7 year old left alone in house and allowed to cook supper

[FrannyandZooey]

I have been meaning to post something about this for a while but another thread this morning reminded me of it. In the Milly Molly Mandy stories (written in the 20s and 30s), MMM has an idyllic childhood, enjoying things such as fishing for tiddlers, raising an orphaned hedgehog, watching the blacksmith in the forge, etc etc. She seems to me to be between about 5 and 8 years old, although I would be interested in people's opinions of this.

Obviously a lot of the things she does were once safer, or regarded as a lot safer. I imagine children could wander about freely because there was less traffic, also I think the community as a whole would regard children's safety as a joint responsibility so if you got into difficulty a friendly adult would help you out. We have more awareness of 'stranger danger' these days although I don't know whether there is in fact more danger around. Probably.

However some of the things she is allowed to do would just be totally taboo today. She stays in by herself with Little-Friend-Susan one evening and they fry up onions and all sorts of things (although they are notably not allowed to use the bread knife, which has made a great impression on ds :))

I also find it interesting that although she is allowed more or less to get on with her life without much adult interference, she does is only given her own bedroom at this age and previously slept in her parents' room.

I am just rambling now but I wondered what other people thought about this, and whether there is any way to give our own children more of a Milly Molly Mandy type of childhood?

I was brought up on Milly Molly Mandy. I still think it's quite feasible..I imagine it is actually safer now to leave children in the house cooking supper than it was then.

Pippi Longstocking is similar I think..but a bit more accident prone if i recall correctly.

But Pippi is obviously a fantasy, whereas MMM seems to be a fairly accurate, albeit slightly idealistic, account of childhood in a village in the 1930s.

Just found a couple of links which suggest she is 5 years old. Would you let a 5 year old chop and fry an onion, even if she didn't use the bread-knife?

Milly is in the much despised Shirley Hughes middles class idealism vein (love it myself)which was replaced by "realism" from the seventies onwards..though you could argue that Tracy Beaker isn't that real either.

Parents are but a nuisance in children's books.

Are they allowed to use an onion cutting knife or do they fry them whole?

The Family from One End Street is the nice working class version..maybe

Do you let the children toast marshmallows over the fire or is it too risky?

Do they make their own bonfires and cook potatoes in the embers?

Would you let them make a raft and launch it unsupervised?

Can they bash nails into tree trunks to make jholds for climbing

How many hours would you let them out for without you?

MMM - I loved the maps on the inside covers. I do think that the author might be using a little poetic (?) licence with regards to 5yr olds cooking (with or without bread knife). Children's stories fulfill one function in allowing characters (and therefore readers or listeners) more freedom than in reality. I could be wrong - my dad (grew up in 30's) used to take his mother and father cup of tea and thin slices of bread and butter after post Sunday lunch snooze. He must've been about 8 at the time and that WAS the bread knife will count his fingers next time i see him.

My naughty little sister is similar - at one point the older sister takes the young one off for the day to play by the river, and the little one falls in.

I've always inferred they were aged about 8 and 5 at the time

Swallows and Amazons, Famous 5, etc. are all similar. Childhoods were not really like this, even when these books were written.

However, I do try not to wrap the boys (7 and 8) up in cotton wool, and do try to allow them some freedom and independence. We went camping last week, and the boys loved having the space to explore and be adventurous ...
... a little too adventurous in ds2's case: he's now in plaster

Billy Blunt comes round (MMM's parents said he may), so they use the blade on his pocket knife to chop up the onions

Mother does seem a little shocked when she comes in, but after she checks to see whether the frying pan was burnt (it wasn't) she doesn't say anything.

I think they are written in an extremely realistic style and am sure that children of this age were allowed to do the things mentioned. Ditto My Naughty Little Sister.

Did anyone else notice the text has obviously been changed in the Shirley Hughes book 'Helpers'? It's clear from the pictures that the older two children give the baby a bath while the teenage babysitter is in the kitchen, but the text says "and then they helped him to bath the baby" or something. It was obviously acceptable in the 1970s but not now.

my childhood was a bit like this - laissez faire etc. I was certainly cooking for myself by age seven, and walking home from school by myself. (My mum worked in the evening so I would cook for me and my dad.) And going off for long walks by myself...
hardly ever got the house to myself though in the evening
I am not sure it was any safer particularly than now, but this level of self sufficiency was expected. I think we did it because we were shown howo do it and we COULD do it and there were always people around (neighbours/family/random passersby) that one could call on for help if there was a problem. I suppose it was the nature of the community.
BUT we all shared beds too - no-one had to sleep alone unless they wanted to. in fact it was (is) a family saying - you can get in any bed you like.
I am going to try to be as relaxed as I can about everything but it is hard I know

Love My Naughty Little Sister - great for reading aloud to appreciative audience. I think MNLS is pre-school age as she goes to school for the day with big sister as mum can't find anyone to mind her and Wish teachers did that now - fancy a day shopping.

Am reassured by MMM mother being taken by suprise at their cooking - thought she'd left MMM a note or something "MMM - off out down t'bingo - get yer own supper love Mum"

No MMM's mum had left bread and dripping for them but they decide to fry it, then get carried away and do an onion. They way they think of frying the bread lets you know that they have been allowed to do it before. The parents were not at bingo, though - nothing so wholesome - they were at a Political Meeting

I agree HC that it was safer because they were expected to be able to do it. We err on the side of caution so much as far as things are concerned these days now, while expecting children to be able to cope with unlimited exposure to tv, adult sexuality, hard sell adverts, violence, crap food etc.

I also agree MNLS is a pre-schooler but I don't think children went to school aged 4 or 5 in those days, Emmy Lou.

I went to school when I was 4 in 1961

Did you, zippi? That's interesting, was that the usual age then?

I think MNLS is 3 or 4, myself. From her speech and the things she does.

I think it was quite normal..of course i was gifted and talented and could already read when i went..I got told off for reading too quickly to the teacher and not sounding out.

I could also count to a thousand

Well I think you could have been trusted to cut up a ruddy onion, then, don't you?

ah yes, MMM has seemingly unlimited freedom in the Village, but she only has one frock

Swings and roundabouts, you see

Bunty (not the comic but a contemporary of MMM's who made a town out of buttons that came alive !!!!! ) was a bit more restricted but had a better wardrobe IIRC

Yes Suzy that amazes me as well

How incredibly wasteful and profligate we are these days - she really did only have one dress, didn't she? And it was mended until it was too knackered to be mended again.

MMM has been a great source of philosophical and ethical musings for me :)

Ah, MMM and MNLS... somehow I don't think it would wash with the Wong Brothers at bedtime. Anyone remember Little Pete stories?

No, SuzyWong, MMM has 2 frocks, red serge in winter and pink and white stripes in summer. Though it is notable that we only see the pink and white. Hmmm.

I try to give ds as much of this type of childhood as possible. He's the only child who plays out in the road, and I let him roam the house pretty much unsupervised.

Our rule is, he can use whatever tools and do whatever he wants if he can do it safely. So he does actually use sharp knives (he's 2 1/2) because he has shown that he can use them safely, he waves scissors around so he's not allowed them unless supervised.

He's really a very resourceful, imaginative and safety conscious little boy. And if I say No, which is pretty rare, he listens. [smug emocion]

Don't agree with 3 and 4 yos having their own bedroom though

There is a fine parable of venture capitalism in "milly molly many spends a penny". A great favourite in the fillyjonk household, that.

You want Will Scott.. the Cherry's had adventures and "happenings" orchestrated by their eccentric father who was always absent but ever there.

A "happening" would start with something strange, a note, a stranger, a purse and then gradually unfold.

I had a lot of freedom at this sort of age. I can clearly remember that I couldn't wait for the council to put in a zebra crossing so I could go to the shops- I was 6! I walked to school alone at 7 and then on further to dancing after school. At weekends and holidays we played out a lot, in an area I would now consider was too unsafe for my kids There wasn't the traffic for a start (late 60s early 70s) and other adults would look out for you (and tell you off).

As for the cooking, my grandad taught me to make tea with a kettle on a gas stove when I was 6, and at 7 I did my hostess badge for Brownies and had to learn to cook and wash-up!

Don't think I was left home alone though......

Sorry to but in, but did any of you see those letters from the Queen at 7 years old, her handwriting was better than mine at 37....... I think 7 year olds musta been alot older than they are these days.