Explaining god - advice needed by non-religious parents

[BadHair]

Ds1 has developed a fascination for churches. He knows the names of all the churches for miles around and can tell you if they have spires, clocks, towers etc. Although I find this a bit strange, as we're not a religious family by any stretch of the imagination, I also think its quite sweet.
However, he's started to ask what churches are, and who lives in them. I've told him that no-one lives in them and that they're places where some people like to go to sing hymns and say prayers, and so far he's happy with that. But its only a matter of time before he asks what hymns and prayers are.
So, how on earth do atheist parents give a simple explanation of god etc to a 3 yr old in a balanced, sensible fashion?

Sorry, the point I was making was that the lifeboat thing is unfair, for reasons already pointed out. God wouldn't be involved in something so unfair, so I think we must have wrongly interpreted that part of the bible.

Thanks for that Bloss. As Gomez has said you are passionate about this, and I respect that. But I simply do not buy any of this, especially the heaven stuff. I do remember an old school teacher of mine asking the question 'If Heaven and Hell really do exist, then do we live in another worlds hell?' Certainly got us all thinking!

Not getting involved, just love lurking on religious threads, but in answer to Northerners question, a christians view of hell is that it is a place where God is absent from.

So we live in hell then as God is absent?

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What about those who are blind to the lifeboat through no fault of their own, Bloss? I'm not badgering you, would just like to hear a good explanation, if there is one, as I've never yet found anyone not flummoxed by this. (I'm reminded of my FIL who always ended up screaming 'BECAUSE IT IS!' - at his children's endless questions 'why?' ..................)

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Sorry, posts crossed. I'd actually posit that those devout in other religions (including, ahem, atheism) don't even see a ladder. They don't see anything AT ALL. I know loads of loving, kind, moral atheists who have tried their hardest, but can't believe it as anything but a nice story. They don't hear Jesus speaking to them. And I know for a fact that they are not damned. If they were, I wouldn't want to go to 'heaven' or whereever myself. There could be no enjoyment in such a place on such terms. I really do genuinely believe that some people are able to see and hear God, the Universe, whatever, and others aren't. Those who can't are not to blame, as some have tried very hard. The world today is not really geared towards receiving such information. You said yourself that it took you a long time, Bloss. What if you'd had a slightly different upbringly or genetic bent and hadn't heard the message?

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Bloss - but Milton may not want to meet you in his heaven - how would you feel then?

Hell is other people, surely

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Ah Bloss, I see. I disagree with you amicably. I didn't see Jesus when I read the bible, either literally or metaphorically. I still don't think that muslim granny who's scarecly ventured outside her own country/religion has been offered a choice, unless you think that choice comes to her in the 'guise' of her own religion? I'm really grateful to you for not skirting around this issue. btw, I've asked for the door to be opened overtly many times, but nothing has happened. Conversely, other prayers have been answered. The two don't coincide temporally. I don't know what to think in the case of people who look hard but truly don't see.

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ROFL Tinker - absolutely!

Aloha is right about empathy. It develops around age 3 or 4- at the same time as theory of mind. This is when a child realises that other people have different thoughts to them. Before then they don't realise that- so if they feel OK then everyone else must. Aloha didn't mention it but autistics are often said to have no empathy. This isn't because they are uncaring (and some do have empathy- it just develops later) it's becuase they don't have theory of mind. They feel OK so everyone else must as well.

Once theory of mind kicks in empathy follows (unless you're a psychopath). It's not religious, it's biological.

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That's OK then! (no faececiousness intended)(something not quite right about that bracket). There's not a great deal of conviction about any of it then, just lots of faith. I still don't blame those who aren't so easily convinced for rejecting it. Our brains were made to be logical, after all. I still think it will be OK in the end. If there are no great demonstrations available, then maybe we don't need to make a great song & dance about it at our end. Just live our lives nicely.

If the lifeboat is so subtle (which you seem to be saying if I understand), then our acceptance of it can be equally subtle. Is that right?

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great thread - food for thought.
Bloss, I do see your point of view and can empathise with your viewpoint even though my own is so different from yours.
One further query though. If you feel that Muslims could potentially go to heaven as they acknowledge God and it isn?t their "fault" if they have not heard of Jesus, what about those of other religions such as Hinduism and Judaism? Do those religions not teach their followers about "God", even if in different terms and ideologies? Do they not try to follow religions that ultimately promote goodness, kindness and responsibility to one another as human beings? Also, what about those who have not got the mental capacity through no fault of their own to have even got to the stage of letting God into their hearts? Will they miss the lifeboat? Does this include young children who die, the mentally ill and disabled?
Just wondering about your thoughts on this side of things, not trying to pick a fight, just genuinely curious

Actually, I think we have those feelings in order to make decisions that are ultimately to our benefit, as an entire species. I think we organise ourselves as a society by various rules for the same reasons. Animals organise themselves and have their own 'right' and 'wrong' way to behave both individually and at a group level (much simpler than ours, granted) without having any spiritual beliefs to guide them. I believe that the desire not to harm people for no reason (ie self defence) and to nurture each other is innate, for good evolutionary reasons, which is why most human societies support those things in various ways and to differing degrees. I do think empathy exists to guide us in these matters and that's why we have it (unless we are abnormal to some quite serious degree). We are also (most of us) intelligent enough to realise that if we all only behaved in ways that hurt others for our advantage, all our lives would be intolerably miserable. That's pure logic! Our intelligent brains are also feeling brains - other people's pain literally causes (most of) us pain - that can be shown using brain scans - our pain receptors light up when we see other people (esp those we care about) in distress. It gives us physical,brain chemical pleasure to receive love and gratitude from others, and even just to witness other people's happiness - again that's brain chemistry. Therefore for (most of) us virtue is indeed its own reward. We enjoy the sensation of happiness, other people's happiness gives us happiness, so we carry on trying to avoid making people unhappy - in general. For those who feel these things different the rest of us - the vast majority - have enacted laws that are designed to prevent random violence and theft. More subtle refinements of morality are the result of having our wonderful complex, thinking brains that you believe are our gift from God, but I don't.

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