Page 12 | DD hates her name and surname

9thFloorNightmare · 2023-01-25T22:21:29+00:00

She is 15 now. The pregnancy was so good, the only issue was finding a name! I could not choose. It was agony. One day, just before her birth, I woke up from a lovely afternoon nap, the TV was on and 1st thing I heard / saw was an ad of a product with a human and - the image of a lovely young girl (I didn't know the baby's sex). Right at that time I decided if she was a girl she would have that name. It is an international (could be pretty much from a lot of different countries and cultures) short, simple, easy to spell, sounds good (to my ears) name. In hindsight I could have choses a middle name, but I jus't couldn't ;( She hates it. Hates her surname too which is a traditional surname in the UK. Any one dealing with the same at home?

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YetMoreNewBeginnings · 27/01/2023 08:50

But isn’t the point that her name is (at the OP’s admission) more like Maya Smith?

if it’s after a product people will see the link instantly. People aren’t daft.

People really don’t bat an eyelid. It’s far more common than people realise.

it’s less common for a man to change their surname which may be why he occasionally gets a raised eyebrow.

BloodAndFire · 27/01/2023 08:58

squigglypasta · 26/01/2023 20:16

I think if you stop to read my posts, you'll see that we're on the same page! I did say not to mention it to her, that would be a ridiculous thing to say to a young woman.

If she really hates her name, by no means does she have to wait around for marriage – whether to a man or woman – to change that.

But we're all adults on this forum and we can acknowledge that oftentimes misogynistic practices are societally expedient. People on MN get married to a man all the time despite the fact that marriage is itself an archaic, often gender unequal institution that for example many in the Nordic cultures no longer practice. Or – I've never seen anyone unsolicitedly dissuade anyone else on this forum from wearing a white wedding dress despite the origins of this western practice being slut shaming. Is it "depressing" to mention weddings and wedding dresses on MN?

I've known a few unfortunate surnames. A Hardcock I knew my uni hated her surname. Later on she became a - I can't remember, but something generic like Brown through marriage. Her brother wouldn't have that option. Neither would a Mr Assman I know who gets mocked a fair bit! (Sidenote: the origins of his surname are quite beautiful, the mocking was ethnocentric so maybe this is not the best example, but he didn't like it anyway)

For most people, it would be a palaver plus possibly embarrassing to change your surname, and have to explain it repeatedly personally and professionally. This is more of a natural transition and you don't have to do a whole song and dance about it. Plus you don't have to brainstorm a new emotionally significant surname either, if you're the kind short on inspiration.

Of course 1) some are more confident and thick skinned than others, by all means go for it! 2) I'm not saying anyone should get married just TO change their surname, that's a determined misreading of it 🙄 I'm sure the main thing was that ms hardcock loved her husband. It's just a convenient 2 in 1 if you want.

Less extremely, I've also heard a few British women say they low key prefer their marriage surname (on an aesthetic basis). In fact, if you don't go double barrelled or keep your own surname, maybe the man and woman can pick the one they like best out of the 2.

To be very honest, I think maybe you're just trying to be a bit difficult about a throwaway comment? As I've said before, in East Asian culture we don't take a husband's name, so obviously I personally don't subscribe to the practice.

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No. We are not 'on the same page' even a little bit.

Not in a million years would I be recommending that women should 'go along with the misogyny' because it's 'expedient' or to 'be kind'.

I also had a friend at university who strongly disliked her surname and hated her parents. She changed her name shortly after graduation and has been going by her new name for 20+ years with no issues. She's getting married this year - good thing she didn't wait or she'd have spent 2 more decades with her horrible name.

Funny how it's always the man's surname which is more aesthetically pleasing, isn't it?

Oh and fwiw, I am not a fan of white dresses, being 'given away', wedding rings or any other patriarchal trappings of marriage.

squigglypasta · 27/01/2023 09:36

@BloodAndFire I think you're just trying really hard to be difficult tbh! And succeeding!

Like this accusation coming from nowhere which completely boggles my mind: "Funny how it's always the man's surname which is more aesthetically pleasing, isn't it?"

I literally mentioned a Mr Hardcock and a Mr Assman, plus said: "In fact, if you don't go double barrelled or keep your own surname, maybe the man and woman can pick the one they like best out of the 2." I also said hopefully: "And maybe in time this option will be open to men too!"

Other posters have mentioned (male) people being hesitant to jettison their adoptive family name due to fears of hurting them, so it's obviously a real dilemma.

We clearly just have different personalities/cultural ideals, so I don't think you have to keep trying to frame me as some dyed in the wool misogynist, possibly also because of stereotypes you have about people from other cultures (interestingly, you're not engaging other posters on this thread acknowledging the social and other difficulties of name changes).

I don't care if a man or woman wants to go scorched earth, change their name loud and proud and unprompted, have to try to repair family's hurt feelings, have to explain themselves repeatedly to all and sundry socially + professionally/while networking (especially if established in your career under old name), have to justify themselves officially in paperwork + interviews (and for me as someone globally mobile, the name change history might look suspicious on + slow down visa applications), and so on.

That is totally valid and great. And for women who have been socialised into niceness, doubly great. But great for men too – not many men with surnames they hate are able to do that either.

For me though, whether I were a man or woman, I would just prefer a more natural transition if possible. As I've said, it would be great if men could subtly change their name through marriage. The current practice in Britain is that women change their surnames, which is why I referenced that. And - surprise surprise, OP's daughter is a woman, as far as we know. It's not a recommendation. It was a casual observation of options available to her, if she somehow gets to that point without having taken action on the particular matter of her surname.

You're so adamant that she must keep her own (family or newly chosen) surname upon marriage, but that's entirely her choice. Just as it is her choice to get married if she wants to, rather than not buy in to the misogynistic institution of marriage.

Yes, marriage doesn't have to be fundamentally misogynistic if some elements are improved. Neither does a marriage name change. As I've mentioned before, I think it would be a nice idea for the "women takes surname" tradition to evolve with a married couple picking 1 name between them, whether out of their existing family names, or a newly and mutually created one.

Oh and fwiw, I am not a fan of white dresses, being 'given away', wedding rings or any other patriarchal trappings of marriage

Great, go troll other wedding threads then, instead of creatively inventing things I haven't said.

I have no doubt you'll find a way to twist what I've written so let's not engage further!

squigglypasta · 27/01/2023 09:42

One last thing - I wasn't defending marriage above - I am in a long term deliberately unmarried relationship.

I was making the point that your outrage seems very selective. If you want to object to my even mentioning name changes, why not just object wholesale to anyone mentioning marriage at all? It was literally created as, and has continued as, a gender unequal union. Again, selective outrage.

BloodAndFire · 27/01/2023 09:45

@squigglypasta

possibly also because of stereotypes you have about people from other cultures

more than happy not to engage further, but I would appreciate if you didn't try to insinuate that I'm a racist.

especially as I've pointed out on this thread that I'm also from a non-British, non-White background.

that is a really low blow, completely unjustified by anything I've said, and you should apologise for it.

obviously you won't, but other posters should be aware in case they were considering replying to you, that you're likely to throw around accusations like this with no basis.

Really scummy way to behave.

Mummyof3Me2021 · 27/01/2023 09:58

Miley

squigglypasta · 27/01/2023 10:00

@BloodAndFire apologies – perhaps projection on my part.

I've seen so many comments on MN plus other British forums asking "are they from a culture that doesn't respect women", talking about other "backward" cultures, and so on... Completely ignoring the fact that the UK (Victorian norms) is primarily responsible for a massive amount of misogynistic, homophobic, generally punitive legislation in like fifty countries around the world. (Many of these existing laws still carry the same name the British rulers enacted them under mere decades ago.)

So yes apologies, I think I've come to expect those double standards / ignorant stereotypes as the default attitude, and was being way oversensitive in this case.

squigglypasta · 27/01/2023 10:01

Ignorant – not even about other cultures, but about their own history

So again, apologies. I don't want to be seen as having played the race card.

BloodAndFire · 27/01/2023 10:04

@squigglypasta

Thank you for the apology, i appreciate it.

Yes, there is a huge amount of racism and misogyny in the uk and a failure to recognise those aspects of British culture. But not the case here.

BellePeppa · 27/01/2023 10:39

WimpoleHat · 26/01/2023 19:14

I don’t think the names are relevant, it’s the fact she hates them. What does it matter to us if her name is Mary, Susan, Maria or Cinderella?

While changing your name by deed poll is perfectly possible legally, it is something that you’ll carry for life. Lots of forms require “other names used” to be declared and, from knowing someone who did this, it raises questions as to why. In his case, working in financial services, there was always a suggestion of fraud somewhere. Because it’s a really unusual thing to do. And - as a pp has said - what you think would be a “cool” name at 15 isn’t necessarily what you’ll like at 50. So - if her name is Mary or Susan, they’re perfectly normal names and ones that she might like better as an older woman. So I’d probably encourage her to try a nickname or to feel more positively about it. If her name is Cinderella? Very different kettle of fish.

My name is a ‘normal’ name, in fact a close friend has the same name, and a well known actress has the same name, they don’t appear to have a problem with it. I absolutely hate it for me and I have since I was tiny, I don’t hate it for others so to me the actual name of the OP’s DD is irrelevant to us, the readers. The name doesn’t have to be a universally hated name it just has to be the person who was given it who hates it - for them.

BellePeppa · 27/01/2023 10:45

Shecrazy · 26/01/2023 23:54

Is her name Celine?

If it is, it's quite an unusual name for a 15 year old, and would be associated with Celine Dion probably (although I think she's Canadian not American, so maybe not).

I know the name doesn't really matter, but if everyone keeps singing 'my heart will go on' at her with arms outstretched a la Kate Winslet and Leonardo DiCaprio, I can see that would get rather irritating over time 😬

I love the name Celine. I’d be very happy to have that.

Original poster

9thFloorNightmare · 27/01/2023 11:03

Shecrazy · 26/01/2023 23:54

Is her name Celine?

If it is, it's quite an unusual name for a 15 year old, and would be associated with Celine Dion probably (although I think she's Canadian not American, so maybe not).

I know the name doesn't really matter, but if everyone keeps singing 'my heart will go on' at her with arms outstretched a la Kate Winslet and Leonardo DiCaprio, I can see that would get rather irritating over time 😬

not Celine

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Original poster

9thFloorNightmare · 27/01/2023 11:06

Agapornis · 27/01/2023 00:51

Have you told her she is named after a product?

I know two people whose names are inspired by a product, and while they look like normal names, they hate that their parents named them after a product.

The product is named after a human

I have never used that product

I like the name and the product just brought the name to my awareness

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Tdcp · 27/01/2023 11:18

Is it Alexa?

Original poster

9thFloorNightmare · 27/01/2023 11:19

This thread genereate an interesting dialogue about the ways of the world which I’m very happy with

I don’t feel safe to reveal the name and surname - and it isn’t even mine to reveal, it doesn’t sound right to me that I write DD’s name here even if she can not be tracked down

She has shorten her name by one letter and it sounds nice

For the ones making jokes using products that are clearly not human names - I sincerely hope you had fun:)

For the ones complaining that the thread is ridiculous and pointless: what are you doing here? Go to a post that is fullfilling to you! No one forced you to read and participate

If the name was so strongly associated with the product to the point people couldn’t think of nothing else when hearing it and it causing bullying etc, how come no one guessed it correctly yet even though I gave two very revealing clues? Obviously the connection with the product is very subtle.

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Original poster

9thFloorNightmare · 27/01/2023 11:19

*generated

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BloodAndFire · 27/01/2023 11:21

You are of course right not to share your daughter's name.

You shouldn't have included all the info about how you came up with it in your first post, because people have just got stuck on the idea that it's a stupid novelty product name.

I also don't really understand why you then gave a 'clue' (the US singer) if you didn't want people to keep guessing!

Calphurnia88 · 27/01/2023 11:26

9thFloorNightmare · 27/01/2023 11:06

The product is named after a human

I have never used that product

I like the name and the product just brought the name to my awareness

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Flora is an uncommon human name, but most people would associate it with butter. I'm more of a Lurpak girl myself, but I am very much aware that Flora butter exists and if I met a girl called Flora I would probably think oh, like the butter. I wouldn't say it though because she probably gets it all the time and finds it annoying.

That's not a guess by the way, but an example.

Now if there was also a very famous American singer called Flora, and people also said oh, like the singer and maybe even sang Flora songs at Flora, that could get really annoying for her. She might wish she had a different name and even feel angry towards the person that gave her that name.

I'm not trying to be an arse here btw, but you might need to consider that even nice names can lead to bullying.

Sugarfree23 · 27/01/2023 11:28

Funny how it's always the man's surname which is more aesthetically pleasing, isn't it?

Well no, I know of a Mr Onions who was most upset that Mr Onions Jr decided to become Mr Wifesname. In a bid to save their future kids going through school with many 🌰 Onions jokes

saraclara · 27/01/2023 11:31

ohlookout · 26/01/2023 07:43

These fucking guessing games are tedious

Are you (and others) seriously suggesting the OP put her teenaged daughter's full name on a very popular public forum? Really?

WhoppingBigBackside · 27/01/2023 11:42

@Calphurnia88 , Flora isn't butter

Mirabai · 27/01/2023 11:46

No-one was expecting her full name for obvious reasons - but a first name shared with a famous US singer can hardly be identifying.

Calphurnia88 · 27/01/2023 11:47

WhoppingBigBackside · 27/01/2023 11:42

@Calphurnia88 , Flora isn't butter

*spread (?)

Oops!

As I said, I don't use it so I just think of it as butter. Hopefully that doesn't distract too much from the analogy 😇

Original poster

9thFloorNightmare · 27/01/2023 11:57

BloodAndFire · 27/01/2023 11:21

You are of course right not to share your daughter's name.

You shouldn't have included all the info about how you came up with it in your first post, because people have just got stuck on the idea that it's a stupid novelty product name.

I also don't really understand why you then gave a 'clue' (the US singer) if you didn't want people to keep guessing!

to make the point it is a normal and acceptable human name rather than something ridiculous

MN attracts some weird people

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Original poster

9thFloorNightmare · 27/01/2023 12:00

Calphurnia88 · 27/01/2023 11:26

Flora is an uncommon human name, but most people would associate it with butter. I'm more of a Lurpak girl myself, but I am very much aware that Flora butter exists and if I met a girl called Flora I would probably think oh, like the butter. I wouldn't say it though because she probably gets it all the time and finds it annoying.

That's not a guess by the way, but an example.

Now if there was also a very famous American singer called Flora, and people also said oh, like the singer and maybe even sang Flora songs at Flora, that could get really annoying for her. She might wish she had a different name and even feel angry towards the person that gave her that name.

I'm not trying to be an arse here btw, but you might need to consider that even nice names can lead to bullying.

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People her age are not even aware the singer exists - and to be reminded of that singer would be an honour IMO - and older people who might know the singer would not be so childish I hope - unless they are some MNetters of course

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