My son treats me like shit because he doesn't like his sister

[JustFabulous]

No way round this, is there? .

{desperate}

"DS2, when we were out, said "I don't like people who smoke" as we walked near a lady smoking. She was in a corner, considerate of people walking by. I was mortified and told him that was rude. He is only 7 but I feel I should have taught him better not to say such things."

• Just another angle on this too (not trying to be critical and not sure I can properly explain what I mean). I've kind of changed my mind on things like this since I've had a child and have observed the early school age a bit more as well. My Mum was definitely someone who was a stickler for teaching me tact and protecting others' feelings from an early age, both through correction and even by her actions (ie with me just observing). It has made me very tactful BUT skilled at putting on a front now and feeling that there is a 'wrong' overtone about a lot of my preferences, and I would almost rather die than be direct and upfront on things which feel uncomfortable to me, even though I'm probably capable of doing that.

Even though it's very embarrassing to you for children to say things like this, they are being honest and not intending to hurt, and not realising that others can overhear them, necessarily. Much as I'd like - I'm programmed - to give the message 'You can't say that!' I am really going to try for 'You can be open and say whatever you think,' (maybe even literally) but also give some explaining about the way it makes others feel.

Good point. But in his defence, he knows I hate smoking and have trained them to cover their mouths and noses if there is too much of it. Crap, that is rude too isn't it?

You sound like your doing just fine op, I think most of us dislike siblings when we are younger

Plus he might have friends who are only children who have ipads and ds lites coming out of their ears and seem to have a better life ie no sharing.

DS1 has hit ds2.

Is answering me back and being really disrespectful. I have sent him to his room for not apologising to his brother nicely and being rude again. I have told him to get his room spotless. He said he won't do it so I said we won't go out. He said we weren't going anyway as you have a cold (not true might go) and he doesn't care.

I want to be alone to cry

A time limit e.g til 3. Then you will be visiting with a bin sack. A bit of time for you to sort through bin sack. Then you might find time for an outing. To the charity shop....

Or just bag it and he has to earn it back.

It sounds as if you're doing reall well now, but it will probably take a little while to filter through to them that actually, you mean business and things are changing. It won't happen overnight, but be consistent and don't doubt that you are doing a great job.

You're doing really well. Ignore the 'I don't cares from him'

If you can manage it look faintly amused.

He wants you to think he doesn't care (because then he still 'wins'). I strongly suspect he does in fact care very much! --and even if he doesn't care this time it's good for him to learn your response is consistent whether he cares or not!

We have been out all morning until now.

Went to see MIL and lost the plot a bit there and cried. Left DS1 with her for a bit. Went back she ended up feeding them all. Went to park. After 10 minutes ds2 was complaining that ds1 had hurt him. Then dd said ds1 was telling another kid her name was "horse mouth" and being mean. DS1 said dd was lying. Decided to leave. Ds1 winding up dd. DD being rude to me. Get home. DD hits DS2 for looking at her book. DS1 winds up DD by going in her room.

DD on step. For twice as long because of hitting. Says she doesn't care. DS1 has until 3.30 to do his room or I will go in with a black sack.

I am exhausted. MIL does not get me at all.

DD just came up to moan that DS2 is talking to her.

Can't even pee in peace.

If I was less emotional about them it might be easier.

DD is being a right PITA. Lying about ds1, kicking ds2, threatening to run away.

I am just losing the will to live, literally.

She has just called ds2 a stupid fst idiot and is not taking the piss out of him. I am staying quiet as yelling won't help. Just can't do this. I can't.

Right DD is nine?

In your shoes it would be time for me to sit her down for a 'chat' outlining the behaviours which are not acceptable - in terms of attitude and behaviour. (telling tales, hitting, rudeness). Explain (again) what the sanctions already are and tell her you expect better from her (as she is so clever/mature/such a good girl really). If she doesn't meet your high standards she will keep getting punished. I'd make this chat quite boring and long- and I would tell her at the outset that any rudeness during the chat would result in you thinking she was very childish and would need to go to bed early/not do X/or whatever is appropriate to her life.

I would also explain to her something nice you want to give her/do with her when you think she is ready which will involve more mature behaviour over a period of time.

I think you are getting better at dealing with the specific incidents- bored policemen, consistent sanctions. But the next trick is to ensure that while they still loved and valued they don't slip into bad behaviour just 10 minutes after a punishment has finished.

You don't really want them to behave because they fear a sanction, you want to aim for good behaviour because they want to behave..

I haven't had lunch. I have a pounding headache. A neighbour brought garden produce round and I ended up sitting on the stairs crying my eyes out.

The kids are in their rooms for the night now. Tomorrow is another day...

Tomorrow is shoe shopping.

I had said we would go swimming after. I have never taken all 3 on my own before . Normally I would cancel because of today but is that all wrong. Do I start a new day, forget everything that has gone on today, go swimming and then leave if they are naughty? Or is that meaning no consequences for todays behaviour?

I read on here once by a mner that when her kids were doing the "he hit me", "she hit me first" routine she just said "I'm not interested, I find it all very boring" until they gave up, once they werent getting any involvement from her it wasnt worth doing it iyswim?

You do sound like you just have very strong willed children, this isnt a bad thing when they are adults.

I'd go swimming. I see no point in extending the crappy day into the next day...
I do think same day punishment best and kids need exercise.

Can you have a think about swimming -do they like races, do they like diving for things, can they do life saving skills, do handstands, carry each other-2 carry 1 in their arms,take 3 blow up balls...you may do this already-it just seems they're in a rut of annoying each other and they need distracting from it? I could be wrong

You have your own standards and we're all different, just thought it may be hepful to hear what mine are.I have taken my kids home from things before now, but it is after several warnings and a last resort because it's rare they're equally bad too. I removed ds1 from a restaurant last year and sat in the car with him whilst my dm had pudding with dtwins-that was for persistently running around disturbing other diners and after 2 warnings.
I left a soft play years ago because they'd been mean to another group of children which apalled me!

If they were physically fighting with each other I'd do a quick fgs 'will you behave' then suggest a change of scene/new game/going to opposite ends of the park... because though I think it's undesirable I also think it's normal and I did it with my brother. Fighting in the car? I have swapped their seats around/put on loud music/played the alphabet game/anything really to distract. Or I have pulled over and shouted at them-generally when I've had a long day too...

If they hit a random child or friend I would go mad with them and probably leave.

However, I respect that you have different limits, and as long as you're consistent and confident , then I see no reason to critisise.

Only one of my children can swim so it will be bobbing about mainly.

I am in shock at the moment as only DD has come down and just the once. Maybe they have had a bit of a shoc today, seeing mummy sobbing on the stairs.

How am I supposed to know how to be a mum when I never had one.

My stock replies during sibling conflict were;

For tale telling, bored "I couldn't be LESS interested darling"

Squabbles over TV channels, X Box, anything " Sort it out between you or I will take it away so no-one can use/watch/play with it. You have 5 minutes before I do this" Then do it if they don't comply.

For emotional blackmail, I laugh at them e.g. "You love him more than me mum" should never be taken seriously

For "I'm bored" the response is, "Great, do the dishes/hoovering"

For "I hate you" I replied "That's a shame, I love you"

Mine get on famously. I expect that is because they got no attention whatsoever from me when they were at loggerheads. They bonded over my indifference

That helps, thank you

DD came down saying DS1 was in her room shining the torch on her. Turns out he has bent the cover on her new book and when I tried to talk to him he was rude to me.

4 hours ago he cuddled me when I cried and said sorry...

For tale telling, bored "I couldn't be LESS interested darling" I would get, "you don't care then that he has hurt me, taken my toys etc etc."

Squabbles over TV channels, X Box, anything " Sort it out between you or I will take it away so no-one can use/watch/play with it. You have 5 minutes before I do this" Then do it if they don't comply. I would get, "That's not fair."

For emotional blackmail, I laugh at them e.g. "You love him more than me mum" should never be taken seriously. I would get "well, you obviously don't care about me."

I hope you said "oh dear" to DD then picked up a book to read yourself.

Calm indifference is the key. When you get involved in their squabbles you will always be the bad guy as each of them wants to win and will try to use you to do so. They'll give up eventually when you stop being referee.

Obviously if there is blood, sexism, swearing, etc. you must indicate your contempt at their actions. I tend to find that "I'm very disappointed in you" is the worst thing I can say.

(Disclaimer: I worship my DC. I praise them continuously for being kind to each other, helpful, honest, etc. All the positive qualities I want to encourage. I just refuse to be used as their enforcer.

I would have said "You're right, I really don't care about nonsense"

For "that's not fair", I would shrug and walk away.

For "well you obviously don't care about me" I would say "don't be ridiculous darling" and leave the room.

repeat ad infinitum

How do you know all this stuff?

I have no clue. No instincts. Just fear.

Oh my love, your children KNOW you love them more than anything.

That's the bottom line. All the rest is just crowd control

You are really hard on yourself. You come across as an excellent, loving mum who needs to give herself a break. Your DC are utterly normal insofar as they WILL use everything they have to get attention. That's what they do. It's our job to guide their minds towards them getting enthused by positive attention as opposed to beating the shite put of each other. And DON'T FEEL GUILTY

Fab, you do know how to be a mum. Sometimes whenyou're overwhelmed youtell yourself you dont because maybe its easier?

So many of us have had fucked up childhoods, lots of us would probably have our cgildren taken away if we based our parenting on how we were 'parented'.

I think you need to stop telling yourself you dont know how to be a mum, its not helping. I recall saying this to you before actually, probably at least 3 or 4 years ago...

Nothing I can say to that, TDF.

To sort of deal with "you love him more than me" I run a "favorite child" system -because it makes it all a joke and obviously neither is my favorite child.
You can gain favorite child status from good behavior,or shameless flattery of your wonderful mother! This has now expanded - in times of crisis the cat gets promoted to favorite child,and DS demoted...it is just silliness,but I hope it reinforces that I love them both.

I think you need to stop telling yourself you don't know how to be a mum as well - I had a happy stable childhood,my Mum was lovely,I don't remember scenes etc.I can't deal with the fighting etc like she did because I don't remember it happening. I know that feeling that it is just impossible and you can't "do" motherhood.
But you need to look at what is going right, accept you are doing your best,that you are there for your children,and listen to the posters who say you are doing ok.