Don't want to continue husband's 'familial middle name'

[HoitiToiti]

We are in the process of deciding on a name for our son. I'm Irish and dh is Irish too but 'Anglo-Irish' as he'd say.

We are going for an Irish first name. Want a 'Gaelic' middle name too.

DH's middle name is Thomas. His father's middle name is Thomas, his grandfather's middle name was Thomas. His great grandfather's middle name was Thomas. His great great grandfather's first name was Thomas.

DH and DMil really want out child to have the middle name Thomas. I don't like it too much. I suggested Tomás as it's an Irish form, but they are insisting on Thomas.

DMil says it is important to keep the name as it's a 'family' thing. The great great grandfather was a successful businessman in Dublin... who moved to Ireland from England. He was born in 1850 something I'm told, and is where dh's parent's modest amount of 'family money' comes from... which they have since spent the last of on Caribbean cruises...

Plus if I am honest this seems like an attempt to align the baby with your side of the family and their beliefs which is absolutely not fair to your DH or the baby.

Sounds like exactly what they are doing by "insisting" she must use it, to me. I can't believe people don't see that.

I would give the baby two middle names, @HoitiToiti - that way you can use Thomas, but also add another name so his initials aren't STD. Eg S... Conal Thomas D.... - SCTD.

Really not sure what it’s got to with your MIL. Surely she had her turn at naming her children? Whose surname is the baby going to have? Yours or your husbands?

We have a name like this in my family. First born son to first born son for 300 years. My brother has only had girls but have said they won’t use it for a boy if they have more children anyway. So we’re using it as it means a lot to my dad. (DC1 has a family name from DH side). It’s a really inoffensive name, not using it is a bit petty if your DH is keen to carry on the tradition.

From your update it seems the child will have your husband's family's surname, so I really don't get the argument that you're trying to avoid giving him their 'family name'. If DH's family thinks family names are so important, and your child will have their surname, surely the middle name comes from your family not theirs?

Give him two middle names if you can.

Would maybe keep everyone happy?

This is tantamount to saying your family's political views are more important than his family's views.

Basically this is coming down to you being worried your family will think if you as a West Brit. Well, if they think of you as a West Brit just because you use the name Thomas instead of Tomás as a middle name while still having an Irish first name that will be used every day, then they are extremely petty so fuck them.

I have a familial middle name (which makes my initials spell a word too). It's a ridiculous name, but has continued down the family for generations on the maternal side. It will, unfortunately, die with me as I don't have a DD, but if I had, I would have continued it, even though I'm not keen on it.

Realistically, your middle name very rarely ever gets used unless you're setting up a bank account or a passport. Heck, quite a few people in my office don't even use their real first names!

This really wouldn't concern me. To avoid the STD thing, I'd add in another middle name to break it up. Perhaps just not something beginning with U though...

Put Thomas in somewhere.
My family use the same names in each generation. It helps with genealogy, especially the John Edmunds.

You keep changing the goalposts here tbh. Why would you only have an additional middle name if you went for Tomás and not Thomas?

Somewhat petty to refuse. Can always give 2 middle names

I would stop having a culture war with your MIL and focus on what you and your DH want.
Why don't you each pick a middle name?

My DP's father and grandfather had a hideous middle name.No idea how DP escaped it because he's the eldest,his younger brother got lumbered with it and refused to give it to his son.

Agree with this.
For my son we jointly agreed first name, but I asked to chose middle name as he was already getting husband's surname.
Whatever you decide, it needs to be between you and your husband only - it's not your MIL's business.

Well I too see it’s no big deal- have 2 middle names

BUT, I’d also make the point that Baby is also, presumably, going to get that exact family surname that also belonged to this patriarchal ancestor. Bit bloody greedy that he gets lumbered with 2 ancient names from husbands family

so, you get sole choice on first name and extra middle name - that’s fair

Nooo - you can't do that to a child!

Just have two middle names seriously

Yes this

I am wondering what else is sitting behind your annoyance about the name, are they over bearing? The type of family that everything has to be their way? I am guessing the name is not the issue here.

There is no way on gods earth I would insist on my dc or insist any family member that they must use this name or that for their newborns child. It’s incredibly controlling and intrusive. It’s very old fashioned.

I think you both have to like the name. You can’t give a name that be if you dislikes. The sentimental reason is just manipulative to be honest

I like the name Thomas, I think if it's a middle name you could just use it and almost forget about it.

"My point about Anglo is that MIL is very 'West Brit' whereas my family are die hard nationalists from the west of ireland... we clash not only politically but culturally too.... do you see what I mean?"

Boys a dear, it's as well it's the early 2020s not the early 1920s and a (benign, reasonably ambiguous sounding, middle ) name is all an Irish extended family has to fight about.

Your whole family may have managed to stay politically, culturally and religiously "pure" for centuries up now but I think they need to build a bridge and get over it. You can always promise to send the wain to the Connemara gaeltacht in the summers instead of/after rugby tots camp or whatever the D4 prods do. Take some photos of the kid in a red and green O'Neills jersey for your family whatsapp group, that kind of thing. Or, if either family are overstepping and pissing you and DH off you can send the O'Neills jersey pics to the inlaws family whatsapp group and the Canterbury jersey pics to the Mayo clan just for the windup lolz.

I would say no. I wouldn’t be comfortable continuing patterns of patriarchy in this way. What happens with your next child and she is a girl?

I think you should make it absolutely fucking clear that MIL doesn't get a vote in anything.

You're not going to be raising this baby by committee and she needs to step back.

Re: the name - Thomas is an inoffensive name. If your DH likes it then swap that choice for something you care more about.

Don't give him an English second name if you don't want to. He's getting his da's surname that's plenty. I understand the cultural context you're talking about and I'd probably want to make it clear ds will not be following the traditions of that side