7 year old left alone in house and allowed to cook supper

[FrannyandZooey]

I have been meaning to post something about this for a while but another thread this morning reminded me of it. In the Milly Molly Mandy stories (written in the 20s and 30s), MMM has an idyllic childhood, enjoying things such as fishing for tiddlers, raising an orphaned hedgehog, watching the blacksmith in the forge, etc etc. She seems to me to be between about 5 and 8 years old, although I would be interested in people's opinions of this.

Obviously a lot of the things she does were once safer, or regarded as a lot safer. I imagine children could wander about freely because there was less traffic, also I think the community as a whole would regard children's safety as a joint responsibility so if you got into difficulty a friendly adult would help you out. We have more awareness of 'stranger danger' these days although I don't know whether there is in fact more danger around. Probably.

However some of the things she is allowed to do would just be totally taboo today. She stays in by herself with Little-Friend-Susan one evening and they fry up onions and all sorts of things (although they are notably not allowed to use the bread knife, which has made a great impression on ds :))

I also find it interesting that although she is allowed more or less to get on with her life without much adult interference, she does is only given her own bedroom at this age and previously slept in her parents' room.

I am just rambling now but I wondered what other people thought about this, and whether there is any way to give our own children more of a Milly Molly Mandy type of childhood?

ah but aren't their parents important explorers or professors or something?

I would love to be able to allow my children more freedom but, ironically, living in the country seems to be a more hazardous place than town. Despite the fact that the lane outside my house is supposed to be 30mph, the lack of a police presence (EVER - unless someone tries to break in the warehouse opposite) means that very, very few cars come past at a reasonable speed. I would conservatively estimate that at least 80% of cars are speeding. Combined with a lack of pavement and many blind bends it would be like letting my dd take her bike around Brands Hatch on a raceday. I am also a bit divided on the paedophile issue. There have always been 'dirty old men' but I can't help but feel that the internet has provided them not only with the means to explore their fascination more freely, but has also enabled them to hook up with each other whereas they would have been more isolated previously. Coupled with the notion that children are generally more precocious than before (probably because of what they may be exposed to via TV) many impartial people do not see them as the innocents that they generally are. Did anyone read the headline in the Daily Paranoia (Mail) yesterday about the 8 year old whose leg was broken in a hit-and-run and as she tried to crawl out of the road no fewer than SIX cars drove around her without anyone helping. It says so much about why so many people are reluctant to let their children out and about alone. I had much more freedom as a child than my DDs enjoy, but I also had friends to play with, whereas their friends are always at 'organised' activities

I don't know

Their uncle is a Mad Scientist of some sort

I don't think "wives" worked then :)

So glad this thread revived, was sobbing my heart out at having missed it (LOVE threads on how much freedom to give children and LOVE LOVE LOVE threads on children's literature).

DH and I are Swallows and Amazons obsessives and members of the Arthur Ransome Society .

It's interesting what has been said below about the extent to which these books are/aren't realistic in how much freedom children are allowed. Agree that Famous Five and Pippi Longstocking(!) are pretty much fantasy, but there's a Swallows and Amazons messageboard and from time to time someone (often a child) will post that it's not realistic in how much freedom they are allowed, in response to which loads of people will post that actually they used to go camping on islands by themselves aged 7 etc etc.

Agree with prettybird's comments about allowing 'freedom' for your kids and 'others' questionning you about it. Case in point - wanted my DD8 to walk home from Brownies on Monday on her own (I was out and DP looking after DS who was ill in bed) - 7.30pm finish, about 300m, one street to cross with crossing - open streets - she was OK with it all - walks home from school which is further and the Brownie leader said NO - someone would walk her home!!!! I know my children and their limits (one of those parents that also did the no stair gate thing - taught instead how to use it and never a problem) and I want them to have opportunities to grow independently in areas I feel are important for their development. We read many of the books mentioned and they have been a great source of inspiration for my kids when they are in open areas with places to explore or even in the back alley with all the neighbours kids.

Really interesting about Brownie leader, Zazas.

My 6 year old nephew goes to a childminder one evening a week. It's a short distance down the street, on the same side of the road, in a quiet residential area. My SIL recently had their third baby (5 weeks early).
When my mum was visiting she couldn't make out why my SIL went herself to collect him (which means getting the baby dressed for outside, possibly interrupting a feed or nap) instead of him walking home by himself. When she suggested it my brother said it hadn't crossed his mind. However, my guess is that the childminder wouldn't allow it - I presume she'd feel it would put her in a difficult position.
But he is mature for his age and SO capable of coming home by himself!

BTW, did you say your DD8, Zazas? How many kids have you got?

Sorry!! No that would not be my 8th daughter!! She is DD1 and I have DS1 and I have do have a step son and daughter but not eight girls! Having said that my childhood school friend just gave birth to her ninth child 2 weeks ago so it could be possible!
Yes I guess it was a Brownie Leader covering her back sort of thing! Now I remember going to Brownies on my own both ways as a kid and it was GREAT. I love when I asked my DD what she liked about walking home on her own and she said "I go at my own speed and take time to notice what I find interesting, it makes me feel happy" Oh sweet :)

m1m1rie - there is another thread on 8yr old hit and run.

If nothing else, this thread is making me reassess how much freedon i give my dds (10,7 and 2.8). Its an odd mix, precociousness and lack of independence. Seems to me that the polarity of the two and the chasm inbetween causes nothing but confusion in the minds of our children let alone parents. Freedom to be safe on the streets is soooo at odds with the 'freedom' to wear skimpy tops and watch provocative dancing on music videos.

Our walk to school in a predominantly middle class, affluent village does not involve crossing ANY roads and takes about 10 minutes yet DD1 was in year 5 before I let her walk up by herself (I was following with dd2 who was in year 1 anyway). Is it because I thought other mothers would think I was lazy? It is because I thought the school would think me irresponsible? Is it because I would have a niggle at the back of my mind that she could have been abducted and I wouldn't know until it was too late?

I think we have lost the desire to look out for one another. Too much value is placed on the individual.

Sorry Zazas, me being thick - it should have been obvious!
(Was imagining you as a sort of Mrs Ruggles character presiding at teatime over a long table with your massive brood!)

Emmylou, the peer group pressure element - what other mothers or school would think - is really interesting.
My dd is not quite 1 so dh and I have not yet had to deal with any of these choice for real though we've talked about it a lot - I'd like to think we will allow her lots of freedom but maybe it's harder to actually do it when it come to it.

The strategy we have in mind is to deliberately seek out those parents who are of the same mind as us about freedom and do things with them (we have a mental list of those of our friends who are paranoid and those who aren't), so we don't get swamped by the pressure to be overcautious.

Kathy you can select friends to some extent but once children are at school they make friends with whoever they like - whether you get on with the parents/agree with their method of parenting or not.

IME, you tend to find that first children don't have quite as much freedom as subsequent children. Friends of DD1 who have older sisters (brothers aren't quite as influential) are a whole lot more precocious!

I just find it incredibly hard to give ds any freedom at all. We were in a shop today which had 2 exits, both facing onto the same side of the shop, about 40 feet apart from each other. Ds wanted to go out of a different exit to me and meet me at the front (on a pedestrianised street). Normally I would have said no, but this thread was in my mind and I let him.

I found it really, really hard I kept thinking "What if somebody sees me doing this?", and the moment when I came out of the shop and couldn't see him for a second was really scary. As if he was really going to get abducted in those few seconds - but it felt like a very real possibility :(

Am coming to the conclusion I am quite mad and most of the rest of the country are too

Franny, how old is your Ds?

3.2, EmmyLou.

TBH Franny, I'd have been a tad wobbly too - depending on where shop is located etc. Similar situation today (well - rural equivalent?) dd3 (2.9) at village shop, buying ice lolly after playgroup. She takes lolly and starts to unwrap it and heads out of the shop where I cab't see her to put wrapper in bin on pavement. I'm still faffing about with cash and receipt etc and have to mentally check myself - Don't flap, she's OK, she knows where the bin is - be glad she knows how to dispose of wrapper properly, its a quiet village lunch time, you'll be outside with her in just a minute etc.

It's hard work this long rein lark isn't it!

We live in the countryside so I allow running on ahead and exploration out of my sight in the fields, etc., but am stricter in town - or try to be. It's natural for them to want their freedom but so difficult to let them have it. I have let dd1 age 9 go for walks along the canal with a friend but always make her take a mobile and am never quite happy until she's back. I dream of emigrating to rural Sweden where I feel they could be freer..

Or should that be freeer? They both look daft!

TooTicky - freer looks best I think

Why Sweden? Is this a vague feeling that Scandinavian countries are safer/cleaner/forward thinking? Or do you know of such freedoms therein from personal experience?

Hmm, actually freer looks only marginally better. Perhaps 'more free' might solve the problem. Don't ask me - I only have a degree in English

I can't work out why, but I would feel most wobbly at letting ds, who is 2.8, out of my sight.

My approach to parenting up to now has basically been basically to make the house safe (and give him the skills to be safe in the house) enough to let him explore as he wants. Or directly supervise if needed, but he's responsible for telling me he wants to do something that needs supervision, eg using knives (he can't reach them anyway).

I think at this age, the problem is that they are very defenceless, really. They are physically small enough to be picked up and carried off. They are too small to be seen by cars. Ds is also incredibly trusting and would go with anyone really.

Compared to the risks from keeping them in the house eating crisps and drinking coke in front of the tv - they're negligible, really. But I can't shake them off.

I must point out that ds is extremely sensible (well, changing room shenanigans excepted :o) and he was out of my sight for approx 30 secs. However, scary, yes. Why?

yes, i did wonder at you letting him out of your sight there, franny, but assumed it was before the changing room shenanigans.

LOL, yes. He is in fact rather trustworthy, but doesn't understand yet that mummy does not want to flash her pants to the teenage population of Essex.

I honestly do not know. will ponder. your lentil link doesn't work, btw.

Oh bum :(