Explaining god - advice needed by non-religious parents

[BadHair]

Ds1 has developed a fascination for churches. He knows the names of all the churches for miles around and can tell you if they have spires, clocks, towers etc. Although I find this a bit strange, as we're not a religious family by any stretch of the imagination, I also think its quite sweet.
However, he's started to ask what churches are, and who lives in them. I've told him that no-one lives in them and that they're places where some people like to go to sing hymns and say prayers, and so far he's happy with that. But its only a matter of time before he asks what hymns and prayers are.
So, how on earth do atheist parents give a simple explanation of god etc to a 3 yr old in a balanced, sensible fashion?

But under Sharia Law a man may kill his wife for infidelity, in the Koran a man may beat his disobedient wife, Sharia Law also makes a woman's evidence worth half a man's etc etc and there can only be a rape conviction with male witnesses etc etc.
If the Koran is so misinterpreted, then why is it so consistently misinterpreted in the same way wherever Islamic religion is practised? It does seem a huge coincidence that all Muslim leaders get it wrong in exactly the same way!

and here
www.islamic.org.uk/womright2.html

But under Sharia Law a man may kill his wife for infidelity, in the Koran a man may beat his disobedient wife, Sharia Law also makes a woman's evidence worth half a man's etc etc and there can only be a rape conviction with male witnesses etc etc.
If the Koran is so misinterpreted, then why is it so consistently misinterpreted in the same way wherever Islamic religion is practised? It does seem a huge coincidence that all Muslim leaders get it wrong in exactly the same way!

"As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill - conduct, admonish them, refuse to share their beds, beat them", the Koran, chapter 4, verse 34.

Is this not so?

Shariah law has not been interpretated by all leaders in this way! One fifth of the worlds population is Muslim and dont all do these things.
yes, a woman can be stoned for adultery because of the damage it can cause to the family however in most civilised cases if either party is unfaithful this is grounds for divorce.Most Muslims and leaders are horrified by the way their religion is stereotyped.
There is no country which actually follows the laws as Muhammad meant them to be unfortunatly but this doesnt make the religion bad only the people.
If you do a search on the internet under islam you will find lots of Muslim organisations that are run by leaders who do not misinterpret the laws and the word Islam actually means peace and Muslim means someone who submits to this peace.
Why dont you try visiting your local mosque and talk to Muslims and the leaders there ?

Islam promotes the family and children and see affairs as destructive and harmful to these which is why the Quran speaks so strongly about such things.
Of course I agree with you that what you are quoting is appalling and I cant defend it as I dont know enough about Islam and actually dont believe they can be defended but I'm sure that there are plenty of muslim women who could explain it.

The reason why a womans word in court is seen to be worth less is at the times these laws were introduced it was only men who were concerned with the outside world and women were sahm who were simply not as aware of what went on outside the home.

"Men are superior to women on account of the qualities with which God hath gifted the one above the other, and on account of the outlay they make from their substance for them..." (4:34) (translator J.M. Rodwell)
"Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more strength than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient". (4:34) (translator Abdullah Yusuf Ali)
"Men have authority because Allah has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them..." (4:34) (translator M.M. Khatib)

"Men have a degree of advantage over women." (2:28) This concerns the qualities of leadership, surveillance and maintenance which are bestowed on men.2 To this end the wife must neither receive male visitors nor accept gifts from them without the husband's approval. The husband has the legal right to restrict his wife's freedom of movement such as leaving the house without his permission. Thus the husband can forbid her family visiting her or his wife from visiting her family.3
Women remain basically minors all their lives, and know nothing positive about the outside world and so few are ready to challenge the system. While their brothers are indulged and spoilt the daughter is helping with household chores from a very early age. She is even expected to run and fetch for younger brothers who are aware of (4:34) (namely that Allah considers girls to be subordinate to boys) and they punish her if she is too slow.
Women are forbidden to refuse to have sex with their husbands etc etc etc
That last bit can't be true Hercules. If you are the witness to a crime you are witness, being a 'SAHM' doesn't affect your brain or eyesight!

Look at this link

www.jannah.org/sisters/qur_wom.html

and here

www.jannah.org/sisters/womqursun.html

I do have to confess aloha that i was not aware of some of the quotes you've posted and i am genuinely interested in learning more.
Where did you get them from, have you included any commentary and is so whose?

Please tell me what you think of the websites i've typed.

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robinw - I teach my daughter to be good, kind etc because you would want to be treated that way yoursefl. Basic thoughtfulness = better for teh majority - don't say that last bit but...

And my daughter now goes to a church based after school club which is causing quite a few discussions. They will 'teach' her something ('Jesus love you', 'Jesus died for you' for example) and tell it as though it is the 'truth' (is to them I guess). She will repeat it to me and look to me for reassurance. Tricky. I just explain that I don't that but that others do. It's hard though, she really wants to know teh 'right' answer.

Robinw - as an atheist I've so far brought ds1 up to distinguish right from wrong without even mentioning god. "We don't steal because it hurts other people" etc. I don't feel I have to tell him that we don't steal because god says so.

Have to say that even as a Catholic i feel it is straightforward to teach right and wrong without god being brought into it. TBH I prefer to use explanations that don't involve God but concentrate on others' feelings and the child's own feelings as i think this is much simpler for a child to grasp. As my DD grows older she will understand why God doesn't like this sort of behaviour either and the importance of repentence and reconciliation both with God and individuals.

Robin, as an atheist, I try and encourage ds to be good and kind as opposed to rude/unkind etc but it is hard as they do like things to be very black and white and find grey areas very tricky to understand and it is only now at the age of five that ds accepts that there are some areas of life that are not totally clear-cut. I would certainly encourage ds to enjoy life as much as possible but while respecting others.

Robinw- Personally I've always thought right and wrong was about treating people respectfully, whether or not that's couched in religious terms. I have no problem with saying "Don't do that- X will be upset" or "What a lovely thing to do, Y was so happy" to my kids because I really believe that, in the general scheme of things, it is wrong to upset people and right to think of other people's wishes and feelings. I would be very upset if my children did not learn that other people are important and to be respected. For me that has nothing at all to do with a religion.

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I find the idea that religious people have the patent on morality quite absurd. Decent behaviour is primarily about empathy - what would the other person feel if you did X or Y. And this is what makes the world a safe and appealing place to be. Yes, it's Do Unto Others, but that doesn't have to be on pain of celestial displeasure.

Actually, it's not really do unto others in the Biblical sense, it's more Do Unto Others as THEY would like to be treated, not how you would like to be treated.

Like others here, my children are taught that life is about respect and empathy for others and treating them as they would wish to be treated themselves. I fail to see what religion has to do with it at all. In fact some people I know seem to use their religion as a cloak under which they can be unpleasant. 'I'm a Christian and go to church so it's okay if I speak ill of others.' kind of attitude.

Good point, aloha. I often forget that not everyone is as full of good taste and discernment as myself so this can be a problem. Getting and giving shit presents is the classic example. A really lovely friend of mine once gave me a horrid, lifelike (perhaps- nasty thought- dead and stuffed?) curled, sleeping ornamental cat and I cried out in alarm and disgust before I could stop myself. I must remind her NOT to do by me as she would be done by in the future...

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