Middle name for Casper (Girl)

[quietmoon]

Really want a lovely middle name for Casper, something feminine, vintage, pretty etc.
Many thanks in advance and happy new year

Anyway, having spent perhaps 25 years behing teased for a rhyming name I am disappointed when people make this a possibility for their child.

For every one person who had no problem with a particular sort of name there will be a handful of others who did.

Nobody has ever been able to explain to me why boys don’t get called Emily. Everybody knows why, of course.

Uh-huh, because the world's not ready for it yet. We've come far enough that thankfully gender-bending one way is getting a teensy bit more acceptable, but we haven't quite achieved it in reverse.

That'll be because historically the masculine was more highly valued than the feminine, but even before that the men had to be masculine and the women had to be feminine. We're halfway there when girls can safely be masculine (and have a boy's name, for example).

Just because we haven't made it the whole hog doesn't mean you can sneer at those who are putting themselves out there with what little we've achieved so far. We need more muddying of the idea that some things are for boys and some are for girls, and this sneery "oh, well you'd give your girls a boy's name but you wouldn't give your boys a girl's name" is completely counter-productive!

Ah yes-all those gender bending pioneers talking about “strong” boy’s names for girls, and worrying that Ellis is too “feminine” sounding for a boy. And the empowering fact that once a name becomes established as a girl’s name, people no longer use it for boys. Yep. All part of a new dawn of feminism.

Hmmm, I’m not sure about the argument that children won’t know who Casper the Ghost is. There was an animated series on Cartoon Network and Netflix recently. My kids watched it and it would definitely their first association with the name, although that’s not necessarily a negative thing as they loved the character!

Our baby girl will have a 'boys' name too. Nothing too pretentious but something a bit more tomboy-ish.

Casper Rose is sweet, as is the reasoning.

Better we all just stick to "boys'" names for boys and "girls'" names for girls then Bertrand, just like it's supposed to be. Girls get to sound pretty and evocative - as historically girls names have been - and boys can continue to be associated with pragmatism and strength. Yep, better keep those two categories very clearly defined; yay feminism!

@RatRolyPoly

What happens when all boys names are used by girls for being strong and edgy and there are no non femininised names left?

I suppose people will make up new ones like Snarl, Glint, Pow.

Bertrand's point is a perfectly sensible one. She's not saying that this is how it should be. She is saying that nobody, but nobody, calls a little boy Emily or Amelia or Iris, because they are clearly female names. Meanwhile a tiny handful of people do call their girls James or Billie or Cameron.

You are taking the optimistic view that the latter group are in the vanguard and soon, very soon, there will be another tiny band calling their boys by girls' names.

I'm not so sanguine about this. I don't see it happening any time soon. It's seen as demeaning for boys to have a girly name, just as it is for boys to play with girls' toys or to wear pink sparkly clothes. We are nowhere near getting rid of these toxic stereotypes. If anything in some ways it's worse than it was 25 years ago when my children were babies.

I'm not bothered whether names ever become unisex. I am bothered by the amazing persistence of the misogynistic view that women and girls are second-class citizens.

Jack is my son Casper's middle name

I have a six month old baby (boy) called Caspar (not CaspER) and we always get a great reaction to it. FWIW I think Casper Rose is nice for a girl

“I am bothered by the amazing persistence of the misogynistic view that women and girls are second-class citizens.”

This. And that giving a girl a boy’s name is somehow edgy and “strong”As if girl’s names are not good enough. I don’t think for a minute that this trend is the first step to gender neutrality. I think it reinforces the view that boy’s stuff is “better”.

I don’t think for a minute that this trend is the first step to gender neutrality. I think it reinforces the view that boy’s stuff is “better”.

Yep.

In the same way that gender neutral always means boy’s stuff that girls are allowed to use.

I don’t think for a minute that this trend is the first step to gender neutrality. I think it reinforces the view that boy’s stuff is “better”.

If "boy's stuff" (stereotypes surrounding maleness) wasn't better we wouldn't need feminism!! Christ, of course it's better! It's better to be strong and competent than weak and hysterical. It's better to be where you are because of what you can do than because of how pretty you are. Those are the stereotypes - they are how women are disadvantaged. If the stereotypes were equally good women wouldn't be the underdogs!

Now look, I don't think masculine things are actually better, but they are definitely more valued within our society. Women were pegged as having and being the less desirable things, and society made it desirable to have and be things that men had/were. And thus came the patricarchy. Masculinity is desirable in our society, and femininity less so. It is a GOOD THING to show that women can embody those valuable, "masculine" traits, and it would also be a VERY GOOD THING to push society to recognise and appreciate "femininity", whether it is expressed by women or by men.

But hey, like I say, let's keep those men masculine and those women feminine, all in the name of feminism. And let's police that rigid gender binary with mockery of anyone who bucks it, particularly if they're bucking it the "wrong" way. This is very familiar Mumsnet "feminism".

What a pity for your DN that her DF wasn't born in Aliceville or Charlottesville or Virginia Beach

Surely the whole point is that a name is just an artificially constructed collection of letters and sounds and doesn't intrinsically have or denote a gender? If you like it, why not use it? Just like if see a nice blue jumper I'll wear it?

FWIW both my children have gender neutral names which we chose not because of that, but just because we liked them.

This. And that giving a girl a boy’s name is somehow edgy and “strong”As if girl’s names are not good enough. I don’t think for a minute that this trend is the first step to gender neutrality. I think it reinforces the view that boy’s stuff is “better

Words have a poetic quantity. "Emily" will never be more butch than "Jake".

there are 70 billion Thomas' out there - nobody cares that it's associated with Thomas the tank Engine. Or Sams and Fireman Sam etc etc

It doesn't matter that Reece's actual name in Laura - she is known professionally as Reece and is enormously successful.

As to the reason there are no male Emilys - you only need to look at Lily Madigan to know why. People in general - male or female - want to sound less feminine, girly, weak and all the other attached stereotypes - unless they are actively trying to look like that for whatever odd reason. the pendulum only needs to swing one way imo - away from women = girly, feminine, subservient, nice, mild etc.

It's strange because the more I read this thread, the more I really am starting to like Casper Rose. Despite the negativity! Wheras initially I was not keen at all

It grows on you, doesn't it?

“FWIW both my children have gender neutral names which we chose not because of that, but just because we liked them.”

I bet they don’t. I bet they have boy’s names!

@quietmoon I agree!! Some people on here I think would argue about the world with a plant pot! Tell ur sis to go for it x

BertrandRussell DS1's name is equally used for girls and boys and although DS2's unusual name is used by both, in fact all the other people we have so far met or heard of with his name are female.

Casper is a boys name it's hideous. Don't be so cruel!