Enola for DD?

[scarletm]

me and DH watched Enola Holmes recently with his nieces and would love the same name for DD. We do thinks it's a little different though! Any thoughts??

They didn't. That's the point. We are trying to drag the human race out of lifetimes of woeful ignorance.

I know nothing about the cold war either. DH does. Or politics are broadly aligned. Clearly it hasn't affected by beliefs massively

On reflection, it perhaps isn't so surprising that there is relatively poor knowledge on this subject as it probably, at least in part, reflects the British attitude to the Far Eastern conflict in general. Admittedly I will be more sensitive to this than most as my Dad served in the Pacific Fleet, but the contrast between the VE and VJ day commemorations this year was stark. And don't get me started on people referring to VE Day as "the end of WW2". The reasons are quite complex I think, but there is a definite bias towards teaching about/media representation of the war in Europe in this country and it wouldn't surprise me if the opposite happens in the USA. It happens with WW1 history too actually- for instance Gallipoli is still very much brushed under the carpet, and those who know anything about it at all tend to assume that only Australian and New Zealand troops fought there.
So maybe I shouldn't be surprised, but I do think that given the enormous significance of the events at the end of WW2 it is something that every generation should learn about.

There are so many names that have negative connections... Eva Braun was Hitler's long time lover and staunch advocate of his actions. Doesn't stop Eva being a very popular name!

@TH22

There are so many names that have negative connections... Eva Braun was Hitler's long time lover and staunch advocate of his actions. Doesn't stop Eva being a very popular name!

I think it depends is a name has lots of connections, some bad some not, or just one or two.

No one would say no to Rose but lots say no to Myra. It's about how common a name is. If the only thing you can think of it a murderer or a plane dropping atomic bombs, in its gonna be a no name for most people

I guess but there are “negative connotations” and there is this. It’s kind of on a different level...

I'm really dismayed by this putting the boot into others stuff. For not knowing something.

Loads of people don't know loads of things about loads of stuff. That's fine and normal. There is lots going on in the world, in science, in politics, now and going back forever.

I only found out about the Congo and Leopold about 5 years ago. Another atrocity. An absolute outrage. Literally never heard of it.

I think two people in the thread were pretty meh about nuking civilians. Based on their knowledge of these two bombings. How about focus on that instead, eh.

@NiceGerbil

I'm really dismayed by this putting the boot into others stuff. For not knowing something.

Loads of people don't know loads of things about loads of stuff. That's fine and normal. There is lots going on in the world, in science, in politics, now and going back forever.

I only found out about the Congo and Leopold about 5 years ago. Another atrocity. An absolute outrage. Literally never heard of it.

I think two people in the thread were pretty meh about nuking civilians. Based on their knowledge of these two bombings. How about focus on that instead, eh.

I'm assuming you're talking about me, but evidently you lack the ability to hold some sort of discussion.

NiceGerbil, I understand where you are coming from, and I agree that there has been surprisingly little challenge with regard to the comments from the two people who were - in your words - meh about nuking civilians. I can only repeat that I did comment on those posts as well.

I do accept that all of us have significant gaps in our knowledge about various things in history, and loads of other stuff as well tbh. Life is a long learning journey for most of us. However, do you genuinely not think that there are certain key events in history that everyone should know about? Would it be alright, for example, if people knew nothing about the Holocaust? The slave trade? Colonialism? The two world wars? I'm really struggling to get my head around how you would think it's ok for us to have no collective memory, no awareness of these things.

It is not necessarily the fault of individuals if they don't know this stuff, but in my view, it is a failure of our education system and of our society more broadly.

I'm assuming you're talking about me, but evidently you lack the ability to hold some sort of discussion.

scarmatty, read nicegerbil*'s post again. She was actually defending you!

@ScarMatty I think pp meant the ones who said it wasn't really an atrocity despite knowing about it. She was sticking up for you

Sorry OP, Enola Gay was my first thought too

Also my phone just autocorrected it to Ebola

I agree Nola would be a nice alternative.

There's a thread about Enola over on /r/namenerds as well. An odd coincidence!

Basically op, to return to your question, this name is likely to provoke strong feelings in some!

In my work we have to make what we write understandable to the majority of people. The fact is that a very very large number of people in the UK are functionally illiterate. And in countries similar to the UK.

That is clearly not the case for anyone posting on MN but this stuff about people but knowing xyz is out of line.

People have different educations, interests, families etc. If someone doesn't know X then going 'omfg that's just unbelievable' may feel satisfying but it's not helpful. The helpful thing to say is, well it was a thing, here's what to Google. Have a read.

There is no shame in not knowing stuff that you haven't come across FGS.

Or that is not your thing.

I think having read a lot of threads on here that the old adage of history being written by the winners is v true and why is the second world war always the focus.

Leopold of Belgium. Heard of him? In the Congo. Estimates vary. Between 1 and 15 million people killed. Certainly millions mutilated.

'All blacks saw this man as the devil of the Equator ... From all the bodies killed in the field, you had to cut off the hands. He wanted to see the number of hands cut off by each soldier, who had to bring them in baskets ... A village which refused to provide rubber would be completely swept clean. As a young man, I saw [Fiévez's] soldier Molili, then guarding the village of Boyeka, take a net, put ten arrested natives in it, attach big stones to the net, and make it tumble into the river ... Rubber causes these torments; that's why we no longer want to hear its name spoken. Soldiers made young men kill or rape their own mothers and sisters.'

1885 to 1908. Not long ago really.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atrocities_in_the_Congo_Free_State

And also, why do numbers count so much? If a country of a million people have 100000 killed. Is that really less bad than a country of 500,000 having a similar percentage killed?

Srebtenica
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srebrenica_massacre

My friend at school was from Bosnia. She and her family knew what was happening. The news played it down. Europe, paused. Waited. Prevaricated.
So much for the lessons learned from the Nazis, this can never happen again.
It did. And Europe didn't intervene.

And so on and so on.

The Rwandan genocide.

What has gone on in Burma. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rohingya_people
More than 1 million refugees. Ethnicity cleansing.

And so on and so on.

The human race doesn't learn.
These things go on and on.

Slating people for not knowing xyz... There is so much to know.

I'm not even interested in history tbh. Or politics. I studied physics. Which is why I have such strong views about nuclear weapons.

No one can no everything. No one is interested in everything. And that's ok.

I find the focus on the 2nd world war with everything over here. Short sighted and somehow. Being used for political purposes.

...

And that's how your start a bunfight on a baby thread I suppose.

It's what I think though.

My grandparents both left school at 14, very poor backgrounds, lived in a council house all their lives. They had curiosity about history and my grandmother in particular could tell you all about past centuries (she was a VERY avid user of her library ticket).

She would have been the first to say trying to let people know about history is important. It really does matter.

We don’t say ‘let’s not bother to explain back to sleep for infant health’, ‘let’s not keep emphasising to kids that racism is very wrong’, ‘let’s not bother encouraging people to vote’.

Similarly, children need to know about this and other important very recent historical facts, which is why Hiroshima should be taught in schools. We certainly were taught it.

I vaguely know a nuclear bomb was dropped on Hiroshima

Vaguely?

Vaguely?!

6th August this year was the 75th anniversary of Hiroshima! It was all over the news, for heaven's sake!

How did you manage to miss that?

I vaguely know a nuclear bomb was dropped on Hiroshima

Vaguely? Wow.

FGS can we stop with this.

Seriously.

It's way more important to say. Ok. It was an important event. Here's a link. Read up on it.

This is getting on my tits now.

We have had, I think two, posters say that you know the USA nuking all those civilians was a means to an end. Whether it was an atrocity is... Weellll. Up to the individual really... Etc.

Why not take them to task?

Rather than people who say, well I didn't know this. Now is a time to say >>> here's the info. And hope they don't read it all and come out the other side and say. Well I mean, it's certainly debatable whether dropping nukes on civilians is really an atrocity...

The focus on this thread is so weird. Insular. Unpleasant.

@SchadenfreudePersonified

I vaguely know a nuclear bomb was dropped on Hiroshima

Vaguely?

Vaguely?!

6th August this year was the 75th anniversary of Hiroshima! It was all over the news, for heaven's sake!

How did you manage to miss that?

I know about Hiroshima, I don't watch the news tho so have seen no coverage of it. Frankly with 3 kids 5 and under my telly doesn't get much use outside of CBeebies and recordings of Sci Fi shows when they're in bed.
Not everyone gets their need in the same way. Not everyone forms their opinions about politics etc in the same way. One way doesn't make someone better than the other

But would you agree that we should try to inform ourselves as a society? To try to stop things happening again? If that’s possible

'6th August this year was the 75th anniversary of Hiroshima! It was all over the news, for heaven's sake!'

This year!

I watch BBC news, C4 news and al Jazeera. Dip in and out of sky 24 hour rolling and also the 24 hour rolling French channel in English, forget it's name.

I missed that. Honestly. I don't remember that at all.

It was all covid on the mainstream UK news pretty much? They weren't even talking Brexit.

Which is why I started watching Al Jazeera etc tbh.

Syria for example has not gone away.

UN refugee agency:

'There are 6.2 million people, including 2.5 million children, displaced within Syria, the biggest internally displaced population in the World. The pace of displacement remains relentless. Well over 1.8 million people have been displaced in 2017, many for the second or third time.'.

This is happening NOW. Right now.

And all other sorts of major problems. All over the world.

But yes. Let's express horror at people not knowing the ins and outs of Hiroshima, have little to say to the people who said on this thread that nuking civilians is not necessarily an atrocity, pontificate about how if you don't know about Ww2 then all is lost... While ignoring that mass murder and ethnic cleansing in happening right now in the world and oh look! Knowing what the plane was called has somehow failed to stop it.

To those who haven't heard of it, that's fine. Now you have, you can Google. Maybe watch Al Jazeera for a more global news than covid covid Brexit. If you want. Up to you.

For those of you who prefer to be a dick to people who haven't come across xyz. I dunno. There will be stuff you haven't come across. Stuff that is happening now in some corner of the globe. Would you appreciate someone from a different part of the world saying oh,! Fuck. You don't know about X. Wow. Where have you been?

And to end on a South park note. Nukes are bad mmmkay. Like really fucking awful. And to the two people who are like, weeelll whatever. Have a think. Have a think about why there is a nuclear proliferation treaty (ignored by some). Have a think about why the most aggressive regimes on the planet have NOT used their nukes.

Anyway. Essay. Sorry.

To OP. Probably think of a different name

Sorry monster post meant xposts.

Once upon a time. The 'lesson' of the Nazis in terms of mass murder/ ethnic cleansing has not been learnt. At all.

The fact that nuclear bombs have only been deployed on two occasions, by the same country, and never since, says something

There have been wars since. The original 5 allowed nukes by international agreement are not the only ones. Plenty of countries have nukes. And are fighting. Including plenty of really dodgy regimes. And no one has done this again. No one.

Because it's an atrocity. It's too much. It's just of the scale.

For those of you who argue that using nuclear weapons is not a fundamental atrocity.

What does the world look like, if all of the regimes around the world who have them, start using them.

Is it really, not an atrocity. Not extreme. Not just off the scale.

For those of you who argue that using nuclear weapons is not a fundamental atrocity.

Who is?

Couple of people on this thread.

Debatable if atrocity. Means to an end.

Can't be arsed to search tbh.