do your kids do as they're told when they're told to do it?

[thewomanwhothoughtshewasahat]

cos if they do I want to know your secret. probably like most parents I use a mix of the stick and carrot - which in our case usually comprises removing or adding beads to a pot, with beads adding up to treats. (ie the mn pasta jar but with beads) All well and good and it is pretty much guaranteed to get results. But I am fed up of it!!!!! I really cannot get dds to do anything without issuing a threat or a bribe and it's driving me up the wall. I really don;t want to have to count to 10 and take away or add beads for every single little thing. Has anyone found a less specific way of rewarding good behaviour which actually keeps them on their toes all (or at least most) of the time, as opposed to one where they only actually prick their ears up and do as they're told when they hear the word bead/pasta/star/sticker?

Mine do 9.9 times out of 10, I think because I have the potential to become a screeching banshee and they sense that. I try and keep things as calm and quiet as possible.
If they dont, really dont...like refuse to move, I threaten to remove a sticker/toy whatever and it generally works.
If that doesnt, because they are tired, fed up, pissed off whatever I will pick them up and place them where I want then to be and tell them (read that as growl) to get it done now and count from 5 to 1. Usually done by 3...

I threaten ds (4) by saying if you don't do whatever "there will be no Lazytown" (his fave prog). The only time I've ever had to go through with this was when he ran into the road one day on the way back from nursery.

mine do - occasionally they are lippy but all i have to say is "how very dare you" then they scuttle off and do what i have asked.

its about tone of voice.
good manners
a balance of praise and punishment. and this is where most people fuck up. you see its so easy to shout all the time becuase your emotions are telling you too - that when they are good and quiet - all you think is " thank the fucking lord!" instead of praising them for good behaviour.

think about your relationship with your parents - most people when they think about it realise that even as adults your paretns weild the most amazing power over you dont they?

imagine the invisilbe power you have as a parent. its great , its enormous its its......love.

your children crave it, they want it, show me affection show me love, ok i'll settle for a look my way. look at me look at me. ok ok err thats not working " bash" suddenly little baby just got hit in the face with a tractor and all holy shit let loose.

even as adults we want out parents approval and affection. your kids need to see this.

but you dont need to be nice all the time. if you think you are doing your best to strike that balance and your kids still act like little gits, then punish them.

i used to punish wth isolation from the rest of family for a while.

its about being aware of yourself enough to strike that balance of remembering to praise good behaviour, good manners,

and most of all - recognise they want to be involved with you. they want to help you shopping, cleaning, cooking. they want to help you they love your praise, just let them polish a talbe or something.

y' know what. my mum used to give my eldest son a paint roller and washing up bubbles. - my son then used to "paint" the wall in the garden with foam. sometimes she even let him do it in the house ( i wouldnt but she did)

that ultimatley illustrates how useful they want to be becuase they want to hear " how could i ever manage without you...thats so wonderful, how helpful are you, please will you help me tomorrow?

they love it when you beg. and pretend cry. " oh such a beautiful picture for my wall, will you do me anothe one? a flower"
"i do you a house?"
"no please can i have a flower? plllllllllllllllease, < fake cry > pllllllllllleaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaase"

my kids used to stoke my hair or the one that made ( and still does) makes me piss miself is the condescending par on the back, with a resigned sigh and "okkkayy then"

oh i waffled a lot - what nice memories there ta v. much!

that was "stroke" my hair and "pat" on the back

Custy loved your post!

I find this quite hard to get right!

Mine were unbearably irritating yesterday - just didn't listen to a thing we said to them or asked them to do. To be fair, this is quite unusual!

So I told them that all electronic items were banned today after school, no TV, no phone, no computer, no gameboys!

They moaned a bit today - think they thought I would have forgotten about it - but actually we ended up having a really fun evening! Perhaps as Custy says, because they actually got a lot more attention from us (playing table football, monopoly etc) than they would normally!

The other added bonus is that by being 'horrible parents' they were bonded to each other so much that they forgot the usual sibling rivalry so were in full thick as thieves act, which was nice to see!

So having rambled on this much, really I should just have said 'I agree with Custy'

so much agree with you, custardo, that attention is IME what children crave.

It's so easy to forget the positive attention thing. Expect your kids to talk to you the way you talk to them. Politeness and respect is expected both ways. That's what it's all about for kids. Any attention is good attention, even if they're being hollered at and sent to their rooms, arguing all the way.

It's taken me years but I can now calmly ignore my 12 year old ds1 banging his feet as hard as poss up the stairs, thumping the wall as he goes, muttering under his breath that I am the witch-mother from hell and banging his door open and shut 6 times hoping for a reaction. He used to get one - big time. Now though - he gets "Oh, ds1 do grow up, dear!" And dh gets, "Calm down dear - it's only a tantrum!"

Tone of voice is key and in any case, what I say goes in my house. I am the boss. No one argues with me. My word is final. No negotiations will be entered into.

And a big fat hug and soppy kiss before they go to bed.

I would like to praise custardo for her good post

yes custardo's absolutely right, for children attention=love.

ditto custy.

Mine do and as with custy are occasionally lippy or march off in a sulk. It's all about consistency as well as the things that custy mentioned (love, positive praise, appropriate punishment much as people hate the word).

Years ago, long before the current avalanche of tv series there was a program about a little boy that his parents could do nothing with. The two things from that program that were very effective for me were -
Always make eye contact when talking to them.
Don't say 'Mummy would like...", say "I would like..."
These 2 simple things really made a difference to me and my son.

same as Malory

mine are good really

positive praise really works

find pasta jars/charts a total PITA

Some very good advice here, so can I hijack this thread for advise on what to do with my 21 month old, who is constantly hitting his sister, and me sometimes? Have tried telling him "no" firmly and praising him when he listens. doesn't really work. he won't stay put on a naughty step, so now trying giving him a five minute time out in his crib in another room. he howls the house down, poor chap. too young for stickers, I think.

Hi poppadum ..have you tried giving your dd more attention when your ds hits her - and ignoring him? Try picking her up, making a fuss of her and walking away from him- out of the room - that way he will be getting less attention for hitting her rather than more. Would have to advise against using cot for time out as it can make bedtimes more difficult. At 21 months reinforcement needs to be fairly instant - I would save 'time out' until he is old enough to understand that 'time out (2 mins) doesn't start until he is sitting quietly on time out step/chair' and 'time out starts again every time he leaves step/chair'

I'm just reading a book called "Punished By Rewards" which looks at research that rewards such as stickers, bribes, or even praise if used as a reward for good behaviour, actually undermines the child's basic motivation to behave well and makes them dependent on external rewards to achieve anything at all.

I keep mentioning it to people, who always ask "what are we supposed to do instead then?" I can't answer that yet as I am only on Chapter 5. :o

I think what the book is getting at is that if your child doesn't want to do something, look at the reasons why before getting heavy handed. It says the best way to motivate someone to so something that is basically boring or unpleasant is to acknowledge that it's a pain, remind them of the ultimate goal (i.e. brushing your teeth will keep them clean and healthy) and give them as much control as possible over how the task is performed. If you can't justify why you are asking them to do it then maybe you are placing too much importance on something that doesn't really matter.

I would definitely recommend this book and trying to move away from star charts and pasta jars and all that faff. I would not take kindly to anyone trying to change my behaviour using treats and bribes, it would feel insulting to me.

"I would not take kindly to anyone trying to change my behaviour using treats and bribes"

Payment is the main reason I go to work :)

Ah but as you have said yourself that is payment, not a reward decided by someone else's appraisal of your work. He does talk about bonuses etc. in the book and again concludes that they decrease motivation, morale and creativity.

But for being so serious about it. I am quite converted so far, though, it's a great book.

This thread is really interesting and full of good advice. DD2 (just turned 3) is a nightmare at arguing back over everything I ask her to do. I haven't ever used sticker charts but do use consequences" as Filyjonk suggested - eg toys not tidied up will be thrown away! However I seem to remember DD1 went through a similar phase but now is a good girl (most of the time!) Sadly though I think it is just that she is a different kind of girl to her little sis who is always going to be difficult...

This thread is really interesting and full of good advice. DD2 (just turned 3) is a nightmare at arguing back over everything I ask her to do. I haven't ever used sticker charts but do use consequences" as Filyjonk suggested - eg toys not tidied up will be thrown away! However I seem to remember DD1 went through a similar phase but now is a good girl (most of the time!) Sadly though I think it is just that she is a different kind of girl to her little sis who is always going to be difficult...

LOL at custardo's post - Ilove the bit about roller & bubbles.

Ds is only 2, so haven't had to resort to star charts and pasta jars yet.

But like F&Z, sometimes I wonder about how to get your children to do as you want, without HAVING to resort to stickers or pasta.

I like the GP's tone in quanglewangles post.
I will try more praise.

Saying that, watch this space, I'm sure I'll be on pasta jars within a week !!!

LOL at custardo's post - Ilove the bit about roller & bubbles.

Ds is only 2, so haven't had to resort to star charts and pasta jars yet.

But like F&Z, sometimes I wonder about how to get your children to do as you want, without HAVING to resort to stickers or pasta.

I like the GP's tone in quanglewangles post.
I will try more praise.

Saying that, watch this space, I'm sure I'll be on pasta jars within a week !!!

threats, TBH...

And they do work! Threats like "I will count to three. If you are not sitting at the table by the time I coult to three, I will put your dinner in the bin." Gener ally I get as far as "I will count to three...."

I also use (first, before I threaten) Ask, Tell, Act.
"Please come and sit at the table, dinner is ready"
"Come and sit down now, it is time to eat dinner"
"Right, I will count to three...."

It does end up being a little long winded, but it works.

And sometimes I use bribery and this works well too, like

"Put your coat on right now and you can have a banana to walk into town with."

"If you walk all the way home without moaning about it, we will make cakes after dinner."

My poor ds! He must feel totally coerced!

And the assumption that he was going to do it anyway!

Like, "When you have picked up all your toys, we are going to the park."