Enola for DD?

[scarletm]

me and DH watched Enola Holmes recently with his nieces and would love the same name for DD. We do thinks it's a little different though! Any thoughts??

I don’t think what happened then is comparable to anything else before or since though. It has shaped the modern world. It’s not like not knowing the ins and outs of Sbrenica or Syria.

6th August this year was the 75th anniversary of Hiroshima! It was all over the news, for heaven's sake!

This is actually a prime example of the problem with the modern world. As I said previously, I love History, did Higher History at school and still read history books and watch history on BBC4. If asked I could have worked out this year was the 75th anniversary. But I never watch the TV news any more and don't read a newspaper (grew up doing both). I usually get my news from Radio 4 as I drive to and from work. But that's not happening this year. So I did actually miss all the coverage.

Having said that I'm not so interested in the popular representation of WW2 and in August I was deep in my David Olusoga obsession and watching all his back catalogue of history programmes. So ask me about slave ownership in the UK 200 years ago and I'm fine.

Oh, and as for studying WW2 at school, we did a bit but in Scotland half the Higher topics were not Scottish (or indeed British) so I know lots about the Reformation (Luther and Calvin, not Henry VIII) and the Russian Revolution (and the impact of WW1 on that). I keep telling the DC their English school history is very parochial although with foreign grandparents they are more aware of that than many children. I do think the English syllabus should spend more time on the Empire and the slave trade and less on the 'greats' of English history.

@SchadenfreudePersonified

I vaguely know a nuclear bomb was dropped on Hiroshima

Vaguely?

Vaguely?!

6th August this year was the 75th anniversary of Hiroshima! It was all over the news, for heaven's sake!

How did you manage to miss that?

OMG. Why would you assume someone HAS to know as it was in the news?? My DC became distraught during lockdown with the bloody news 24/7. My little DC aged 7 became so distraught about covid -listening to it on the news etc they wouldn't go in the garden in case they died. So we turned it ALL off for 4 weeks. Netflix only and I listened to the radio with headphones only.

Hiroshima -been there. Spent times learning about it. History and reporting forgets Hiroshima was a HUGE military headquarters. But whether the bomb was right or wrong -or saved lives in the long run or was morally, ethically or legally acceptable-is still up for huge discussions. Some people say it was necessary. Some people say it wasn't. Some people say it wasn't -Japan was surrendering............. some people say two bombs because US Navy, Army etc each wanted their own bomb and so on -this is the discussion of history and evaulation of the rights and wrongs of the past.

People that dont know about Enola Gay should be seriously embarrassed....educate yourselves! Read!

I'm stunned.

@DangerMouse17

People that dont know about Enola Gay should be seriously embarrassed....educate yourselves! Read!

I'm stunned.

In terms of the person I am, my contribution to the world, what difference does knowing the name of the plane make? Do you think it somehow honours the dead more of we know the name of the plane? I'm not denigrating the need to learn history, just the histrionics over knowing the smaller details. Knowing it doesn't change my opinion on whether it was ok or not to drop the bombs (not) or my impact on the world

First thought was Enola Gay...then my phone autocorrected it to Ebola...

Yeah, I wouldn't!

I agree with nicegerbil

I think it’s much worse that someone knows about the role of the Enola Gay yet thinks that was OK than hadn’t heard of the Enola Gay or what it was known for!

@DangerMouse17

People that dont know about Enola Gay should be seriously embarrassed....educate yourselves! Read!

I'm stunned.

Why should I be embarrassed? Are you embarrassed about all the things you don't know about, and I possibly do? Nobody can possibly know everything!

Getting a strong urge to listen to OMD now.

Enola Gay is a brilliant song.

Far too much like Ebola

'There are 6.2 million people, including 2.5 million children, displaced within Syria, the biggest internally displaced population in the World. The pace of displacement remains relentless. Well over 1.8 million people have been displaced in 2017, many for the second or third time.'.

This is happening NOW. Right now.

And all other sorts of major problems. All over the world.

You're absolutely right. As it happens, I work with the victims of some of these "major problems", including the humanitarian crisis in Syria. I totally agree that we should be much more worried about what is happening in the world right now than what happened in the past. That is self evident. However, I think the two are indivisible. We cannot properly understand what is going on in Syria or many other conflict zones right now without understanding the historical context, and we cannot respond appropriately if we do not understand. That is why history is important in my view.

I agree with a lot of what you've written though.I definitely support the suggestion of looking at a wider range of news channels etc. What we get fed through the British media is very narrow. We are also in absolute agreement about the attack on Hiroshima being off the scale awful.

Not firing on all cylinders now.

Glad the thread has calmed down a bit!

Alexa yes I'm sure we are on same page so now it goes into a conversation hopefully!

I'm not a historian. In fact I hated history at school, because of my teachers probably. And because I have a poor memory.

Anyway this bit.

'That is self evident. However, I think the two are indivisible. We cannot properly understand what is going on in Syria or many other conflict zones right now without understanding the historical context, and we cannot respond appropriately if we do not understand. That is why history is important in my view.'

The respond appropriately thing bothers me. I really am shit at history and that but my understanding is that our interference in areas we didn't know about. Has either caused or exacerbated problems.

And when I say 'our' I suppose I mean the West generally including the USA.

Every time we step in we seem to cause more problems than were there before. I know it's way more complicated than that.

And the whole WW2 thing bothers me. Yes it was awful. Yes what the Nazis did was horrendous. I went to the Berlin museum 'topography of terror' last year on the place where the SS & Gestapo HQ were. It was just so affecting. Had to leave TBH.

But do we learn? No. Even in Europe. A poster here says it's more important to know about Hiroshima than Srebrenica or Syria. I just don't get that. Srebrenica was recent. Ethnic cleansing. Mass murder. Rape as a weapon of war. In Europe. In the 90s. So 'we' learnt nothing. Ethnic cleansing of the rohingya people. Mass murder. Torture. Villages burnt. Rape.

But apparently it's really important to know all about Ww2. More important than knowing about stuff happening now. Because only by understanding WW2 will we be able to stop it happening again...

Bothers me, this attitude. It really does.

Why should I be embarrassed? Are you embarrassed about all the things you don't know about, and I possibly do? Nobody can possibly know everything!

@TheFormerPorpentinaScamander

No I dont need to be embarrassed about things that you "may" know that I dont. No I dont know anything about astrophysics, but I certainly know about key moments in our history...either from school or via books.

I know about key moments in our history too. I know about Hiroshima. Just not the name of the plane. Why should I be embarrassed about that if you aren't embarrassed about things you don't know?

@Aquamarine1029

Horrible, op. She would be bullied being called Ebola all through school. Please don't do that to a child.

Unlikely. The Ebola pandemic was years ago and kids born now probably wouldn't even know about it. Adults might make the Ebola connection, and it is definitely an unfortunate one, but i really don't think it would lead to bullying.

Everyone has gaps in their knowledge as can be seen on the multiple, 'Things I just learned' threads.

Just as a matter of interest, without googling name three English speaking countries involved in the Vietnam war.

The war ended in 1975, so those of us 50+ should have an idea.

@SionnachRua

Never heard of Enola Gay either and I don't think some song in the 80s is all that important. It may be a generational thing as so many on this thread don't know the reference.

However it's an ugly sounding (and looking) name OP so I'd avoid.

Not that important??

You want your DD to be forever associated with the name of the plane that dropped the Atomic bomb on Hiroshima. Reallt??

Wow

Shhh - US and Australia. Sadly don't know the third without google

bellinisurge

2/3 well done, not many people know it wasn't just the US and Vietnam when there were numerous countries involved.

This is such an interesting thread, not probably how the OP intended it to play out and doubtless she won't be calling her offspring Enola any time soon I hope.

What intrigued me most was the defence that posters didn't learn about it in history at school? I didn't either, it was all Spinning Jenny's and Tolpuddle Martyrs when I was there but I've learnt SO much more since I left school, probably 90% of my knowledge since then. I did know about Enola Gay/Little Boy and Fat man though but ok the plane and bomb names aside, I cannot fathom how anyone wouldn't know, even by accident, about Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Forget the recent coverage of the anniversary, it has to be the most stand out atrocity ever committed - as one poster said, it's off the scale. I do find it shocking that someone in their 20s/30s could go through their life oblivious to its happening.

Anyway, if it's made even a couple of posters go and research then that's a good thing.

As to the Vietnam War, I went to the 'American' museum in Saigon and found it utterly shocking, it almost destroys you to see what people can do to each other it really does.

Long live learning I say 😊

I had to look up the third English speaking country involved in the Vietnam War, New Zealand but 'only' 37 deaths.

Just needed to know the name of the plane that dropped the second bomb on Nagasaki, it was Bockscar, how interesting that so many of us know the name Enola Gay is synonymous with Hiroshima and yet not the second one? They're both on display in the States now.

Not that important??

You want your DD to be forever associated with the name of the plane that dropped the Atomic bomb on Hiroshima. Reallt??

Wow

Another one lacking reading comprehension skills I see. The song isn't that important, the event obviously is.

As an aside, I can't see why people are so surprised that others might not read up on a particular event. I love learning about ancient civilizations and rulers - Benin kingdom, Mansa Musa etc. Explorers and world folklore too. World wars aren't my thing but I don't expect everyone else to be interested in my favourite parts of history. There's so much history out there, everyone will have their niche.

Yes but this isn’t “niche” 🙄 is it? It’s arguably the defining event of the modern world that affects policy today.

The song isn't that important, the event obviously is.

What you seem to be failing to understand is that it isn't about the song itself.