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Original poster

7 year old left alone in house and allowed to cook supper

183 replies

FrannyandZooey · 03/06/2006 12:16

I have been meaning to post something about this for a while but another thread this morning reminded me of it. In the Milly Molly Mandy stories (written in the 20s and 30s), MMM has an idyllic childhood, enjoying things such as fishing for tiddlers, raising an orphaned hedgehog, watching the blacksmith in the forge, etc etc. She seems to me to be between about 5 and 8 years old, although I would be interested in people's opinions of this.

Obviously a lot of the things she does were once safer, or regarded as a lot safer. I imagine children could wander about freely because there was less traffic, also I think the community as a whole would regard children's safety as a joint responsibility so if you got into difficulty a friendly adult would help you out. We have more awareness of 'stranger danger' these days although I don't know whether there is in fact more danger around. Probably.

However some of the things she is allowed to do would just be totally taboo today. She stays in by herself with Little-Friend-Susan one evening and they fry up onions and all sorts of things (although they are notably not allowed to use the bread knife, which has made a great impression on ds :))

I also find it interesting that although she is allowed more or less to get on with her life without much adult interference, she does is only given her own bedroom at this age and previously slept in her parents' room.

I am just rambling now but I wondered what other people thought about this, and whether there is any way to give our own children more of a Milly Molly Mandy type of childhood?

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TheThreeFillyjonks · 03/06/2006 16:24

I was 7 in the mid 80s. Not only did I walk to and from school alone (2 1/2) miles each way, not only did I cook my own tea, and stay at home alone on Baker days (what are they now, Inset days or something?), but I also walked my 4 yo brother to school and back and cooked his tea too.

I do think kids today are overprotected and that No Good Will Come Of It. But I wonder why.

Original poster
FrannyandZooey · 03/06/2006 16:38

I don't think we have much else left of real meaning in our lives Fillyjonk. :(

OP posts:
TheThreeFillyjonks · 03/06/2006 19:00

Ok, I think MMM is exceptionally idyllic. But I do think that what happens today to increasing numbers of kids is kind of not so far from the humans in the Matrix. Sitting in front of the telly stuffing crisps is not what they were designed to do. And thats the default, even among ds's 3 yo Steiner educated friends. Several of them are overweight. I cannot get my head around a 3 yo being overweight Sad.

(I can post smug things now, I am an Established Poster Wink)

EmmyLou · 03/06/2006 19:33

Suzywong, I have a vague recollection of Little Pete stories - I think my brother liked them but I had Mary Plain and stuck with her for years (dd2 age 7 is now loving these and even my brother, at 46 remembers Mary Plain's catchphrases etc - he must've been listening in on my story time all those years ago Shock). Mary Plain is also set in the 1930's. When I think back, i remember walking home from school with my sister (me, 7 and sister 10) and lighting the coal fire before mum came in from the school where she taught in the next town. I only let dd1 walk to the village shop a couple of years ago as I read/heard somewhere that children aren't able to judge the speed of a moving car properly/safely until they're 9 years old. It seems cars do have a lot to answer for.

Would you recommend Little Pete btw?

emkana · 03/06/2006 19:45

TheThreefillyjonks, I agree with you to some extent, but with regards to being able to leave your son to do things unsupervised I would caution you that he's your first (isn't he?) and what sometimes might seem to be the result of excellent parenting techniques can actually be the result of the personality of this particular child.

Dd1 could be trusted with all sorts of things from a very young age, dd2 on the other hand is an accident waiting to happen! I don't think I did anything different...

TheThreeFillyjonks · 03/06/2006 20:18

he is my first but he's not my only one, emkana! Yes, they're all different. As I explained, I leave him unsupervised only if he's shown that he's capable of keeping himself safe. I make decisions about his safety based on his competance, not his age. Its worked so far! No trips to A & E yet!

Here's an example. We have no stairgates. Both my kids are good with stairs, both in our house and out and about. Neither leaps for the stairs like they're some forbidden thing, they use them sensibly.

IMO this makes them safer than some of my friends kids who go for the stairs the second the gate is taken off.

Ditto knives. Fillyboy knows that he can use a knife if its used correctly. So if, on his travels-at playgroup, with a grandparent, whatever-he finds a stray knife, he'll actually be safe with it. He carries them correctly-this was a big thing for me. He asks before he uses them. He knows not to use them unless an adult is with him and aware that he is using it. They're not forbidden fruit, he doesn't play with them. They're serious tools that mummy and daddy also use.

Anyway, it works for us.

suzywong · 04/06/2006 00:34

I stand correted Filly, and emmy I will get reading Little Pete to ds1, 5, and let you know.

I am going to let ds1 ride his bike to school, 750m away on very quiet and thoughfully driven on roads when he is 6. In the meantime will be racking brain for previously unthought of menial tasks about the house for him to perform

Christie · 04/06/2006 00:41

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

suzywong · 04/06/2006 00:46

Oh yes the family from one end street!

Why is the name Eileen Cresswell popping in to my head

Piffle · 04/06/2006 08:08

Same as you would not send a 4 yr old up a chimney these day
Changing...
Times...
I used to make dinner for our family at age 7.
Mum would get things ready for me night before - I'd make shepherds pie, fried rice, casseroles, steamed puddings...
I used to come home to an empty house, look after my 5 yr old brother after school. Mum was at uni, came hoem around 5, Dad at 6.
Never sufered one burn, one knife wound.
We lived in idyllic closely knit village with neighbours who all knew and watched out for us.
And I thoroughly identified with MMM and Pippi Grin

TheThreeFillyjonks · 04/06/2006 08:18

helen cresswell? Moondial and so forth?

have him wiping down your skirting boards and shining your taps, thats meaningful.

TheThreeFillyjonks · 04/06/2006 08:18

menial Blush

KTeePee · 04/06/2006 08:22

We lived on the edge of a rural town and there was a stream further out the road (not within sight or sound of the houses) and we used to play there all the time without any adults - and had younger siblings in tow, who would have been no older than 3....

Original poster
FrannyandZooey · 04/06/2006 08:47

Is The Family From One End Street suitable for a 3 year old? We are close to knowing MMM and MNLS off by heart and struggling to find other equally simple and innocent books for ds.

Jamie and Angus stories by Anne Fine are a fairly good modern equivalent we have just found.

OP posts:
zippitippitoes · 04/06/2006 08:49

I think they are too complex for a three year old probably nearer 6 years..

what about Teddy Robinson

TheThreeFillyjonks · 04/06/2006 08:55

Oooh, ds loves the family from One End Street. He is 2.8

Our copy has some line drawings too, not a huge amount, just enough to let us point and say "oh, thats what lily-rose looks like", which is good for ds.

Original poster
FrannyandZooey · 04/06/2006 09:03

Ooh yes we have just found Teddy Robinson too. We tried Olga da Polga but really too complicated - too much metaphor and sarcasm and so on. Josie Smith was about the right level, but quite nastily gender-stereotyped I thought and her mum says she'll give her a smack :(

Searching fo something to equal MMM and MNLS has made me appreciate all over again how bloody marvellous they are.

OP posts:
zippitippitoes · 04/06/2006 09:07

The Little Wooden Horse

and Gobbolino the Witches Cat

FloatingOnTheMed · 04/06/2006 09:10

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TheThreeFillyjonks · 04/06/2006 09:11

tales of joe and timothy (dorothy edwards, out of print but on amazon for 1p)

Aurora Anna Cath Vestley. Ditto the 1p thing.

And the Moomin books, obviously.

Original poster
FrannyandZooey · 04/06/2006 09:17

Gobbolino a bit too sad, zippi, he goes a bit wobbly lipped if there are any mentions of dead mothers or mothers going away etc (or maybe it's just me)

Which rules out a large chunk of children's fiction I realise Shock

I will go for those, Fillyjonk, if I have your assurance there are no dead mothers in them.

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TheThreeFillyjonks · 04/06/2006 09:20

theres a *working" mother, franny, and a SAHD.

And boys looking after babies, and girls playing with cars.

And a large amount of non-coercive dispute resolution between Aurora's parents. Not so much Joe and Timothy's.

edam · 04/06/2006 09:24

Oh, happy memories of MMM, MNLS and the family from One End Street. Aaaaah nostalgia is great.

Thing about children's fiction is you have to get rid of the parents in order to have adventures. Doesn't mean real life was like that. Equally true that kids had more freedom, but not to the extent of children's books. I was a small child in the 70s and walked to the village school on my own aged 6 - no major roads to cross, knew every adult I'd come across and could have called on any of them to help if I was in trouble (and any adult would have intervened/told me off if necessary). Times have changed. We used to go off in a big gang and play for hours, in the woods, in a stream, building hay castles in the fields. If you wanted to play with someone, you didn't wait for your mum to arrange a playdate, FFS, you just went round to their house and asked 'can X come and play?'. Any family that had just moved in got 'can your little boy/girl come and play' as soon as they'd put the packing cases down.

Original poster
FrannyandZooey · 04/06/2006 09:25

Good lord, strong stuff Shock

I have bought 2 x Joe and Timothy from eBay for £2.50, so I will be after you if they are not entirely satisfactory, young Fillyjonk

OP posts:
edam · 04/06/2006 09:26

Think I've just destroyed my own argument about kids not having as much freedom as fiction would have you believe, haven't I?