Pretentious?

[SummaLuvin]

I see a number of names being knocked or dismissed here as certain posters deem them pretentious. Names like Aloysius, Lysander, Montgomery, Peregrine…

I guess this post has four questions/discussion points.

1. What makes a name pretentious?
2. Why does pretentious = unusable?
3. Surely by marking these names as off limits to ‘normal’ people they keep they air of pretension indefinitely, wider use will water down the preconceived notions about them?
4. I see a significantly larger amount of boys names labelled this way than girls, I wonder why that is?

Corbally i agree

RosesAndHellebores

I think a lot depends on what their peers are likely to be names. Horatio at Eton or Westminster is a lot less pretentious than at the local comp.

And there you have it, snobbery personified. Know your place, peasants!

I hadn’t heard about the poor lad who was killed by the polar bear, what an awful way to go
It is very sad.
Probably some people find it harder to empathise once they know that he was so very clearly from a different world. The name Horatio does mark him apart from the man on the street. There were only 5 Horatios born that year (1997), compared to over 10,000 Jacks which was the #1 name. I just watched a tribute from the boy’s friend Nick, who, assuming it’s short for Nicholas and not Nicodemus, probably wouldn’t have received the same extent of backlash. It’s not fair but it’s probably true.

Magnus is a normal name in north Scotland, particularly in Orkney. I know three- it has never occurred to me than anyone would find it a pretentious name.

I associate Aloysius with "Roman Catholic family" rather than "pretentious family." Mind you, the motto of St Aloysius School in Glasgow is "I am born for greater things"

I think something else interesting is that I think that the pretentiousness of names can be elevated by their siblings. People might have a different view of the parents with sons called James, Lysander and Albert compared to Cornelius, Lysander and Odysseus.

@50ShadesOfCatholic

RosesAndHellebores

I think a lot depends on what their peers are likely to be names. Horatio at Eton or Westminster is a lot less pretentious than at the local comp.

And there you have it, snobbery personified. Know your place, peasants!

It works both ways. Your name , alongside other attributes, idientifies your tribe. I imagine you don't get many upper class people using perfectly lovely lower class names. I recall there being a lot of controversy over Megan Markles choice of Archie for her first born and again lisbeth, but for different reasons.

@Srettel

Magnus is a normal name in north Scotland, particularly in Orkney. I know three- it has never occurred to me than anyone would find it a pretentious name.

I associate Aloysius with "Roman Catholic family" rather than "pretentious family." Mind you, the motto of St Aloysius School in Glasgow is "I am born for greater things"

I knew a boy called Magnus that went to St Aloysius School

My baby’s name is ridiculously pretentious and I love it.

It’s been mentioned upthread.

I’ve probably made it worse with two middle names and a bonkers double-barrelled surname.

Probably luckily for him it has a three-letter shortening for every day. I’m a teacher of many years and didn’t want anything bland or with negative associations which ruled out basically everything “normal”.

I still love it and hope he does too, when he’s old enough to spell it…

Interestingly (and this is based on evidence, but it's not a huge sample) as the so-called pretentious names are moving 'downmarket', the truly posh are starting to call their daughters Ann and Elizabeth and Jane again.

I would more likely find an "out there" name to be non-British or mixed nationality.

truly posh are starting to call their daughters Ann and Elizabeth and Jane again.

Classical names never went away really. Look at royal family.

@Srettel

Magnus is a normal name in north Scotland, particularly in Orkney. I know three- it has never occurred to me than anyone would find it a pretentious name.

I associate Aloysius with "Roman Catholic family" rather than "pretentious family." Mind you, the motto of St Aloysius School in Glasgow is "I am born for greater things"

I think this is to do with the context point that Roses was making. I am in SE England and find Magnus very pretentious, but it’s not a name that’s part of my cultural context - whereas in Scotland it is part of the cultural norm, so wouldn’t have the same connotation.

@Bideshi

Interestingly (and this is based on evidence, but it's not a huge sample) as the so-called pretentious names are moving 'downmarket', the truly posh are starting to call their daughters Ann and Elizabeth and Jane again.

I have a very small Jane. I am also very posh.

I love Jane! And Magnus and Lysander btw. But unfortunately I am not posh and live in an area where generally names tend to be more "modern" style or trendy sorts (Jane would likely get called a "Grandma" name/old-fashioned and Magnus and Lysander "try hard"/posh - so I'm just not sure it would be fair on my kids).

Even timeless classic types like William and Elizabeth are probably borderline - I've had comments like "but there are so many nice modern names" when I mention my potential choices (like William, Edward, Hugh etc) for DS when asked. There seem to be lots of Teddy's, Theo's, Milo's, Leo's, Evie's, Ivy's, Ava's, Isla's etc where I am.

I love Jane too, and Mary. But our surname is too plain to use them

Pretentious is okay but I do find it quite tragic that so many British people are always trying to emulate the upper classes. None of the U-C people I know are particularly remarkable. And I can't help thinking that trying to ape them in this way is just another version of forelock tugging.

I don’t think it’s about trying to emulate the upper classes. If it was about that then surely you’d be calling your children George and Elizabeth. For me (at least) I just happen to like names that other people call pretentious. Obviously I haven’t formed my taste in names is a vacuum, but I think very few people think “people will think I’m so posh and clever if I call my children Lysander and Antigone”.

I agree with a pp who said pretentious implies a kind of social fraud.

It is odd when classical or historical names are given without parents having a clue about their origins. Remember a boy in audience at a panto being called up on stage, gave his name 'Octavian', actor made remark about Roman general, boy totally blank, no idea.

I also think more people should consider the provincialism in snobbery. It means very little outside its own area. Outside countries, even less. In Holland, English sounding names are thought lower class, French sounding are upper. Take a French name to the USA it's often presumed to point to race. Verb or surname names in America can be quite posh, over here utterly the opposite.

@toastofthetown

I don’t think it’s about trying to emulate the upper classes. If it was about that then surely you’d be calling your children George and Elizabeth. For me (at least) I just happen to like names that other people call pretentious. Obviously I haven’t formed my taste in names is a vacuum, but I think very few people think “people will think I’m so posh and clever if I call my children Lysander and Antigone”.

Class obsession is all over MN. It's not just seen on this section. There are frequent threads on Style & Beauty about how to look upper class, endless threads on Chat about which words are acceptable eg tea v supper, lounge v drawing room. It's everywhere.

I'm not saying everyone who goes for these names is a Hyacinth Bucket, some people just like a more literary/classical/flamboyant name, and they should go for it! But I think a significant chunk of British people are always trying to copy the nobility.

My DM thinks that people are more "brave" with girls' names because they don't think girls will have a serious career where being called Kandi (or indeed Antigone) will be a hindrance.

@drspouse

My DM thinks that people are more "brave" with girls' names because they don't think girls will have a serious career where being called Kandi (or indeed Antigone) will be a hindrance.

Given that, until recently, the biggest achievement of a woman's life was to marry, your DM has a point. In fact, we still place a massive emphasis on marital and relationship status. Still skewed towards women, but now we couch it in romantic language.

I think a lot depends on what their peers are likely to be names

It depends on how open minded, educated and worldly you are imo. In London or in other big European cities lots of families name their kids more unusual or longer names - because they genuinely like them.

If other people call such names 'pretentious' it's because they are just not used to hearing these names. They have different tastes in names.

they don't think girls will have a serious career where being called Kandi (or indeed Antigone) will be a hindrance

I don't think that being called Antigone is in ANY way a hindrance to a successful career! In fact I know a very successful lawyer called Antigone (Tiggy to her friends).

some people just like a more literary/classical/flamboyant name, and they should go for it!

Yes

And others should welcome such names rather than criticise them as 'pretentious'

Let's all be a little more open minded. Wouldn't life be dull if we all called our children Harry or Sophie?

The problem I have with the idea that girls have a wide range of names because boys need serious names is that many boys names which are popular are not really ‘serious’ names. Archie, Charlie, Freddie, Alfie, Tommy, Teddy, Albie and Reggie are all in the top fifty for boys at the moment and other popular (top 100) names are names like Arlo, Jack, Finley, Jaxon, Grayson, Riley, Hudson all of which to me seem like more friendly, informal names to me. Not saying these are bad names, just that I don’t think the general trend at the moment is for formality and seriousness in boys names. They are certainly no less suited to a ‘serious career’ than Lysander, Aloysius, Octavian and Horatio in my opinion.