OK - all you non smackers - what would you do instead then?

[lisalisa]

Message withdrawn

With all due respect mears, I think that's crap. I am extremely strict about manners and behaviour and my children have clear boundaries. I regularly get comments from strangers about how well-behaved and pleasant they are. I don't hit them, but I do discipline them and I do expect high standards of behaviour from them.

I think your post is wishful thinking tbh. You speak as someone who smacked your children and understandably you want to feel that it was the best thing to have done.

Just read wassername's. That's cruel

No I am not particularly happy that I smacked them, however I think that there are parents who consider themselves as being strict, but accept behaviour that other parents would think is deplorable - I certainly personally have witnessed behaviour of children that I think is ridiculous, but their parents do not.

I was trying to make the point that as parents we all have differing standrads of behaiour if you like. You might think your children are well behaved but others looking on might think they are not.

For example, my family went on holiday with a friend of mine and her daughter. My DH and I were really pleased at how our 4 children were behaving. My friend thought that they were out of order the way they spoke to us and behaved. She had totally different expectations of how 4 children would interact with each other as she only had one to deal with.

That was what made me wonder if that is a factor in the debate. My children ahve survived their early childhood psychologically unscathed and we are a close family. I do not waste any time wishing I had done things differently - as they grow up you rapidly move onto other worries

Greensleeves, I too regularly receive comments about how well behaved and well mannered my children are (more so dd as she is older). I do no consider myself to be extremely strict and wouldn't want to be thought of or seen to be extremely strict. Even though I have very occasionally smacked my children.

I don't necessarily agree with Mears' view but sorry you are being rather patronising.

But others looking on frequently do feel so strongly that my children are well-behaved that they feel the need to approach me and tell me so, mears

And to present an opposite perspective - I can't think how many times I have sat with my children in a cafe or restaurant, all of us sitting eating, talking pleasantly and enjoying one another's company, while another family's children screech and gibber, running around, whining, knocking things over, snatching things from one another's plates, while their parents alternate between beseeching them to behave, slapping at them, threatening to smack them, shouting at them and generally behaving in just as disordered and physically undisciplined a manner as their offspring.

Your generalisation is bollocks, I'm afraid. Generalisations usually are.

And Mercy, I feel extremely insuled and patronised by mears' post. How dare someone assume that the reason I don't hit my children is because I'm slack about behaviour and manners. Horseshit.

aCtually, Aviatrix, I've used wassername's stategy too, and it is in the same league as smacking as the ultimate distraction technique. Doesn't ahve to be Father Xmas - can be anything related to anything the child likes - instead of taking away a toy for naughty behaviour, making a pretend phone call to take away a nice outing/visit/etc. ("Hello Mrs Smith, sorry, X won't be able to make it to play with Y because she's been naughty". "Hello Mr Swimming Pool Manager, X won't be going to his swimming lesson this afternoon because he keeps hitting his baby sister"). I recommend it!

Where on earth did Mears say that? I think you have inferred that from her post.

Anyway, I'll leave you to slug it out (verbally). Greensleeves, I like you very much but this isn't the Oxford Debating Society, I just can't keep up.

I am not generalising - I was tring to put forward another viewpoint. Greensleeves, I tried by using my own experience, that at times other parents have different views about what is acceptable behaviour.

My children have also been congratulated on their behaviour. Whenever they went to friends houses to play I would be told how well behaved they are. You tend to find though that people will not come up to you and tell you what they think when they are misbehaving.

PS - Just reread that - didn't mean to say smacking was the ultimate distraction technique!! Meant to say that the pretend phone call was the ultimate distraction technique, which gave instant results just like smacking gives instant results - ideal for child hurting other child situations where you need to stop it instantly!

BTW - I didn't say that other parents were slack. I said their tolerance level may be different.

"Non smackers 'put up' with a level of behaviour that I personally would not."

This is what I took exception to, because it's a generalisation and it's not true..

Thanks for the "Oxford Debating Society" quip, Mercy. I'm not entirely sure what you meant by it, but oddly I found it bloody hurtful anyway. I thought this was a debate.

I'll stay off this thread.

Greeny, you can't stay off all the threads you have got in a row with someone on

We'll never see you again

Ha! That's a VERY good point Mears. People DO tell you when your child's been well-behaved (I say it to others) but most of the time politely hold back when they've not been (I know I wouldn't go up to someone else and do that). I too have had compliments on my children's good behaviour and only 1 ever (which I am still shocked about, still agonise over and it wasn't even over something that bad) on their poor behaviour). So while it's lovely to get lots of compliments, it doesn't mean your kids never put a foot wrong!!!

If anything Greensleeves I made a comment on my own abilities. I just do not have the temperament to negotiate over behaviours that other parents do. That doesn't mean they are slack necessarily, it means I can't tolerate it. Hence why I do not hold large birthday parties for children - I can't stand them.

My apologies - I did not intend to insult or patronise anyone elses parenting skills.

Yes I read your posts that way as well mears - that you were more uptight about petty things than a more relaxed parent would be (apologies if I am not putting it very politely)

I think it was a half-arsed compliment to those of us with more patience and negotiating skills Greeny

OK. I'm sorry I jumped down your throat mears. I have a chip on my shoulder about this issue. Strong feelings and all that.

But I wasn't just arguing for argument's sake, a la Oxford Debating Society.

I think I should stay out of this.

The worst thing about posting on these threads is that thye are so impersonal, I know we have expessions n faces n stuff but its often so mi,interprted. You can read into a lot of things that arnt intentional. We are not all experts in oexpressing ourselves, but we are all parents and we all want the best for our kids so there is absolutely no need to think anyone thinks they do anthing any better than anyone else. So unless otherwise please assume that people mean nice stuff I hate fights,............... unles someone pisses me off!!!

Greensleeves, my comment re the Debating Society and not being able to keep up was a comment on my (non) ability to maintain an intelligent discussion fgs. Of course for you and everyone else here, it's a heartfelt thing, not an intellectual debate.

Anyway, I hope you see this, I'm off to bed soon (I've been up since jsut after 4 am, thank you ds)

mears, I don't want to get into a debate about whether dd (who has never been smacked) is well-behaved as being a toddler, she is very much a work-in-progress.

But I am proud not to use short-cuts to good behaviour like smacking (or locking in rooms or threatening to remove something a child is looking forward to). Instead, I am prepared to take the time to instruct, negotiate, inconvenience myself to soothe hurt emotions, however long it takes, even though it takes a lot more effort.

To me, it is not about good behaviour per se (external). It is about bringing about good behaviour by developing the child's intrinsic self-motivation (internal). It takes a long time to cultivate this (some adults never get there!). But I believe modelling fairness and not exploiting our inherent power over children, is key to this. It is not a race to achieve good behaviour. It is about nurturing self-motivated resilient adults who internalise our values.

Message withdrawn

Time for a bit of Z E *N

Does anyone have a nice meditation photo maybe?! Saw a nice Buddha with the sun setting behind it but I wasn't prepared to pay for the photo.

Sorry I am totally incapable of being reasonable about this. I can see, now I have calmed down that neither mears nor Mercy was actually being offensive. I ended up in tears over it and I think it's just because the whole issue is so super-charged for me. I will go and sleep on it, I think.

I think blueshoes' last post is fab, though.