuff out too. And he's really good at it. Sometimes DS will start up 'but I want muuummmmy' but then 2 minutes later he's laughing with DH. Your situation is a bit different but maybe at this age they do start to relate to their Dads more than before.

Has anybody read Raising Boys? Is there anything useful in there? I'm not sure I can face another parenting book just yet but I've seen it mentioned a lot.

This morning was the closest I've come to shouting in the last week. I did get stroppy and impatient - I don't know what it is about tues eve/weds morning for us!

Oh and something I've learned about DS: he doesn't handle 'empty' time well at all. And I think we've generally been relying too much on screen time to fill these pockets of the day.

Something else to mull over!

Monkey - raising boys is well worth a read and it's short too. Even DH read it ( I bought it for him for Xmas!) It actually does make the claim that from 0-5 (or 6, can't fully remember), dad becomes much more the primary role model in their lives. I remember feeling sad about it and now I see it happening

Thanks Nellie, I'll have to have a look. Short is good!

I've posted on SN about DS this morning. I didn't want to put it on here as it's long and not quite relevant to this thread, but if you get chance to have a look and if you recognise any of it, I'd be really interested.

Mostly I think his behaviour is broadly within the normal range, with a bit of shyness/sensitivity thrown in. Sometimes I worry that there's more to it. Generally I just have no idea.

Well managed another day of no shouting but had an argument with (D)H in front of the kids instead - not good and I have been trying so hard not to do this. I didn't raise my voice or get at all angry - he managed to do that all by himself!! He finished off by slamming the kitchen door and saying he was going out for the evening, which he has done, leaving me to bath and bed both kids, which actually is not so much harder than when he is here.

I would be interested in your opinions here as I thought I was right but perhaps not. I didn't intend it to be a row but I probably approached it wrong. DD goes to nursery once, sometimes twice a week whilst I work. Dh drops her off and I do pick ups. Last week she got hysterical about going before I even left the house and threw up. I left it to DH to decide whether to take her or not but said I felt she threw up from crying not anything else. He went to take her but she got hysterical again so brought her home and the in laws had to do emergency cover. I didn't criticise this decision as I am not sure what I would have done. This week she was ok till she got there and then cried hysterically again. He stayed outside the room with her crying for 15 mins or so and then the staff took her. I said I felt it might be better just to do a quick handover, despite the screams and she will settle for them when you go and his strategy just delays it and probably leads to more crying. He said he would have had to prise her off him. I did the nursery drop off last year and had to do this on many occasions, I would then hover outside to check she was ok (but so she could not see me) and generally she settled pretty quickly.

I probably should have just butt out as he does the drop off but I got the impression from the staff that they did not really like his strategy either (obviously very disrupting for everyone) though they did not explicitly say that. Anyway epic post. What do you guys think? I definitely feel I approached the discussion wrong but he got very angry and defensive very quickly, including pushing DS away by his head as he was bothering him, asking him something whilst we were having our "discussion"

I've not read raising boys, although I've only got girls I have a lovely 5 yr old nephew who sometimes comes to stay.
Nellie, I love your sentence .."he hugged me and we built a railway track..." Apology, acceptance, forgiveness...and miniature railway engineering. Excellent start to your day
Monkey.... "Tidy new world.." Ha ha ha ha ....dream on! stealth culls are the only way!
Jigglebum, picking battles carefully is good. I try and think when they ask me a question so that I can decide what I need to say no to, what gets a yes and what needs more info and more thought before they get an answer. You don't get much time with a two year old though, there're all about 'now' aren't they?

Ooh, cross post sorry

It was a bit of a revelation to me when I realised that the techniques in 'how to talk so kids will listen and listen so kids will talk' work on husbands too (and work colleagues, parents.....)
Defensiveness and rising anger levels in response to perceived criticism (which might also be called assertiveness or trying to engage in problem solving....) is something I'm quite familiar with. It's difficult.
The 'dropping off at nursery' problem is easier to deal with and an open and constructive discussion with the nursery staff would be a way of addressing it in a blame free way. They will have seen this many times and can probably offer useful advice. Could he talk to them at a 'calm time' ? I think you are right and a quick hug and 'bye bye' is better than dithering about with a howling child, but he may not be prepared to hear that from you. (This is supported by my younger child's mantra when she is off on a residential saying "don't hang around, just say bye and Go Quickly")

To be fair, the feeling of tipping out an entire box of toys is pretty amazing. I don't mind DS tipping out boxes but only one at a time and he has to tidy it up afterwards. But I've done it for easier access when playing with him, and it's just one of those feelings, like ripping into the new coffee jar. Maybe instead of getting cross about it just treat it as, OK, now the stuff is on the floor so we have to put it back in. Or if you have the right kind of space (outdoor space for example or possibly a large enough room) a sand table filled with rice or lentils or gravel is a nice way to explore that feeling of tipping and pouring without it being all over the floor.

I don't like raising boys. No harm of course if you get something positive from it, but I think it genderises too much. I don't think it's helpful to assume boys and girls need different things, I think it's better to assume nothing and try to deal with/understand the child(ren) that you have. Plus the testosterone surge theory in the book has been totally disproven and that makes me a bit about the author in general.

My rebellious feminist side wants to read the opposite-gender book and try using those principles on the "wrong" gender I actually find that this is quite an interesting tactic to use, to sometimes think "If he was a girl what would I do/say in this situation?" - you think that you'd say exactly the same things but if you actually play through the scenario in your head you'll probably find that you don't, not always. And it might not be an appropriate thing to say actually, but it's still good to think about what you might say or do and why, and why it might be different, and it helps give you a new perspective. For example with physical anger/aggression I think most people would focus on getting boys to calm down and/or transfer their anger to a suitable target e.g. a pillow or hitting furniture rather than people. But with a girl we might want to encourage her to think about using other communicative strategies such as writing the object of her anger a note or using words. In reality, both strategies are helpful and (IMO) the communicative one is probably preferable as an option (but the transferring to inanimate objects a useful halfway strategy).

letsgo - thanks for your wise words. I really think I am going to buy that book on Amazon now - I have seen it mentioned many times on MN and if it helps with communication with husbands as well then it is a definite essential in my life!!

Bertiebott . Yes I like what you say about gender and will read the 'boys' book with my 'gender stereotyping awareness' dial turned up high.
I know exactly what you mean about tipping out toyboxes too
Jiggle , the joy of the 'how to talk...' Book is its simplicity and effectiveness. The reason it helps with husbands and mothers too is that it isn't about children so much as about communication skills. You won't find my 'wait 10 seconds' tip in it though, that was from a speech therapist. Goodnight all I hope it's a peaceful one

I should avoid fast typing when I'm getting ready for work - re-read my note and it makes no sense. So the point was that in the book he indicates that in a scenario with mum and dad present, the 0-5 period is when boys (and girls, i'm sure) focus on their mums as the key role model. After that age 5-6 onwards (and for a defined period I think) the male role model becomes very important in their lives. I can see the point about gender stereotyping but I didn't really get that from the book. I feel like I have dealt with my boys in a gender-neutral way as much as possible and I see that the two of them are very different with DS1 having many more typical "girl" traits (can't believe I just said that). But I do think I have definitely seen a difference in him over the last year where his whole demeanour and focus is so different when he's spending one on one time with his dad. And he gets super upset if he thinks his Dad is upset with him about something. He didn't used to be like that so I thought it was an interesting point. I have to admit I can't remember anything else specific so think I may need to read again and see if I still feel the same.
Tonight's bedtime was the opposite of last nights with both boys still awake and all sorts of emotions going on until well past 9pm. But I am on 2.

Bertie interesting perspective - I really am going to have to read the book now just to see what I think!

10 days now. Not all of them good, but I definitely feel a shift in my automatic response to challenging behaviour.

Have a good day, everyone x

Marking place cos not enough time but kind of a crap couple of days. I yelled in the car yesterday Noticing that my trigger lately is DS and DP repeatedly not responding to me or not listening. But having an under 5 cos it is part of the deal at that age! Sigh.

Haven't full-on yelled for a while, but I'm catching myself speaking to the boys in a cross/impatient/irritated voice far too often. The same voice I tell DS1 off for using to DS2

Dishes - being ignored is a big trigger for me too. There was some good stuff on the AHA Facebook feed about ways of getting attention the other day - here - this is definitely something I need to work on too.

I had been doing really well at not yelling at DD about toilet accidents, but after about 6 accidents at nursery this week and 3 at home today, I did completely lose it with her. I feel terrible, especially as she kept saying "sorry mummy" through her tears.
Does seem to have reinforced toilet training for a while though as she has been going to the potty of her own accord since. Just not in the way I wanted to be. Bad mummy.

I'm a bit drained today. DD has been having one of her pissed off evenings and DS has been hard work today too. Since the overall improvement in DS's behaviour, it's been sort of like lifting a blanket to uncover what's going on underneath and, thanks to some help over on the SN board, I think I might be getting a bit closer to understanding. My head's in a whirl at the moment and actually I just want to sit down somewhere and have a good cry.

I'm starting a diary today and will see his teacher next week and then me and DH will need to decide whether there's something we need to look into further.

((()))) to everyone else having a rough couple of days.

Hugs Monkey. It is ok and sometimes necessary to have a good cry. I have been on the brink at work a few times recently too - which would not be so good. You have been working so hard, not only at your own issues but also at supporting everyone on here. Since I started on this journey I really notice my mood so much more. Some days I feel able to deal with anything thrown at me and others I struggle to smile and feel really weighed down. Noticing the impact your demeanour has on the dcs is important but also important is to notice the impact it has on you and try to work out what you need. A cry, some time alone, a bath, a walk, these things are sometimes all we need to get back on track again. It is exhausting and you need to look after yourself too.
I will look for your other posts. I'll be thinking of you and sending positive vibes