do your kids do as they're told when they're told to do it?

[thewomanwhothoughtshewasahat]

cos if they do I want to know your secret. probably like most parents I use a mix of the stick and carrot - which in our case usually comprises removing or adding beads to a pot, with beads adding up to treats. (ie the mn pasta jar but with beads) All well and good and it is pretty much guaranteed to get results. But I am fed up of it!!!!! I really cannot get dds to do anything without issuing a threat or a bribe and it's driving me up the wall. I really don;t want to have to count to 10 and take away or add beads for every single little thing. Has anyone found a less specific way of rewarding good behaviour which actually keeps them on their toes all (or at least most) of the time, as opposed to one where they only actually prick their ears up and do as they're told when they hear the word bead/pasta/star/sticker?

Will look up that book Punishment by Rewards as well, because it does make sense to me. Wish I had more time to be patient again, I was a really nice mother with DS1...and yes, it worked, he was an angel. But now he's more normal :o and needs better listening skills :)

Hatwoman ...they will do what you ask them eventually ..I really believe that the star chart stuff is kind of a 'training tool' ..eventually they DO just do it. My DD (now nearly 11) is really well behaved I'm so proud of her and I don't have to threaten, cajole, bargain or bribe (or count:)) I only did that when she was little .. sometimes it does feel like it'll always be like that though ..but then again sometimes it felt like she'd always be in nappies or that she'd never get the hang of using a knife and fork

That's what i'm hoping for as well, Aggie. I used the starchart about a year ago to get DS1 to dress himself, and after around 6 weeks or so, he just did it and no need for starchart anymore. The pastajar has, apart from encouraging the desired behaviour, the advantage that it teaches them about money and saving as well. But I do hope that I won't be using it forever.

womanwhothoughtshewasahat - I like you have often found myself using all manner of bribes and threats to get our day to day job done. All three children (8,6,4)have asked at different points whether they could have a star chart because they want the prize. I, too think, there must be a better way of doing this because whilst the short term effect is good - ie. they want the star/the prize for two weeks or so - it has absolutely no effect on their long term behaviour. It's easy to get into the rut of thinking/behaving this way - for me and the children.
I think it's a long climb out of this way of being though. Need to arrive at a point where they understand that it's team work to get the job done, with lots of praise along the way. I'd drop the pasta jar and prepare yourself for the long haul to where the kids do what you ask, because you ask, and understand that its in everyones best interest to behave as well as they can for most of the time.

well, would love to drop the sticker chart (and we've been doing it for longer than 6 weeks now!) but dd really does love it. I always try not to mention it unless i really have to (if she's not complying) and even if dd is in a nice mood & willing to comply she reminds me about the sticker herself. :( She would be most upset if i told her, right, we're not going to use it any more. So i'm hoping it will gradually fade out of existance.

fwiw, a while ago (a month or so) dd had stayed at my parents' for the weekend, just as i had to make a new sticker chart, so I held off making it to see if we could snap out of it. She didn't remember it at all, and was very good for 2 days, but esp at bedtime bad habits came back and I turned into frustrated screaming banshee mum again trying to get her to do as i said! So the sticker chart came back, life is much more fun & happy with it than without it. But have ordered that book F&Z and will be having a good old read!

The book sounds great, and I sometimes think that sticker charts are just a really good way of changing a pattern of behaviour that everyones got into - the child has something to aim for and the mum has something to say (other than, because I told you to, I'm going crazy here etc etc etc) but just not effective for the long term!

I just had a brainwave - I used the starchart only for getting dressed by himself in the morning, nothing else. Then after 6 weeks or so he got used to doing it himself and we forgot about the starchart. But my pastajar I use for every kind of disobedience, and I get what you get, Bourneville, he wants a pasta for everything he does right. I manage to steer clear of that by giving smiles, kisses and hugs instead a lot of the time, but it won't be easy to wean him off the pastajar. Perhaps it would work better if we singled out one type of behaviour? Just thinking out loud really, what do you think?

hugeheadofhair - it is specific things that are on dd's sticker chart, all related to dressing etc. I picked the areas i was having most difficulty with. Getting dressed, cleaning teeth, changing nappy, getting coat on, (then she gets the choc after tea) and then a special sticker at bedtime for getting ready for bath/getting dressed for bed etc. When I'm out & about and those things apply, if she plays up I say she won't get her sticker when we get home - or the choc after tea! If she does comply no problem i don't even mention the sticker.

The only other thing I can think of that I have to ask her to do that needs a consequence is help me tidy up. I'm not heavy about it - she's only 2.6 - but if she refuses point blank to help me AT ALL then she doesn't get an extra few books read to her before bath. I can also threaten not to read her bedtime story but prefer not to do that as of course it's an important part of bedtime routine! Whoever it was who said toys go in the bin - I like that! But I wouldn't like to have to carry the threat out!

Most other things have obvious consequences, which I really do prefer cos that's just a logical way to learn. For example, as adults, If we don't do the washing up we'll have a sinkful of dirty dishes & no clean ones to use. It's those things that i listed before that just need doing, full stop, there's no obvious tangible consequence to not doing it (other than not being able to go out, but that would only work if we were going somewhere she was desperate to go!) I do always point that out to her too though, as well as reminding about the sticker...

Have i answered your question? I feel like I've deviated ... i guess what i'm saying is that my sticker chart IS specific to certain things rather than general disobedience. I think someone told me dd was too young to really understand a pasta jar, so i didn't go for that one. And you were wondering if it would work better if it was specific, well, i do actually flounder a bit if something extra comes up which doesn't have an obvious consequence cos I have no idea how to get her to do what I want otherwise, so no, I don't think it does necessarily work better! I do think I could be so much more positive and exciting and fun asking her to do stuff, and also encourage her to do more herself (been v slow at teaching her to dress herself eg and she would be v keen to learn ) and offer choices etc. But all that takes so much energy and esp at the end of the day all i want to do is get her bathed and in bed!

quite unorthodox I realise but fingers crossed it seems to have worked. Those of you who have read my previous thread in that I was having problems with dd at school, answering back the teachers etc will be pleased to know that since last Wed evening her behaviour has improved 99% and she received the "Star of the Day" award last Friday. The only thing I can think of that has worked was that I was so cheesed off last Wed night that I got her by the arm and proceeded to drag her off to the local "childrens home" an old peoples home in disguise and she was really upset and promising to be good at school and lo and behold fingers crossed she has been very very very good at school so I think I must have frightened her :) The headmaster even called me today to thank me for my concerted effort and long may it last

Thank you for your answer, bourneville. I agree that 2.6 might be too young for a pasta jar, at that age they need more immediate rewards, don't they. I think you are doing great with what you do. You seem very organised and routines work very well too. One other tip that I might try to do that was on here was eyecontact. I don't think i always have their attention (even when I say their names first, which I always do) before asking them sth. And be more positive, and cheerful, instead of growling... Ah those good intentions...

NO

cheltenhamgal - are you serious about pretending to drag her off to a children's home? Sorry but that's emotionally abusive in my view.

lol

are you joking cheltenhamgal

course you are, aren't you?

I can't honestly say that my children do what I want all of the time, but generally speaking they are pretty good.
After having terrible problems with ds when he was 3.5/4, so bad that I had to take hime to an child psych I have a system that generally works in our house.
First of all, I am the grown-up and I believe that I know what is best for my children. I am open to discussion, and will hear objections but on things like bed-time, appropriate clothing & behaviour - I generally tend have more of a clue than they do!
On that basis, we have some simple house rules which both children know about and they apply to everyone who comes into our house - me included. (No hitting, no throwing balls or toys, no shouting & no nasty name calling.) Transgressions have consequences and I will carry them out.
I also try to praise all the well done things & the nice behaviour and I try really hard to praise the deed rather than just saying "good girl or good boy" all the time.
I have occasionally used a sticker chart to break a pattern of behaviour - but find that to be effective they have to have a very limited timespan & be used rarely.
I have found the whole discipline thing very hard and something that requires far more effort & attention than I had expected. However, I do think putting in that time & setting good practices in place does make life easier as you go on.

Also hope Cheltenhamgal is joking, that sounds very scary to me.

hugeheadofhair, thank you for your praise :) I too forget the eye contact thing a lot, I assume dd can obviously hear me & is being defiant, but in fact getting down and facing her and asking her seriously usually does work!

Bugsy2 - i don't like the "good girl" "bad girl" thing either. I NEVER use "bad girl" but I frequently say good girl automatically but usually try and say "well done" instead or better still, name exactly what it is that she has done well too!

chelten whatsit she better be joking! sounds too serious to me though. :(

Cheltenhamgal I am hoping for the sake of your lo that you did not happen. Ok you're not behaving so Mummy is going to dump you is such a terrible message to give a child. If you did do that you shold be ashamed.

Cheltenhamgal - My mam once packed my bags and put them next the front door - i remember this very clearly and it hasn't left me with happy memories at all.

I think its terrible you did this (if its not a joke) and it could leave your child feeling unloved and unwanted and to influence any persons behaviour in any situation out of fear is wrong.

My mum once made me and my brother (aged 11 and 13) pack up all our belongings/clothes into boxes, then loaded us into the car with them and drove us to my dad's house. He was out celebrating (it was 10pm-ish on New Year's Eve) so she dumped us in the garden in the rain with all our stuff. We sat on the boxes crying because we were afraid he would come home drunk and be angry. About an hour later she turned up, loaded us back into the car and drove us home again. In the car she simply said "XXX, you can leave any time you like, but Greensleeves isn't going anywhere."

If cheltenhamgal is already threatening that little girl with abandonment, I worry for her future. If you were joking cg, please say so.

My parents and the lodger used to joke with us about sending us to boarding school. It really was a joke though, and so obviously a joke, it washed right over me, but my dsis took it seriously all the time sensitive soul that she is! She used to get quite upset! So even in a loving stable family where something like that is used as a joke can have ramifications.

I too hope you are joking cheltenhamgal, as to threaten to not want your chiold anymore if she doesn't behave is using a sledgehammer to crack a nut, and the nut in question is your little girl.

bb and Greensleaves how awful. There's no excuse for putting children through that.

sorry it has taken me so long to reply I was on my lunch at the time I posted, I was partly joking I am really at my wits end and dont know what else to do, that is really what I would have like to have done as nothing else is working, not praising, not giving positive attention, nothing at all and if she carries on then the school are likely to exclude her and then I wont be able to work as the kids club is attached so sorry I should have thought before i posted (ashamed)

cheltenhamgal ,sorry you're having a hard time but i'm confused, what part was a joke? re read your post and it seems pretty clear that you did actually threaten to put her in the children's home? That is what the rest of us are shocked about, we haven't thought you actually did it?